Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[Rhapsody]

It is very easy to pick apart system videos and even declare that such videos all suck. I happen to think that these videos can be very revealing, ironically when listening for resolution. Assuming most are made with similar iPhones, why is it that when comparing certain recordings like Scheherazade, we can hear such dramatic differences in resolution or sheer information with for example string texture, hollowness of certain drums, wood tone, dynamic nuance, hall ambiance and bass quality? These all come through on videos.

The really challenging videos are of orchestra, string quartets, and choral music. These IMO are the acid test videos for systems and I understand why people don’t post them.

I heard what I think were predecessors of these Alsyvox speakers back in 2012. I think they were called Leonardo or something. They were excellent driven by 14 tube watts. I asked to play Four Seasons, Winter. I wish I had a system video of that one: Neville Mariner on Argo.

Hi Peter, The Alsyvox, formerly the Leondardo (Daniele has been working on perfecting the speakers for 30+ years now), are high res speakers. They will tell you everything about your room, your source, your amplification. Everything.

Drive them with a 30 Watt tube amp, which is what Daniele used in the design process of the speakers and you get a TOTALLY different presentation. Play vinyl. Another planet.

One of the flattering characteristics of the Alsyvox line of speakers is that you can use low powered tubes if that is your preference or what someone currently owns if they purchase Alsyvox speakers.

I owned MANY pairs of Apogees in the 80's/90's and I LOVED them (still do), but it was not the case regarding using low power tubes.

 

[PeterA]

Hello Bob. High resolution is what I heard in 2012 with the Leonardo. There was also a large high mass belt drive turntable either Red Point or Gallibea? Have you heard them with Lamm SETs? Vladimir will be one of your neighbors after your move to Brooklyn.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ked will hate this because it's Kondo It's one of my other Alsyvox demo rooms on Long Island. It does illustrate that you can drive the Alsyvox even with SETs.

 

[Rhapsody]

Hello Bob. High resolution is what I heard in 2012 with the Leonardo. There was also a large high mass belt drive turntable either Red Point or Gallibea? Have you heard them with Lamm SETs? Vladimir will be one of your neighbors after your move to Brooklyn.

I have not heard them with the ML2'.XXX. I think the ML2's would be a bit underpowered, but would depend on how loud and the size of the room etc. THE ML3's would be SUPERB.

 

[ack]

Maybe the video wasn't well recorded, but whatever the matter, this does nothing good for promoting the speaker. Better have no video at all.

Why do so many videos suck?

If these videos suck and their owners think they are a good representation of the systems in them, do those systems also suck, or are the posters/owners perhaps delusional?

 

[PeterA]

So, since you have heard both Peter's video and in room, please let us know if the video is representative of in room. on his thread, not here.

Don't expect the video to sound better than in room, but the attributes that you hear on video, the pluses and minuses, are they in the same direction as in room (of course with less nuance) or completely different

Good point Bonzo. Al has addressed this before. You should make it on my system thread because it’s off-topic here and you should ask the same question of Jeffrey_T.

 

[Rhapsody]

If these videos suck and their owners think they are a good representation of the systems in them, do those systems also suck, or are the posters/owners perhaps delusional?

Ack, as I invited Al, would really enjoy if you came down for a visit as well. Then you can judge for yourself if the systems suck or if I am delusional. I welcome your insight on both after meeting me and hearing the systems.

 

[ack]

Ack, as I invited Al, would really enjoy if you came down for a visit as well. Then you can judge for yourself if the systems suck or if I am delusional. I welcome your insight on both after meeting me and hearing the systems.

You may have missed the finer point: no video poster should claim directly or indirectly these videos do justice to an audio system... or else someone's being delusional. The videos are merely a low-tech, low-end, limited-bandwidth, compressed monophonic representation of something, for entertainment reasons and nothing else.

 

[Rhapsody]

You may have missed the finer point: no video poster should claim directly or indirectly these videos do justice to an audio system... or else someone's being delusional

Yes, I missed that.

I AGREE 100% Like I said I just do videos for fun not to represent what my systems sound like. I don't think they are even close. The biggest issue with videos for me is that to me BASS IS EVERYTHING. It's the foundation of mid-bass, midrange and has a very audible effect on high frequencies. The videos I post don't have bass lower than 150Hz. How can someone judge a system if the foundation of the music is not being heard?

Would still like you to come for a visit if Al comes down

 

[PeterA]

You may have missed the finer point: no video poster should claim directly or indirectly these videos do justice to an audio system... or else someone's being delusional. The videos are merely a low-tech, low-end, limited-bandwidth, compressed monophonic representation of something, for entertainment reasons and nothing else.

I disagree with this. I doubt anyone is saying the videos sound the same as the system they represent, but I do think much can be learned from videos. I listen for very specific things and can make assessments using videos. Others do this as well. I know you and many disagree so it is not worth going into specifics here. I have discussed this with Al and others separately.

Videos are certainly not a substitute for hearing the actual system, but for those that can not be heard, videos can and do tell us things about those systems if you know what to listen for.

 

[Rhapsody]

I disagree with this. I doubt anyone is saying the videos sound the same as the system they represent, but I do think much can be learned from videos. I listen for very specific things and can make assessments using videos. Others do this as well. I know you and many disagree so it is not worth going into specifics here. I have discussed this with Al and others separately.

Videos are certainly not a substitute for hearing the actual system, but for those that can not be heard, videos can and do tell us things about those systems if you know what to listen for.

Like I said I think bass is everything and the foundation of music and I don't see how you hear that on videos.

So I guess I disagree

 

[Rhapsody]

I get the same sensation when I listen to something on a set of monitors. It can sound great. Then put the same recording on a full range system or add subs to the monitors and it's a totally different experience.

I listen to a lot of hard driving rock, alternative, jazz etc. So bass is very important for me, which I dont' get with the videos.

But i still like videos. I think they are fun!

I just asked myself well then why do you post videos?

The answer is that I like to show people the equipment that is available at Rhapsody. They can see what speakers, electronics, sources we carry. They get a taste of the sound, but it's 95% to show what speakers and equipment they can come and see/hear in person if so inclined.

I just looked up the Samsung Ultra 21 frequency response curve for the internal mic, which is what I use for recording.

It's -20db at 400Hz and rolls off drastically from there down to -60db at 100Hz. So when I record my videos it's not even close as to what one is hearing in my room. Everyone else may be using different recorders with different specifications, so their videos might be more representative of what you hear in the room.

 

[Zero000]

For those who wonder about videos and assessment using them.

Record your own system using your phone. Then play it back through your system after posting it to YouTube. Then play the original track.

You will realise the quality loss very quickly. If you do it with multiple tracks, you will realise some just come out much better than others but it is very hard to predict which will come out best beforehand.

Never does a video'd track sound better than the original.

I just post stuff for fun, but I realise it's pants. Total pants.

Phone microphone quality varies a lot. And that's just one variable.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am a vocal video skeptic. However, as part of our WBF foray into video (still to come) I purchased two professional quality very flat frequency response microphones which I will use to record the audio systems of WBF members. Once I standardize on a consistent recording technique, hopefully this effort will dramatically increase the audio recording quality of these videos, and improve the apples-to-apples comparability of different member systems.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . The videos are merely a low-tech, low-end, limited-bandwidth, compressed monophonic representation of something, for entertainment reasons and nothing else.

+1

 

[Duke LeJeune]

Three friends and I heard them set up properly in a large room with high end associated equipment at the THE SHOW in Long Beach last month. Yes, they sounded fantastic playing a flute, bass and percussion or piano. We threw on Art Pepper + Eleven and the speaker couldn't handle it. It lost it's composure and remained staid and undynamic. That was sufficient to find out that it is a weak speaker but great for intimate music. These were the Botticelli.

My understanding is that the Boticelli's were driven by Vitus amps which were switchable between 50 watts in Class A mode, or 150 watts in Class AB. So you might have been hearing the amplifiers running out of gas, rather than the speakers, especially if the amps were in their 50-watt mode, OR if the wall voltage was sagging (which can and does happen at shows).

In my opinion listening under show conditions can tell you that speakers are good, but cannot reliably tell you that speakers are bad. "Good" under show conditions is extremely unlikely to be a fluke, but "bad" under show conditions could be caused by many other factors.

 

[bazelio]

"Good" under show conditions is extremely unlikely to be a fluke, but "bad" under show conditions could be caused by many other factors.

Music to the ears of speaker manufacturers everywhere.

 

[Rhapsody]

My understanding is that the Boticelli's were driven by Vitus amps which were switchable between 50 watts in Class A mode, or 150 watts in Class AB. So you might have been hearing the amplifiers running out of gas, rather than the speakers, especially if the amps were in their 50-watt mode, OR if the wall voltage was sagging (which can and does happen at shows).

In my opinion listening under show conditions can tell you that speakers are good, but cannot reliably tell you that speakers are bad. "Good" under show conditions is extremely unlikely to be a fluke, but "bad" under show conditions could be caused by many other factors.

Great thoughts Duke. I am not doubting what SLeo and his friends heard at the show. I wasn't there so I have no idea what was happening when they visited the room, but there must have been "something" going on.

If anything the Botticelli X are not "weak" speakers. They're not for everyone of course, what is?, But the speakers don't run out of steam or are only good for single instrument recordings.

As you said, at times electronics do run out of steam, especially with hotel power. The BX's do full orchestra and pressurize a really large space effortlessly. We had the Botticellis Xs in a giant room at RMAF 2 years ago, something like 40' X 30', and they had no problem pressurizing the very large space with full orchestra.

Again, good observations Duke.

 

[KeithR]

My understanding is that the Boticelli's were driven by Vitus amps which were switchable between 50 watts in Class A mode, or 150 watts in Class AB. So you might have been hearing the amplifiers running out of gas, rather than the speakers, especially if the amps were in their 50-watt mode, OR if the wall voltage was sagging (which can and does happen at shows).

In my opinion listening under show conditions can tell you that speakers are good, but cannot reliably tell you that speakers are bad. "Good" under show conditions is extremely unlikely to be a fluke, but "bad" under show conditions could be caused by many other factors.

I asked about this and they were running in Class A mode.

I thought they were really good sounding - certainly much more agile than a Magnepan but still not as dynamic as a cone and dome speaker. But they also were much more coherent sounding and had planar strengths that other speaker types do not possess.

As in anything with this hobby, you make your choices. No speaker is perfect.

 

[Rhapsody]

With 50 Watts they will sound nice/good, but the system can easily run out of steam if pushed.