Amplification options with TAD speakers

[AudioExplorations]

Yes it's fun to play around and try different gear as long as it doesn't distract from the enjoyment of the music. I started listening to the equipment more than the music a few weeks ago and had to slap myself in the face . That was a first for me but a dangerous trap I have come to realize once you start getting better and better sound.

I do play (predominantly) bass heavy music so for me control and dynamics are very important. I am not sure I can improve on this aspect (besides a second 911) but microdynamics and purity are also important and these recent CR1 pairing impressions seem to indicate that the 911 is beaten in these areas. Of course this could be subjective, source dependant and potentially not at all relevant. I am not missing this currently with my 911/Weiss Medea Plus setup.

Somehow I think TAD's own gear will be as good as it gets with the CR1's. I still have not read any in-depth comparative reviews of these amps and so the verdict is still out, auditioning this equipment in Europe is near impossible as the TAD dealer network is in its infant stages over here and prices are extortionate compared to the US, it's very much a new brand in the EU. Another issue with TAD electronics is the resale value, I bet they would be more difficult to move as they would likely only attract TAD loudspeaker owners and hence the market would be much smaller. Then again, a CR1/M600 combo would be the last audio system you would ever buy probably, but that is also something you need to think about - it could be fun to change down the road (for example I also wonder how a pair of high wattage Shindo tube monoblocks would sound with the CR1's , could be fun to have 2 pairs of power amps to alternate between).

 

[joeinid]

Edit ...

Then again, a CR1/M600 combo would be the last audio system you would ever buy probably, but that is also something you need to think about - it could be fun to change down the road (for example I also wonder how a pair of high wattage Shindo tube monoblocks would sound with the CR1's , could be fun to have 2 pairs of power amps to alternate between).

It's funny you mention Shindo. I was looking at them last night for something powerful enough to make the CR-1's sing. I guess great minds do think alike.

 

[AudioExplorations]

It's funny you mention Shindo. I guess great minds do think alike.

I think we just hang out at AA too much

(had to use that AA emoticon )

 

[joeinid]

HeHeHe,

So true.

 

[Thf99]

Hi Joe, I'm not really on the market for a new amp as I am hugely enjoying my current setup, however I would love to hear how the CR1's work with the following amps:

TAD M2500 stereo and M600 mono's
DartZeel NHB-108's (dual to overcome power limitation)
D'Agostino Momentum (stereo & mono's)

I doubt any improvement over the 911 will be significant, I may look into cable optimisation in the near future when some funds become available....

Joost,
I had listened to an all-TAD system (top of the range) a couple of months ago at a local showroom. While the sound was very good, it didn't really make me want to buy it. An all-Burmester front end driving the Magico Q3 (heard in another showroom) was a different story. I was really hooked by the sound. Another friend of mine bought the whole system!

 

[LL21]

It's funny you mention Shindo. I was looking at them last night for something powerful enough to make the CR-1's sing. I guess great minds do think alike.

Hey Joe...i have heard some Shindo in the past. You might try Zanden monos which are very expensive but by all accounts superbly powerful and detailed and natural...a match for the mightly Lamm ML3 Signatures at a fraction of cost (still expensive!) but a fraction nevertheless. Wavac 805s maybe a bit more powerful than Shindos?

 

[AudioExplorations]

Additional impressions of the TAD M2500, Momentum, Devialet, and 911mk3 added to the first post.

 

[joeinid]

Thanks Joost,

I would love the hear the new Pass Labs XS series amps on my CR-1's

 

[LL21]

I would like to dedicate a thread to comparing and contrasting various amplification options for TAD speakers.

Impressions have started popping up in various places, I have kept track of those particularly where multiple amps were compared relative to one another.

Note that obviously this is all subjective stuff, commonalities in listening impressions may allow shortlisting of amps that generally seem to work well. Hopefully this list can be expanded over time as more people chime in with their findings.


TAD M2500
- Class 'D' gets a hard time with the Audiophile community, as with all pieces of equipment it is in the implementation that is the key. The TAD M2500 is a bit of the dark horse, it delivers in spades.
- This amplifier is purely about getting to heart of the performance with no additives or artificial enhancements, very open sound, neither warm or cool, superb dynamic contrasts. The speed of this amplifier is quite special as well. The 2500 does have soul too, not a clinical or analytical portrayal of music just realistically honest. Presentation is grain free and projects a large sound stage behind the speakers, large scale material was handled exceptional well as was the more delicate Vivaldi and Kate Rusby compositions. It did require some time to fully present its best intensions, though in fairness all of the other quality pieces did as well. The 2500 strengths are power, poise, superb detail, great staging, dynamics and a very low noise floor; it gets to the music via another route. Again this amplifier will appeal to people seeking a greater reality and intimacy in their music, Oh did I mention the bass prowess of this amplifier, it is rather immense.

TAD M600
- These are without doubt in the Dartzeel NHB 458 league.
- Utopian in nature.

The Krell Evo series
- These produced nice results.

DarTZeel NHB 108
- Matches well just lacks real outright power.
- I find it lacks texture and depth, it has superb the speed, detail and dynamics without question, I just feel it has no real musical soul with the TAD's.

Audio Research
- Seems to be hit and miss depending on models.

Mark Levinson 532
- Those looking for a slightly more laid back sound with the CR-1's - an inviting sound that appealed to number of people.

D’Agostino’s Momentum monoblocks
- An interesting pairing; they did make some very enjoyable sounds with real dimensionality plus a good natural pace. First class equipment.
- It's big open and lush sound compliment the CR-1's with grace; it does gravitate a touch on the warm side, but does that matter? My suspicion is for 85% of listeners, not one jot. This amplifier will / is going to win a lot of individuals around with its very special combination of power, texture and listenibility. If you are in the market for a serious stereo power amplifier, the momentum stereo is a must audition.

The Power modules incorporated LA-01 and MB500 monoblocks
- Sterling performance with amazing dynamic shading and sheer freedom from the speakers (totally effortlessness).

Devialet D-Premier
- Did an admirable job of driving the TAD's well (though not at more realistic volume levels) A few rated this combination, a great all round package, though I feel ultimately will not show the CR-1's in their fullest light.
- This pairing did not produce the great things I was expecting of them (They worked very well with the Wilson Sasha's). Certainly not a match made in heaven, I also listened to them on a pair of Q1's, that also did not produce a satisfactory result. These amplifiers are very good, pair them correctly and they will sing.

Burmester 911mk3
- It failed to ignite the real passion in the music which the CR-1 conveys so well with the correct pairings. Fast and dynamic sound, with large scale and great presence: big hifi sound. All the positives, just missing the vital ingredient: an engaging and musical presentation. The 948 conditioner did generate a more open and slightly sweeter sound it again took the sounds away from real music reproduction into the realms of Audiophile Hi Fidelity.
- The pairing for me embodied all that is good about hi fidelity, great dynamics, large sound staging, sweet top end, totally grain free presentation and effortless power. Very fine pieces of equipment, bar none. The missing links for my preferences were simple: The combination just failed to engage me musically, I found it lacked the liquid fluidity of the music that captures the rise and fall in tempo, rhythm, being there sensation and overall emotion. Follow-up: As I’ve mentioned before its performance with the TAD is very good, it does compliment a great number of the TAD’s fortes. A big, open and powerful sound. Yet delicate when required, a very nice detail and tonal balance with quality articulate bass. It delivers pretty much all the traits audiophiles ask for in a quality piece of equipment easily, though as good as it is, and make no mistake it is very good it is not for me. However it does tick a lot of boxes for great many people, in this arena that does count a lot.

MBL
- Not a good match at all, something very odd there

Vitus
- All sweetness and light, not much music. Would be better suited to Focal's

VTL
- With the right speakers can sound nice, not with TAD

Hovland HP 200
- A nice piece, a beautiful natural open sound was instilled into the system, though obviously not obtainable and any warranty issues may prove a touch difficult.

Technical Brain (TBP-Zero/EX mono’s)
- Produced a sound that offered superb scale yet with equally superb microdynamics [JA]

Thanks for the detailed observations!!! A Great Read!

 

[George K]

I would like to recommend amplifiers from the tube camp:
For ultimate power in the bass CAT could add to the game, and for even more penetration to the music I would second the Viva Audio Amplifiers suggestion from the Italian forum that mentioned before.
And to icing the cake the pairing Viva Audio Lnea preamp with CAT monos is a great match when absolute control needed and a sum greater than its parts.

I really think investigating in tubes will light a fire with TAD speakers.

Don't really like TAD electronics only the speakers line but these electronics need to be sold as well. Time can prove me wrong or not.
Also no existing class D is in the league with such speakers IMHO .....and no offense.

 

[LL21]

Thanks Joost,

I would love the hear the new Pass Labs XS series amps on my CR-1's

Based on George K's comments about tubes...maybe you should [also] look into CJ ART amps! Perfect match for your pre!

 

[AudioExplorations]

I would like to recommend amplifiers from the tube camp:
For ultimate power in the bass CAT could add to the game, and for even more penetration to the music I would second the Viva Audio Amplifiers suggestion from the Italian forum that mentioned before.
And to icing the cake the pairing Viva Audio Lnea preamp with CAT monos is a great match when absolute control needed and a sum greater than its parts.

I really think investigating in tubes will light a fire with TAD speakers.

Don't really like TAD electronics only the speakers line but these electronics need to be sold as well. Time can prove me wrong or not.
Also no existing class D is in the league with such speakers IMHO .....and no offense.

George, thanks for the reco's. Do you own TAD speakers? Have you tried any of these pairings with TAD or are they suggestions what you believe will match well? Thanks

 

[joeinid]

Based on George K's comments about tubes...maybe you should [also] look into CJ ART amps! Perfect match for your pre!

They are on the list

 

[LL21]

They are on the list

!

 

[George K]

George, thanks for the reco's. Do you own TAD speakers? Have you tried any of these pairings with TAD or are they suggestions what you believe will match well? Thanks

I have listened many times and thoroughly the electronics which I believe will match with TAD speakers and their character.

Do not own TAD speakers.


Also check Gryphon amps and Tenor amps might also work well

 

[Eli08]

Joost,

I have heard the CR1s with an all TAD configuration. The 600 and all of it. SOund was very good. Fast, dynamic, detailed... However to my taste it missed a bit of body and warmth. It was a bit cold in presentation. May have to do with cables or speaker placement. But I did not feel like I would be expending the asking price of such gear. Top of the line Esoteric source works much better to my ears. My dealer actually felt the same. Maybe Esoteric with the 600s is another thing but I did not get the chance to listen to that.

Actually I liked better the Esteric P02/D02, ARC 40th ann., and classe Omega Monos than the all top of the line TAD gear. May have to do with having some tubes along the chain, with the better quality of the Esoteric source or whatever, but what I heard was a sound as detailed and natural, although with more body in presentation and overall even more dynamics.

Then again that is a full system comparation and not just an amps change on the same system, but I guess looking at the system as a whole can end up giving better results.

I also listened to the Momentum (the mono ones). Not with TAD though. Actually with SF Aidas. THey were good, but did not impress me either, considering the price that is.

HOpe tis helps

 

[AudioExplorations]

Eli, thanks for that, very interesting.

If I remember correctly the Esoteric/ARC/Classe setup is your own and you will be running this with the R1's when they arrive? I am guessing you won't be looking at other gear options in the short term?

 

[Eli08]

Correct Joost. That is my gear. I listened to an all TAD system at dealer with CR1 and then to the system described at my house also with the CR1. TO my ears, my system sounded better...

No I do not intend to chance any other component. Actually just ended building up. The New Esoteric I bought it just a few months back. It is the best digital source I have ever hear and not by a small margin... The ARC 40th is also a great preamp. I have not listened to that many preamps though, but I really like it since it is a mix of best of tubes and solid estate actually. And the big Classe Omegas monos are fantastic amps. I do not think many people have listened to these. People are more familiar with the delta series or even the smaller omnicrom (which are great). The Omega Monos although they are expensive at a 30K aprox, they are still half the price of things like TAD or Momentum, and to my eras are more neutral, transparent and effortless. I did listen to lots of amps before buying these, including Pass labs, ARC, Momentum, Krell, (TAD I listened after I got the Classe) Boulder... Overall the Classe was by far the best price performance. And in terms of pure performance maybe cam in second after boulder but not even sure of that. If you can, listen to them.

At 600 at 8 omn going to 1200 at 4 omn, should be more than enough to drive the R1s.

 

[joeinid]

Has anyone had a chance to hear Pass Labs amps on the TAD speakers? CR-1's especially.

Thanks!

 

[Eli08]

Not with the CR1s, sorry.