Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[Duke LeJeune]

Music to the ears of speaker manufacturers everywhere.

Actually imo the idea applies throughout the signal chain - good sound at a show probably isn't a fluke, but bad sound at a show isn't necessarily representative of a given component in that chain. However the speakers are usually front-and-center in most people's minds, so they tend to get the lion's share of the credit or the blame, as the case may be.

 

[DaveC]

Actually imo the idea applies throughout the signal chain - good sound at a show probably isn't a fluke, but bad sound at a show isn't necessarily representative of a given component in that chain. However the speakers are usually front-and-center in most people's minds, so they tend to get the lion's share of the credit or the blame, as the case may be.

Exactly!

IMO shows can be great for speaker manufacturers, ok for component mfg'ers and a let down for cable and accessory mfg'ers. Although it seems the latter group can make it work out if they get their own room to demo their stuff, like SR and Nordost have often done, and based on the fact they attend shows regularly I'd guess it works well for them.

 

[matakana]

Exactly!

IMO shows can be great for speaker manufacturers, ok for component mfg'ers and a let down for cable and accessory mfg'ers. Although it seems the latter group can make it work out if they get their own room to demo their stuff, like SR and Nordost have often done, and based on the fact they attend shows regularly I'd guess it works well for them.

OTOH, at RMAF I've received Best of Show in the cost no object category from TAS one year and a bunch of awards the next year and I can't say anyone noticed besides my parents. And I had to send my parents the news...

A nice wee plug there Dave lol.

 

[PeterA]

A nice wee plug there Dave lol.

Forums are used for promotion. It’s just the way of the landscape. It’s how the small group community here knows about the small manufacturers and designers. It’s basically word-of-mouth and both sides benefit.

 

[DaveC]

A nice wee plug there Dave lol.

Honestly, I wasn't thinking about it, but yeah, you're right, I'm deleting it.

That's all we have to talk about so it gets into the conversation for better or worse... maybe both? I don't want to come off as self-promotional because it's really not my sole motivation for posting. I've posted on audio forums for a decade before I started ZenWave Audio. But, as a manufacturer a lot of our experiences in audio are related to our work, so there's a lot of overlap in between work and hobby. Sometimes it seem difficult to share experiences without coming off as self-promotional. And not that we don't want promotion either, no business owner is going to be upset at people hearing about their business pretty much ever, and often even if the attention isn't "good" attention, lol. So anyways, yup that's it. Happy 4th!

EDIT: Also, thanks for your post, I read my post a 2nd time in that light and it did seem a bit too much.

 

[matakana]

Honestly, I wasn't thinking about it, but yeah, you're right, I'm deleting it.

That's all we have to talk about so it gets into the conversation for better or worse... maybe both? I don't want to come off as self-promotional because it's really not my sole motivation for posting. I've posted on audio forums for a decade before I started ZenWave Audio. But, as a manufacturer a lot of our experiences in audio are related to our work, so there's a lot of overlap in between work and hobby. Sometimes it seem difficult to share experiences without coming off as self-promotional. And not that we don't want promotion either, no business owner is going to be upset at people hearing about their business pretty much ever, and often even if the attention isn't "good" attention, lol. So anyways, yup that's it. Happy 4th!

EDIT: Also, thanks for your post, I read my post a 2nd time in that light and it did seem a bit too much.

I was only pulling your leg, the bit about the plug lol.

 

[Duke LeJeune]

Honestly, I wasn't thinking about it, but yeah, you're right, I'm deleting it.

I didn't think you were anywhere close to being overly promotional. Dave YOU in particular are always extremely low-key about your products, in my experience.

As a manufacturer a lot of our experiences in audio are related to our work, so there's a lot of overlap in between work and hobby. Sometimes it seem difficult to share experiences without coming off as self-promotional.

In this day and age of high-end home audio as a small (and shrinking) hobby, it is virtually inevitable that anyone commercially involved is doing something they genuinely believe in, rather than just trying to turn a quick buck. So of course there will be overlap between what we believe and what we make or sell. Fortunately on THIS site (and perhaps UNIQUELY on this site), people generally don't seem to assume dealers and manufacturers have nefarious motives.

 

[Al M.]

I didn't think you were anywhere close to being overly promotional. Dave YOU in particular are always extremely low-key about your products, in my experience.

True that.

 

[DaveC]

I was only pulling your leg, the bit about the plug lol.

I know, it's no problem at all. In fact I appreciate it as it gave me a chance to review what I'd written. I try not to appear self-promotional, unless I genuinely feel my product would be in the person's best interest and it's a question that's been asked... in this case it's not addressing a specific need so I feel it's best to delete.

There are a lot of forums with strict anti-promotion rules as many people are very strongly offended by it. Some view members of the audio industry posting as a problem rather than a source of information that adds to the value of the conversation. Innocent statements are framed as promotional and this can cause issues. Also, some industry members can be biased in their views of what is promotional while those offended by it have an opposite bias, making it impossible for the two to coexist peacefully. So, it can be a dilemma if your policy is to have strict anti-promotional rules. Defining that can be tricky!

So, if someone is in the industry and posts something that is self-promoting the result is very likely to be the mods and admins of the site receiving complaints. I don't want to be a source of complaints on this topic, and I don't want to offend anyone regardless of their biases if I can avoid it.

I didn't think you were anywhere close to being overly promotional. Dave YOU in particular are always extremely low-key about your products, in my experience.

True that.

Thanks!

 

[thedudeabides]

So, if someone is in the industry and posts something that is self-promoting the result is very likely to be the mods and admins of the site receiving complaints.




Thanks!

We've all witnessed a lot worse. And, for me, I find your comments to be informative and objective.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Interesting. I was super skeptical of the Alsyvox going in. Two reasons: (1) I've never liked planars; and (2) friends whose sonic preferences I know well told me they didn't like them (along with why). So at THE Show, I was surprised how much I liked them. Dynamics were spot on. Now, I did think some modern tracks sounded pretty crappy, but my take was that the Vitus system and the speakers themselves were fairly transparent to the source. I didn't hear the Art Pepper. Was it vinyl or digital? If vinyl, which pressing? I'm not defending these speakers, and I too question the value of a nearly $90k price tag. But I am genuinely curious if the problem was with the speakers or the recording/pressing/mastering. As an aside, I was also pretty impressed with the Vitus CD player. I thought it sounded great with a number of different CDs. I don't know if Art Pepper on CD would be good or not. Lastly, it's been quite a while since I've heard Maggie's. So I'll assume they've come a long way with the 30.7 because in the past, Maggies wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also interesting are the comments about the Prana fidelity room. I've heard the Bhanas many times and am a fan. However I thought they never sounded worse than at THE Show. The Helios and EAR phono frontend just sounded dead to me. I thought the room a few years back with the Kuzma Stabi M and Prana's own solid state phono was miles ahead of this.

Well, we have an opposite opinion then of what we heard. The Art Pepper + Eleven CD sounded fantastic according to a remastering engineer/Kevin Gray associate, three of us who have extensive record and CD collections (probably 40,000 LPs between us and 10,000 CDs). It was quite obvious that the Alsyvox was not up to the task of reproducing that CD. Yes, the Alsyvox sounded good with simple instrumentation, so what? That's not what any of our systems do and those speakers sell for 1/8th the price. If I compare them to Von Schwiekert or Evolution Acoustics, they fail both sonically and price-wise as all around great speakers. The lack of dynamics on the Alysvox killed it for us. Too bad, I waited two years to hear them. I heard earlier versions of the Bhana's and it sounded very good then too.

The Alsyvox was very superior to many other speakers showcased such as the terrible WyredforSound system/speakers. They couldn't play Reiner's Pictures at an Exhibition better than a 9v. transistor radio-just awful. It was not a good show for sound.

 

[bazelio]

Some of the more complex tracks played were definitely the tracks I wasn't fond of soundwise in the Alsyvox room. I just wasn't interpreting it as a problem with the speakers. I don't think we can draw that conclusion, though it is possible. I'll hear them again at some point at @Bobvin 's listening room.

The Bhanas are better than they sounded this time for sure. I'd suggest the Prana guy cut ties with EAR. I just don't think there's synergy there. Maybe the Classic CD player is okay. But I'd bet the Vitus blows it away with ease.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The dynamic range would improve as you go up in the alsyvox range.just like the magnapan 30.7 has better dynamics than the 20.7s.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Some of the more complex tracks played were definitely the tracks I wasn't fond of soundwise in the Alsyvox room. I just wasn't interpreting it as a problem with the speakers. I don't think we can draw that conclusion, though it is possible. I'll hear them again at some point at @Bobvin 's listening room.

The Bhanas are better than they sounded this time for sure. I'd suggest the Prana guy cut ties with EAR. I just don't think there's synergy there. Maybe the Classic CD player is okay. But I'd bet the Vitus blows it away with ease.

After reading the last three forum pages, it is apparent that the Alysvox may have suffered from inadequate amp power and/or sagging building power. I thought the tonality was spot on but the dynamics were lacking. I am willing to give them another chance. As to the Bhana's, nothing below 42 Hz makes them inadequate for our sound systems (unless one adds a sub) but great for a second system.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

The dynamic range would improve as you go up in the alsyvox range.just like the magnapan 30.7 has better dynamics than the 20.7s.

That gets rather pricey and results in substantially larger space footprint, too large for my 19.5 X 16 listening room.

 

[bazelio]

After reading the last three forum pages, it is apparent that the Alysvox may have suffered from inadequate amp power and/or sagging building power. I thought the tonality was spot on but the dynamics were lacking. I am willing to give them another chance. As to the Bhana's, nothing below 42 Hz makes them inadequate for our sound systems (unless one adds a sub) but great for a second system.

Sagging power is just a theory. If the amp doesn't switch to AB beyond 50W then I can certainly believe it ran out of headroom on some tracks. That's what I was assuming.

And no, I shouldn't need to go up in the Alsyvox line to find acceptable dynamics. It's either a weak point of the ribbon design or it isn't. There's absolutely no justification for $80k speakers to have design compromises.

 

[bazelio]

That gets rather pricey and results in substantially larger space footprint, too large for my 19.5 X 16 listening room.

I think the 30.7 is still less than half the price of the Boticelli.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I think the 30.7 is still less than half the price of the Boticelli.

That’s right. A bargain

 

[morricab]

The dynamic range would improve as you go up in the alsyvox range.just like the magnapan 30.7 has better dynamics than the 20.7s.

Panel size matters a lot with planars for dynamics as the range of travel of the drivers is quite limited. I had enormous electrostats that I used as subwoofers (2.4 meters tall and 55cm wide) and smaller panels (still 1.7 meters tall) for 100Hz and up. That had huge dynamics but the panel surface area was probably 2x or more than your 30.7s.

 

[morricab]

After reading the last three forum pages, it is apparent that the Alysvox may have suffered from inadequate amp power and/or sagging building power. I thought the tonality was spot on but the dynamics were lacking. I am willing to give them another chance. As to the Bhana's, nothing below 42 Hz makes them inadequate for our sound systems (unless one adds a sub) but great for a second system.

What amps were used?