Analog Magik

[bazelio]

How are they doing anti skate. I watched a video 1 time where a beam was used to set anti skate.
I use a SUT and a fluke to measure the voltage per channel for Azimuth. But the anti skate will also impact the voltage output per channel. Do you think the analog magic sufficiently addresses this?

They have a test track signal at the innermost grooves on the test record with increasing modulation. The software gives you realtime left/right measurements. It's questionable as to whether or not this is the best method, or at least where on the track to pay most attention. I don't optimize at full modulation because I know that actual music averages out to something much lower. I use the middle of test track and call it a day. This setting always passes the visual test of watching the rate of movement of the tonearm in between the runout grooves vs the rate of movement in the runout grooves, so hey, good enough for me.

 

[mtemur]

On the download page of Analog Magik it still says coming 1 Aug, 2022 for version 2. It’s 3rd of August but I don’t understand why they didn’t release the version 2 or update the page.

 

[Kcin]

I know RM is travelling extensively and the AM is really RM's passion business not his regular line of work. It's a small operation and he only just landed back to home base this week. I would deal with the distributor for your country that way you will get the best information.

 

[BruceBW]

well? has anybody tried V2? At first glance it looks more convenient, but I don't see where it will give better results, I have been doing zenith with the VTA track and when I get done VTF distortion is around 1% or less so wondering what I get by going to V2? I'm not opposed to spending $250 to get better results... just not seeing where I will..... any feedback?

also, what keeps you from selling V1 if you upgrade to V2?
Since V2 comes with it's own dongle won't V1 continue to work with that dongle?

 

[bazelio]

Less than 1% VTF is phenomenal. I've probably done 20 or more carts now and have not found one that could get below 1%. When I get below 2%, it's a happy moment. The vast majority of carts I've set up can't get below 2%.

I don't have the new version of AM yet. But, I was under the impression that there was an upgrade option for current owners and assumed it'd reuse the old dongle. I could be mistaken.

 

[Kcin]

My V2 is on its way to arrive mid next week.

Rick is a member of our club and he is still travelling extensively right now. Our distributor just got them in and they are on the way to my dealer now.

 

[BruceBW]

good point on the dongle, probably don't get a new one with the upgrade

I do get <1% on VTF (actually closer to .5% at 7KHz and around 1% at 300Hz) but I can't get azimuth below -18 dB so maybe they are related, It is a ZYX Optimum 1? in a Kuzma 4 point 14 arm. I used to worry about the azimuth but the soundstage and separation are superb so just enjoy it now.

I also start with the SMARTractor but think I wasted my money on it. If it was all you had then OK, but since I end up twisting the cartridge body when I do AM I don't see why I need the precision of the SMARTractor for cantilever alignment to begin with. Unless I'm mistaken, pivot to spindle is also less critical as the arm gets longer. Kuzma recommends a range for it, not a precise amount. I had a Mint protractor at one time and that guy insisted 343 was the number

from the Kuzma manual Distance from spindle to horizontal bearing: 340 mm ( 338-348 mm)

Am I wrong that if spindle/pivot isn't precise then overhang using the SMARTractor won't be precise either?

AND I had to pay a hefty premium to get the version that will handle the 14 inch arm. If pivot/spindle isn't critical and I change Zenith once I use it... what good is it?
Thinking I will sell it

 

[bazelio]

Azimuth and zenith are indeed related on most arms. I can get -32dB left and right on my Opus 1 and -30dB on a 40 year old like-new MM cart that I like quite a bit. With the Opus 1, I was stoked to get below 2% VTA IMD ... 1.6% if I recall. The MM cart is almost double that and I can't seem to improve it.

 

[marty]

C

Less than 1% VTF is phenomenal. I've probably done 20 or more carts now and have not found one that could get below 1%. When I get below 2%, it's a happy moment. The vast majority of carts I've set up can't get below 2%.

I don't have the new version of AM yet. But, I was under the impression that there was an upgrade option for current owners and assumed it'd reuse the old dongle. I could be mistaken.

Could it be that the inability to get lower distortion is not a product of the cartridges you used, but rather the arm? I have zero experience with AM so just asking.

 

[mtemur]

but I can't get azimuth below -18 dB

That happens all the time with very low impedance (~1ohm) cartridges. One exception I came across is techdas tcd01 ti.

I also start with the SMARTractor but think I wasted my money on it.

Unfortunately I agree.

Unless I'm mistaken, pivot to spindle is also less critical as the arm gets longer. Kuzma recommends a range for it, not a precise amount.

Pivot to spindle distance is not important as long as you can obtain required overhang for the selected geometry. Mathematically P2S distance seems like a function of effective lenght but in practical use effective length is a function of P2S distance. You can hardly mount an arm on the table in 1/10mm precision of the given P2S distance. That’s not a big problem cause even if P2S distance is 1 or 2 mm off a universal two point protractor leads you to align right overhang depending on the chosen geometry (baerwald, lofgren or stevenson) by altering effective length (if P2S distance is off then effective length is off and different from the specs but that’s not a problem). You should only make sure there is enough room on headshell slots.

I had a Mint protractor at one time and that guy insisted 343 was the number

It’s an arc protractor and unlike universal protractors it’s specific to only one effective length. That’s why P2S distance must be exact. EL=P2S + overhang

Unless I'm mistaken, pivot to spindle is also less critical as the arm gets longer.

No it always has the same importance as “relatively unimportant”.

Am I wrong that if spindle/pivot isn't precise then overhang using the SMARTractor won't be precise either?

No, overhang would be precisely set independent from whether P2S distance is precise or not as long as you precisely set smartractor. It’s a lit bit tricky to locate the pin precisely on the pivot of tonearm as explained by @J.R. Boisclair before somewhere on this forum.

 

[edwyun]

Just got V2 but havent really put it to use yet. Hopefully not as steep a learning curve as with V1.

If you do the upgrade, the package only comes with the test LPs. You need to use the V1 USB dongle and download the V2 software At first blush, there may be 1 or 2 things I like more with V1. But V2 seems to be a significant upgrade. Some initial thoughts:

The azimuth/vta combo seems better and more user friendly than V1.

I like the fact that some tests show a graph of measured readings over time in addition to the spectrum analysis.

Good to have indicators about optimal test tone input signal levels.

Good to have a print function.

 

[kroslos]

Just got V2 but havent really put it to use yet. Hopefully not as steep a learning curve as with V1.

If you do the upgrade, the package only comes with the test LPs. You need to use the V1 USB dongle and download the V2 software At first blush, there may be 1 or 2 things I like more with V1. But V2 seems to be a significant upgrade. Some initial thoughts:

The azimuth/vta combo seems better and more user friendly than V1.

I like the fact that some tests show a graph of measured readings over time in addition to the spectrum analysis.

Good to have indicators about optimal test tone input signal levels.

Good to have a print function.

Edwyun,

I'm an avid AM V1 user and would be very interested in your comments and thoughts regarding the V2 upgrade. Is it worth the additional money or is it simply a "repackaged" version of V1? I found V1 to be a great tool; however, the user interface had issues that could be significantly improved upon. Also, were there any new features of the software that further aided dialing in your cartridge(s)?

Thanks!

 

[bazelio]

I was going to ask the same - what happened to the rumored zenith feature? Or is it wrapped up in the VTA/Azimuth feature?

 

[Rdk777]

My biggest peeve was the fact that you couldn't capture the results in a single graph like Adjust +. I did talk to Richard and he indicated that his program was a spectrum analyzer and thus was not possible to do so. It seems like V2 has added a feature that shows a graph with results over a time frame?

 

[edwyun]

I'd say V2 is worth it. The measurements/algorithms are more stable (especially Azimuth readings) and can be seen over a time graph for some measurements. There are a few tests that are new (channel balance, zenith angle) but many are the same or have been improved (especially azimuth L&R/VTA). The azimuth L&R/VTA makes adjusting a lot easier, but it can still be done on V1. I spoke too early about the print function. It does print, but scaling to get the entire AM screen doesn't seem to work (at least for my setup). Still testing things out and dialing things in.

FWIW, numbers I was getting in V1 are a bit different in V2 (e.g., -31dB crosstalk in V1 versus -27dB crosstalk in V2; or 0.0436% W&F in V1 versus 0.0669% W&F in V2 ) but they are in the ballpark and I guess likely down to the algorithms.

 

[edwyun]

Here is an example of a time graph showing the L&R THD over time for the antiskate test...

 

[edwyun]

Speed test. Can use the 33.3 LP but get readings for 33.3 and extrapolated for 45...

 

[edwyun]

New channel balance test...

 

[edwyun]

New azimuth L&R/VTA test...



(disregard the 60Hz peak, as I was running the AC nearby given all the amps running).

Also note the 2 time graphs.

 

[edwyun]

Separate zenith testing (seems I need to dial things in more)...