Analog Magik

[abeidrov]

I am new to Analog Magik, have gone through the entire thread - lots of valuable information here!
The experience has been positive so far, but as other users I struggle with fluctuating measurements and VTA at 33, which is between 5 and 6% at the beginning of the test track and is much more at the end. I think, I need to play with Azimuth and VTF and go through several cycles of complete tests before doing any drastic changes to the cartridge setup. At least my Wow & flutter is 0.05-0.06 at 45 and 0.07-0.08 at 33, which is a big relief after the results I got from the RPM phone app)
Quick question. If you click the setting menu in the top right corner, you can change the bit rate from 16 to 24. Does it make any difference? What is the recommended setting?

 

[dave slagle]

I have found that if the VTA setting gives high values there is a good chance your Zenith needs to be adjusted. How the distortion changes across the test track gives you a good indicator of which direction you need to go with the Zenith. The procedure is quite simple and effective and I will outline it below.

Measure and note the distortion at the start and the finish of the VTA test track.

If the number goes up 1-2% then rotate the cartridge anti-clockwise from the top a small bit and recheck.
If the number goes down slightly then rotate the cartridge clockwise from the top a small bit and recheck.
In trying this with 10 or more different cartridges I can routinely get the minimum number below 3%.
If you cannot get low enough readings check the azimuth and repeat.
Ultimately you will need to cycle through the other tests to get to the absolutely lowest numbers but I have found that zenith is usually the greatest offender.

It can get a bit frustrating so always measure the inner and the outer values and make note of the lowest value you see. Paying attention to whether the distortion is increasing or decreasing is also important since this tells you the direction of the error. You are essentially looking for a null and since small adjustments of zenith are difficult to do consistently, many times you will make an adjustment that goes beyond the null and gives you the same reading. The changing distortion across the track is normal and expected from any pivoted tonearm. They key that I have found is to set the zenith to get the distortion such that the end of the test track shows the lowest number since this is typically where the outer null point is placed. This is one of the few electrical tests that I have found that 100% correlates with good sound. For those that want to really get their geek on I have attached a plot of the measured distortion with zenith error for a conical and a micro-ridge profile. When you consider that a typical pivoted arm has a ±1° zenith change over the side of an album it becomes clear that getting that "window" of a correct null is vitally important.

Rick is aware of this and the new version of AM will have a test to specifically address this issue.

 

[abeidrov]

I have found that if the VTA setting gives high values there is a good chance your Zenith needs to be adjusted. How the distortion changes across the test track gives you a good indicator of which direction you need to go with the Zenith. The procedure is quite simple and effective and I will outline it below.

Measure and note the distortion at the start and the finish of the VTA test track.

If the number goes up 1-2% then rotate the cartridge anti-clockwise from the top a small bit and recheck.
If the number goes down slightly then rotate the cartridge clockwise from the top a small bit and recheck.
In trying this with 10 or more different cartridges I can routinely get the minimum number below 3%.
If you cannot get low enough readings check the azimuth and repeat.
Ultimately you will need to cycle through the other tests to get to the absolutely lowest numbers but I have found that zenith is usually the greatest offender.

It can get a bit frustrating so always measure the inner and the outer values and make note of the lowest value you see. Paying attention to whether the distortion is increasing or decreasing is also important since this tells you the direction of the error. You are essentially looking for a null and since small adjustments of zenith are difficult to do consistently, many times you will make an adjustment that goes beyond the null and gives you the same reading. The changing distortion across the track is normal and expected from any pivoted tonearm. They key that I have found is to set the zenith to get the distortion such that the end of the test track shows the lowest number since this is typically where the outer null point is placed. This is one of the few electrical tests that I have found that 100% correlates with good sound. For those that want to really get their geek on I have attached a plot of the measured distortion with zenith error for a conical and a micro-ridge profile. When you consider that a typical pivoted arm has a ±1° zenith change over the side of an album it becomes clear that getting that "window" of a correct null is vitally important.

Rick is aware of this and the new version of AM will have a test to specifically address this issue.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Now I just need to find out how to adjust the Zenith on the 4P. The manual does not mention Zenith at all.

 

[dave slagle]

the Zenith adjustment is the rotation of the cartridge from the top in the headshell. it is the same adjustment you would make to align the cantilever to a protractor. Be aware that the lowest measured distortion numbers may result in what appears to be a crooked cantilever when viewed on a protractor.

 

[bazelio]

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Now I just need to find out how to adjust the Zenith on the 4P. The manual does not mention Zenith at all.

Loosen the screws and swivel the cartridge (of course without disturbing overhang). It takes a little practice, and I always recheck overhang.

 

[bazelio]

This is one of the few electrical tests that I have found that 100% correlates with good sound.

Totally agree. Low measured "VTA distortion" achieved via zenith alignment (and VTA) always equates to better sound, and the other way around. Honestly, I think this is one of the most important discoveries for cartridge alignment I've seen recently. I call it a "discovery" because I really don't see it mentioned in any of the usual suspect articles on the topic.

 

[leftside]

Totally agree. Low measured "VTA distortion" achieved via zenith alignment (and VTA) always equates to better sound, and the other way around. Honestly, I think this is one of the most important discoveries for cartridge alignment I've seen recently. I call it a "discovery" because I really don't see it mentioned in any of the usual suspect articles on the topic.

We had a good discussion about this over on the VPI forum a year or so ago. Agreed on the importance of zenith alignment. I noticed an audible improvement that was backed up by AM measurements.

 

[abeidrov]

Thank you all for the good advice, but I am reluctant to touch the screws of the cart, as I’ve never set up a cart in my life and had to google the meaning of overhang yesterday
So far, I played with azimuth, which is very easy to adjust on 4P and VTA. I managed to get VTA distortion below 3%, but only when azimuth readings were between -20 and -22%. When I started turning the azimuth screw clockwise, I managed to improve azimuth to -29 -31, but VTA distortion rose to over 11%! This is not how it supposed to be, right? The better azimuth readings should lower VTA distortion, shouldn’t they? Also the readings of around -20 gave the lowest difference between left and right channels.

 

[leftside]

Thank you all for the good advice, but I am reluctant to touch the screws of the cart, as I’ve never set up a cart in my life and had to google the meaning of overhang yesterday
So far, I played with azimuth, which is very easy to adjust on 4P and VTA. I managed to get VTA distortion below 3%, but only when azimuth readings were between -20 and -22%. When I started turning the azimuth screw clockwise, I managed to improve azimuth to -29 -31, but VTA distortion rose to over 11%! This is not how it supposed to be, right? The better azimuth readings should lower VTA distortion, shouldn’t they? Also the readings of around -20 gave the lowest difference between left and right channels.

As said in the instructions, the key to getting the most out of AM is to setup the cart as accurately as possible before using AM. I had no idea how to setup a cart, but a couple of weekends watching YouTube and reading threads on the VPI forum and I was good to go. In addition to purchasing AM I also purchased a SMARTractor. Touching those screws is the most important step.

 

[dave slagle]

When the "VTA" distortion rose to over 11% it is important to note what happens over the entire track. I have not seen an azimuth adjustment have that drastic of an effect on the VTA measurement but have inadvertently changed one setting while adjusting another. Independent of the cause, you need to get used to adjusting the cartridge zenith and it seems like that is the contribution cause to your high measured numbers.

dave

 

[dminches]

Can AM be used for mono cartridge alignment? The LPs are clearly stereo so I don't know how it would work or if a mono cartridge would ruin the LP.

 

[dave slagle]

The first thing to find out is if your mono cart has vertical compliance or not. AFAIK the only tracks on AM that contain stereo info are the Azimuth tracks so they should be avoided if your cart does not have any vertical compliance. I have used AM with both types of mono carts (W and W/O vertical compliance) and find it to be very helpful in setting up the zentih, particularly with mono carts that have advanced profiles.

dave

 

[dminches]

The first thing to find out is if your mono cart has vertical compliance or not. AFAIK the only tracks on AM that contain stereo info are the Azimuth tracks so they should be avoided if your cart does not have any vertical compliance. I have used AM with both types of mono carts (W and W/O vertical compliance) and find it to be very helpful in setting up the zentih, particularly with mono carts that have advanced profiles.

dave

Thanks for the info.

I have a Miyajima Labs Zero. I think it has vertical compliance but I need to check.

 

[dave slagle]

I do not believe the Zero has vertical compliance and has a conical tip. I have used AM to set up Miyajima Infinity carts for zenith. If you already have the software, then simply un the VTA test and see what the IMD numbers are.

 

[Vinyl Valet]

This from Wally Tools (WAM Engineering):

"Based on another client of mine who had his cartridge analysis done with me, said that after mounting his analyzed cartridge with the custom shim he got the lowest distortion figures he’s ever seen on any cartridge from AnalogMagik for azimuth and rake angle. However, the zenith function (that is currently in Beta from AnalogMagik) is not even close to being accurate. Univariate tests will always beat out multivariate tests for pure accuracy and certainty. Multivariate tests should always be held with some suspicion, particularly when the designer of the test does not share details of the computations."

 

[AnalogMagik]

"Zenith function (that is currently in Beta from AnalogMagik) is not even close to being accurate. Univariate tests will always beat out multivariate tests for pure accuracy and certainty."

Now here's the funny part about the person who wrote that statement, is this his opinion? or has he actually tried my beta version?

Not a single person on earth even knows what I am doing with Zenith angle, and only 2 people on earth has tried it, and both are part of my development team. So this person who claims to have tried my Zenith Angle function test, is either smoking weed or lying, because there is no way he has a copy of the beta version of the software or my test LPs.

His statement about Univariate test vs Multivariate test is not accurate in that with analog setup, as an end-user, you are not trying to determine the absolute lowest values for spec, that is the job of the manufacturer. End users, through setup, are trying to determine the lowest incremental changes, regardless of baseline distortion levels which the manufacturer has established.

Expecting me to share the details of the computations, I question the motive of such a statement. Does anyone own a Neutrik A1 here? or an Audio Precision distortion analyzer? Has he called Audio Precision and complained to them that they are not sharing how they make their distortion analyzer? How about asking them to disclose their schematics?.

Of course, people wants me to share my algorithms, give them away so they can copy them. Right. So if they can't create a test on VTA, or Zenith Angle, how convenient it is for them to dismiss it when they have not even tried it or know what it entails.

 

[bazelio]

Between weed and lying, I'd assume the latter. It's unfortunate for him that zenith seems now (empirically) to have the greatest affect on sound while he can not offer any method of dialing it in that the end user can compare to even the current Analog Magik.

 

[Vinyl Valet]

Please don't kill the messenger. Apparently WAM has developed their own methodology for measuring Zenith error (that tool is not yet available to the consumer) and then to correct for that error (WallyZenith). I'm not interested in arguing these points as I'm not a mechanical engineer: just sharing information from WAM that open minded audiophiles may find useful.

I do own AnalogMagik and am looking forward to comparing the two Zenith methodologies once the Wally zenith measurement tool becomes available. For now, folks can send their cartridges to WAM for analysis.

BTW, the data they've compiled on a number of very expensive cartridges, if correct, is extremely disturbing.

WallyZenith

 

[AnalogMagik]

Vinyl Valet thank you for reposting that, it broadens my insights.

After developing AnalogMagik, I have met many Vinyl Enthusiasts from around the world, from manufacturers to cartridge makers. A lot of them share with me genuine insights and knowledge on how to improve the accuracy of setups. This has led to the development of Version 2, which is largely based on customer feedback, request, and user experiences. I have learned a lot from people in Germany, Malaysia, UK, HK and the USA, and their insights have led to an ongoing development of more advanced VTA/Azimuth tools in addition to Zenith Angle tests in V2.

Unfortunately, not everyone in the analog world has a genuine interest in advancing this hobby. Some just want to tear down.

I only engage with those who have a real interest, and I avoid politics or controveries. 99% of the time, I don't even reply.

As of today, only 2 end users have my Version 2, one is Danon Dan in Analogue Fellowship, and the other is Bing Tsai of AudioArt Magazine, anyone else who has claimed to use my Zenigh Angle tool is not telling the truth.

 

[mtemur]

Please don't kill the messenger. Apparently WAM has developed their own methodology for measuring Zenith error (that tool is not yet available to the consumer) and then to correct for that error (WallyZenith).

methodology for measuring zenith means using microscope. same methodology is used for measuring vta/sra and maybe azimuth.
after those measurements a special shim is made to correct cartridge's inherit deviations and you install it between your cartridge and tonearm (at least that's what I understand). using a shim between cartridge and tonearm isn't the best solution and I'm not very fond of it. depending on the material it's made it will definitely alter the sound. I prefer not to use anything in between.

Univariate tests will always beat out multivariate tests for pure accuracy and certainty. Multivariate tests should always be held with some suspicion, particularly when the designer of the test does not share details of the computations."

multivariate is a fancy word and puts suspicion on your mind about software solutions like AnalogMagik as if they will lead you to wrong alignment. but in reality if you learn how to use AnalogMagik properly, it will help you to make the best alignment, because you are aligning your cartridge using a test record and your cartridge in the groove and measuring the signal. that's how it should be. optical methods like using microscope can not be compared with it cause you are trying to align a dynamic system using static measurements and hoping it would be the same when platter is spinning, I'm not even mentioning disregarding the output signal. how can you be sure it will be best at 92 degrees of vta? maybe it will be best on 92.5 degrees. how can you be sure you measured correctly on a picture you take with a usb microscope? maybe your 92.5 degrees measurement is actually 92 degrees.

I'm not saying wally tolls are not useful. I'm sure they're great for optical alignment and maybe the best in the world. I'm certain that wallytractor is doing a much better job than smartractor. what I'm trying to say is optical alignment tools are good but signal measurement based software tools are the next step.

here is another example:
wallyskater is very usefull for anti-skating alignment. it helps you quickly reach an anti-skating alignment considering vtf and bearing friction of the tonearm but it doesn't put into account stylus profile and groove modulation. on the other hand when you use a software such as AnalogMagik, all of them are put into account cause platter is spinning, stylus is in the groove and you are measuring the output signal. I can hear objections like multivariate testing, etc. actually all the alignments are interrelated and you check/adjust all of them again after each adjustment to reach perfect setup. which sounds better on eliminating unavoidable nature of multivariate cartridge alignment?