Not as much as you think. His main disagreement would likely be that an adequate psychoacoustic pattern could be achieved by other topologies and not just SET. Cheever would likely argue against Ralph on that.
An Explanation of the Term "Suspension of Disbelief"
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Lee, I think Jim Smith talks about ME, Musical Engagement (edited from EE, Emotional Engagement). He does not refer to his goal as Sonic Heaven or Suspension of Disbelief.
I see no reason to bring up the whole SET + Horns subject in this thread. Andro did it for effect, but it is a diversion from the thread's topic and allows others to pontificate.
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For me emotional engagement has always been at the core of what our experience should be, regardless of how we define things. I have had some pretty awesome experiences over the year, two fairly recent, one with horns and SET's (Destination Audio Vista's and 45 SE amplifiers) and the other Zellaton's with higher power solid-state amplification. I believe it matter not - horns, panels or multi-ways, single-ended SE or solid state or above all whether analog or digital is at the front end, albeit I admit to favoring analog in my present set-up.
Lee brought the room and system set up into the discussion and I also believe this should be viewed as an essential component within the context of what one is trying to achieve. Bottom line whether it be domestic livability or a totally dedicated room set-up matters.
FYI, I heard the big-horn loaded Vista's with digital and the Zellaton's with vinyl. I'll bet most of my fellow members guessed wrong on that accord
Onward to more satisfaction with our purchase decisions and more enjoyment of our cherished music!
Lee brought the room and system set up into the discussion and I also believe this should be viewed as an essential component within the context of what one is trying to achieve. Bottom line whether it be domestic livability or a totally dedicated room set-up matters.
FYI, I heard the big-horn loaded Vista's with digital and the Zellaton's with vinyl. I'll bet most of my fellow members guessed wrong on that accord
Onward to more satisfaction with our purchase decisions and more enjoyment of our cherished music!Unfortunately the dogmatism most of the time comes in company of insults and denigration, making it hard to separate them. But the dogmatism and absolutism you are addressing have been just a strong manifestation of a solid preference, something I respect as long it is presented with respect for others.
No, not at all. It is a concept that does not derive at all from audio, but it is usefully applicable to audio.
The beauty of the concept is that it avoids hi-fi artifacts language, and it avoids the complications of the particular sonic cues which idiosyncratically for each of us contribute to our subjective believability. It distills all of that down into a singular, linear, emotional engagement-based spectrum.
Suspension of disbelief is not a "goal." The goals are, arguably, the four alternative, but not mutually exclusive, objectives.
Suspension of disbelief is a metric. Maximizing suspension of disbelief could be a "goal."
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
THe argueing of symantics is a waste ot time. If one has never had this experience called whatever they want to call it.
EE, Suspension, GMIA, Holly F=ck or whatever then I feel they are 100 percent going about audio in the wrong way.
My only goal is to enjoy the music and if I can get the music and myself to intersect at a point of pleasure then damn its doing it right.
There was a time in my life that was easily brought on by weed ( marijuana, hash for those who don't understand my reference) but alas today my system can do it almost anytime I can relax and spend some time.
WBF needs a chill pill despenser and by that I mean what you think I mean
EE, Suspension, GMIA, Holly F=ck or whatever then I feel they are 100 percent going about audio in the wrong way.
My only goal is to enjoy the music and if I can get the music and myself to intersect at a point of pleasure then damn its doing it right.
There was a time in my life that was easily brought on by weed ( marijuana, hash for those who don't understand my reference) but alas today my system can do it almost anytime I can relax and spend some time.
WBF needs a chill pill despenser and by that I mean what you think I mean
I accept that some people main interest is not high-end knowledge or discussion and are bothered for any argument that presents a risk to their status or approaches. I simply object to the methodology of having just ChatGPT to start a thread without any added value by the poster. Probably because I sometimes use it professionally and I know the risks.
Curiously, I do not feel bad for people who listen in a way different from mine.
Nice to see you immediately recognized the weakest point of the ChatGPT definition. The excessive focus on life, concert hall or studio environment that biases its definition.
The willing suspension of disbelief in sound reproduction, as defined originally and referred by audio scholars, implies either representations of our memories of concerts or live music or simply the removal of our usual boundaries in our listening space. It is enhanced mainly by removal of sound reproduction artifacts and in the high-end it mostly intentional and associated to the practice of the hobby.
Always happy to talk with an human.
My point to Lee, Ron, was simply that I have not read Jim Smith refer to his objective as "maximizing suspension of disbelief." He writes about Emotional Engagement, and refers to it as EE.
How did those experiences differ? Both being awesome is one thing…which led to greater “suspension of disbelief “?For me emotional engagement has always been at the core of what our experience should be, regardless of how we define things. I have had some pretty awesome experiences over the year, two fairly recent, one with horns and SET's (Destination Audio Vista's and 45 SE amplifiers) and the other Zellaton's with higher power solid-state amplification. I believe it matter not - horns, panels or multi-ways, single-ended SE or solid state or above all whether analog or digital is at the front end, albeit I admit to favoring analog in my present set-up.
Lee brought the room and system set up into the discussion and I also believe this should be viewed as an essential component within the context of what one is trying to achieve. Bottom line whether it be domestic livability or a totally dedicated room set-up matters.
FYI, I heard the big-horn loaded Vista's with digital and the Zellaton's with vinyl. I'll bet most of my fellow members guessed wrong on that accord
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Thats very condecending of you!
As usual for me you have very little ( being kind) to add to any thread I have read. What the heck its a risk to my status and approach LMAO
The first post made me remember an experience in the cinema. Lord of the Rings, the last film and the last battle scene.
We all know the whole thing is a big adventure/fantasy/fairytale of the largest scale, and that everything has been possible.
That’s when our favorite elf takes out an oliphant in the most spectacular, unbelievable and elegant way and someone in the audience shouts
- Aw, come ON, Legolas!
Suspension of disbelief crashed and burned.
We all know the whole thing is a big adventure/fantasy/fairytale of the largest scale, and that everything has been possible.
That’s when our favorite elf takes out an oliphant in the most spectacular, unbelievable and elegant way and someone in the audience shouts
- Aw, come ON, Legolas!
Suspension of disbelief crashed and burned.
F. Toole on the subject:
THE “WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF"
Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772–1834), English poet, critic,
and philosopher, wrote “Biographia Literaria” (1817), in
which he describes how, in his “Lyrical Ballads,” his
“endeavours should be directed to persons and characters
supernatural, or at least romantic, yet so as to transfer from
our inward nature a human interest and a semblance of
truth sufficient to procure for these shadows of imagination
that willing suspension of disbelief for the moment, which
constitutes poetic faith.” This quote, or at least the “willing
suspension of disbelief” portion, has become a mantra of
the entertainment industry. It means that it is possible to
convince masses of people to accept premises about where
they are (e.g., imaginary worlds) and what might be possible
(e.g., assorted monsters and superheros) and to
suspend their innate senses of reality and logic sufficient to
experience fear, excitement, and pleasure as if it were actually
happening—all in the interests of entertainment.
Do you consider that you should re-write your audiophile objectives to add
5. Achieve suspension of disbelief XX% of the listening time?
this morning spent a few hours listening to 4 Classical Lp's, over 3+ hours 'in the zone' switched between 4 tonearms on three tt's each side rotated. i was flying high and it all was working. constant suspension of disbelief (my preferred way of saying it) where the system/room/time of day/life stuff retreated into the background. i was participating in the musical sphere.
now taking a break.......reading this thread......hate to lose my music buzz to think too much. but suspension of disbelief = degree of music not sounding reproduced. these days it's always very good, this morning exceptional. this past week lots of sports + system website maintenance. decks and my mind were clear this morning so i was ready to get immersed.
now taking a break.......reading this thread......hate to lose my music buzz to think too much. but suspension of disbelief = degree of music not sounding reproduced. these days it's always very good, this morning exceptional. this past week lots of sports + system website maintenance. decks and my mind were clear this morning so i was ready to get immersed.
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