I’m using a pair of Pass 600.8 monoblocks with my Sound Labs and I love the way that they sound seamlessly engaging, regardless of the music’s demands. The system is exquisitely revealing of every change in wires, components, and parts upgrades.
Anyone have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers? I Searched...
- Thread starter jeffreybehr
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...these "Pass 600.8 monoblocks" being the class-AB X600.8s.. If the ratio of class-A output into 8 Ohms to power drawn at idle is the same for the X260.8s and the X600.8s, your '600s will produce more than 50 Watts-into-8 (each) while remaining in class-A.. I'm confident that that large amount is an important factor in the overall excellent sound you're getting.
Yes, the front panel meters almost never move. All of the extra available current capacity is for instantaneous dynamic range and deep bass damping. I have never heard such deep and taught bass from any other planar speaker. Although I do have a pair of excellent subwoofers and very powerful amps to drive them, I only turn them on when I am demonstrating hard rock tracks for visitors.
Thanks for the reply.
My error, apparently, I interpreted what I wanted and thought XA160 as opposed to the X260.8. Two different animals with the Pass house sound. But of course Class "A" would again get you back into the power/heat issue.
I can relate to your comments, my lumbar stenosis, plus 2-hips that need replaced, give me pause in doing anything, even plugging and unplugging AC cords. In fact, I went from CAT amps to the Atma-Sphere's because the CAT's were 190lbs. each; whereas, the Atma-Sphere's were 36lbs. each. Plus, if a CAT power tube (32) blew, it's sacrificial resistor acting as a fuse, needed to be de-soldered/re-soldered. This required flipping the amp over. Not an easy task, even without disabilities.
So, once were simply easy tasks have become the opposite. That is why I'm considering solid state. Even removing the Atma-Sphere's tubes when necessary, has become a literal pain to think about, let alone doing. In fact, although obviously doable, I dislike waiting for for the Atma-Sphere's to warm-up, to fully power-up, simply because I'm in pain whenever I'm standing.
Along that same line, although, I loved it, I gave up the vinyl playing ritual several years ago because of the pain when doing so. Leaving them to my son, I miss my Galibier tt, Tri-Planar tonearm & Dyavector XV1s cart and of course the albums.
I've heard superb things about the Pass 600 series of monoblock amps with SoundLabs. I would love to hear a pair. But alas, it's probably not in the cards.
While on the Pass subject and being the same price (I believe), has anyone auditioned the Pass XA160.8 vs the X-600.8 with SoundLab's?
I’m a long time owner of Quads (57s, 63s, 2805, 2905). I’m considering getting one of the larger Soundlabs. Can someone let me know how easy these are to set up? The size makes it hard to do it myself so I’ll have to hire a moving company or local piano movers to get them inside my house. Do the back electronics modules screw on the panel physically? In the Quads these come reattached. There’s not a lot of info on setup online. Thanks.
Each rear cabinet with 'electronics' is packed by itself in a large carboard carton.. Each panel is packed lying in a 'coffin', a wooden crate about 1-1/2' tall by a foot longer than the panel is tall by a foot wider than the panel; each coffin for my M745s is c. 18 x 88 x 47 inches.
At least two strong men are required to remove each panel from its coffin, and moving each panel out of the garage and into the musicroom required 2-1/2 men (me being the half).. Two men are required to hold the panel upright and attach each panel to its base.. After this, the speaker stands by itself.
One healthy man can push them on their gliders.. I placed mine in approximately the same place in my musicroom that I had had used for all of my speakers.. Mine are about 5 feet from the front wall and rotated toward the sweetspot 5 - 10 degrees.. This latter 'spec' is NOT precise, as there are no flat spots on the side of the panels to use with a straightedge.. I did measure the distance from the edge of the inside frame to my reference 'nose' spot with a Bosch DLR130 Distance Measurer, a device that IMO every hi-end audofool ought to have.
All those Quads you listed are point-source type*; the SoundLabs are definitely NOT point-source speakers and present a much larger and more diffuse soundstage.. In my opinion, that and individual imaging are similar to the sounds of a real orchestra in a real concert hall...and I LOVE THAT SOUND.
* except maybe the 57s
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The Sound Lab backplates (electronic modules) come boxed separately. Therefore, they are attached wherever the panels will reside with bolts (very easy).
My previous Millennium (M1's) and the newer Majestic 745PX were easier for a 2 man team to carry. In my younger years, my son and I were able to handle them.
For my newer and taller Majestic 845PX's, after my 40-year old son and his friend of the same age setup up the 845's, they said never again! That's not so much because of their weight, but my new ~8' (vs my old ~7' panels) were pretty unwieldy, particularly when they had to flipped over from horizontal to vertical, to get them through a door. It's a balancing act to flip and then carry the panels while filpped. Having 3 or 4 people to help at that point, with the 8-footers is probably prudent.
As you can imagine, the SoundLab crates are quite robust themsevles (read heavy), include the panels inside, and moving them is a chore. Large plastic furniture moving sliders help, if they need to be moved with the panels inside.
Some folks use cones. I believe small glides are supplied by Sound Lab. However, I used: "Herbies Audio Lab GIANT Threaded Stud Gliders". Once assembled, they make moving/placing the speakers an easy one person job.
For the most part, the placement of Sound Lab's is easier than conventional speakers. Because they're line sources, they can be placed within inches of side walls. The most important placement is that they're approx ~4 to 7 feet from the rear wall (behind) the speaker to prevent the backwave from simultaneously reaching the ears close to the same time as the front wave.
More specific information or questions can be posed to the gang at the Sound Lab Owners Group (SLOG).
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According to Pass Labs specifications, the XA-60 leaves Class A at 60 pk Watts and a X-600 leaves Class A at 50 watts. Thus, if the X600 were kept in class A, would it sound more like a XA-60 or...?
Put in another more general way, while using Pass X vs XA amps, what are the sonic plusses and minuses of each? I know pretty difficult to assess in words, even if heard. And of course the results would be speaker dependent; hence, my question as to how the question would relate to Sound Labs?
Folks mentioned this ad for a 945PX earlier on this thread. The dimensions look really large. I’m guessing this would require a moving company with several strong people to remove and install this speaker. Not a task for the faint-hearted!
www.usaudiomart.com
FOR SALE: Soundlabs 945 PX speakers with full Hotrod Xformers Sound lab Martin Logan CLX big brother
Due to just honestly needing to sell these speakers. Someone is going to enjoy and love an amazing set of speakers for years to come at a price less than the last pair of just the included transformer sold for on eBay. The speakers weren't even included!!.Tested To spec, absolutely no damage...
www.usaudiomart.com
You really need to talk to Kent English at Pass Labs...530/878-5350. He very happily gabbed with me a couple times while I was considering Pass amps.
Thanks for a specific contact jeffreybehr! That's exactly what I was searching for yesterday, but couldn't find.
Unless just passing by and seeing this thread, finding a non-dealer who had experience with the Pass X and XA together when especially connected to Sound Labs, was like searching for a BB in a boxcar. The 2nd. best thing would be to talk to a Sound Lab dealer who handles Pass or a S/L dealer with experience with the two Class types, or someone as you suggested, at Pass Labs.
There also is the SoundLab Users Group...
General Discussion – Sound Lab Owner's Group
www.soundlabowners.com
Hearing the Pass X and never hearing the XA, my guess is that the experience would be pretty darn satisfying, given the many comments about the mating habits of Sound Labs with Pass.
However, always chasing after the holy grail, is oftentimes the bane of we audiophiles. I would like to think I not only have the best amp, but the best of the Pass Amps for my Sound Labs. But without hearing in my room with my ancillary equipment and my sonic sensibilities, that can't be determined. So, the distant 2nd. best is trying to pick the brains of those who have heard both.
Up until now and my present physical disabilities, I've been able to make such comparisons, even the day many years ago, when I drug 4-monoblocks totaling 500-lbs.home and down into my basement. But alas now, my walker and I can barely drag myself around.
At the very least, I would like my move from Atma-Sphere OTL's to solid state, to be a lateral one sonically. With essentially the pluses and minuses of each zeroing each other out.
I understand that a Benchmark AHB1 pair is very, really darn close, but no cigar. Which for the weight, power consumption and price differential, is a huge a win, win! But simply not the icing on the cake I would like to eat just yet. However, for Benchmark's 30-day trial, it may be worth giving the amp moving honors to my son and listening for myself.
However, always chasing after the holy grail, is oftentimes the bane of we audiophiles. I would like to think I not only have the best amp, but the best of the Pass Amps for my Sound Labs. But without hearing in my room with my ancillary equipment and my sonic sensibilities, that can't be determined. So, the distant 2nd. best is trying to pick the brains of those who have heard both.
Up until now and my present physical disabilities, I've been able to make such comparisons, even the day many years ago, when I drug 4-monoblocks totaling 500-lbs.home and down into my basement. But alas now, my walker and I can barely drag myself around.
At the very least, I would like my move from Atma-Sphere OTL's to solid state, to be a lateral one sonically. With essentially the pluses and minuses of each zeroing each other out.
I understand that a Benchmark AHB1 pair is very, really darn close, but no cigar. Which for the weight, power consumption and price differential, is a huge a win, win! But simply not the icing on the cake I would like to eat just yet. However, for Benchmark's 30-day trial, it may be worth giving the amp moving honors to my son and listening for myself.
Maybe; I tried a pair and thought they were boring, AKA noninvolving and nonmusical.. Returned the new one, sold the used one.
Good to know. The difference between detail and accuracy vs musical and involving, is that ever present personal taste issue that we in this hobby constantly confront. Some of which may be based on our hearing acuity, what we have become accustomed to and of course everything, (including the room) that comes before the Sound Labs.
For example, when I owned them, my Lampizator Big7 and then Golden Gate and then a dCS Rossini DAC, were quite different, but quite great in their own rights. Now that I have an EMM Labs DV2 DAC and NS1 streamer, I want for neither of the previous DAC's. That's probably because it ticks more of the positive boxes of both the other DAC's and to my ears, has none of the negatives. And when I say negatives, they weren't really, they were just differences -- i.e., preferences, if you will.
It has often been said, but I've been continually amazed by, that my Sound Labs have never been my system's limiting factor. Changes, even small ones, can make the speakers "sing" (which they always do) for the worse or for the better. However, IMHO, those terms are, or should be used subtly, when truly high end gear and their designers are being discussed.
But again, over the decades in the wacky hobby, I learned to listen and came to appreciate certain sonic attributes. My preferences my be similar to, or the same as others, or not. That's why there's so many components (and as other examples,wines and whiskeys) to choose from.
Each to their own and until one finds a kindred spirit of similar preferences, it's a huge guessing game of: do they prioritize what I do and like what I do (or do we prioritize distinct, but at the very high-end of things), what are really subtle differences, that we oftentimes assign greater importance to, than they really are. I supppose that's just the nature of the subjective enjoyment, emotionally stimulating passtime we're envolved.
Thus, the reason why it's so vital to audition before buying. Yet with @ ~200-lbs, and no nearby dealers, it becomes more than a PITA. In fact for me and my present condition, it is a literal PITA. I sorta' feel I can't go wrong with Pass. But is it X or XA? Or something else entirely!?!
Mrmb, you are perceptive, and I again recommend you talk with Kent English @ Pass Labs; he definitely helped me focus.
The MA-1s only weigh about 36 pounds each. If you do try to play them, they will need some time to wake up from sitting so long; a day or two running prior to making any serious comparisons. Keep in mind that the settings on the rear of the speaker are quite a bit different from those that work right with the Pass Labs.
The Sound Labs have a 30 Ohm peak in the bass that has nothing to do with resonance. This prevents solid state amps making power on the speaker. That's why tube amps, in particular higher power OTLs like the MA-1 can do so well on them. You need a 600 Watt solid state amp to keep up with the MA-1s on that speaker due to the impedance.
Class D amps can be used on ESLs, but the class D amp must be of the 'self oscillating' variety such as Hypex, Purifi or our class Ds (I think our class Ds might not make enough power but some people have had good results in that regard).
Since the sonic signature of almost any amplifier is how it makes distortion, its no longer mandatory for the amp to be class A to get the best sound. Class D can have the same distortion signature as a good tube amp, and be entirely immune to crossover distortion and the like. So if weight and heat are issues, you do have options. Keep in mind though that class D amps vary quite a lot in sound quality so its not the case that if you've heard one you've heard them all!
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