Anyone have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers? I Searched...

[ChrisSoundLab]

Just in case anyone is interested, Ricky Brown's website HiFiOne has been just updated from this week...easy access to videos, reviews, and information :

RBHIFI1 REDESIGN

www.rbhifi1.com

 

[ChrisSoundLab]

Good day all... just in case anyone is around San Fransico July 19-21st, 2 new Sound Labs will be presenting at the California Audio show in the Gold Ballroom.
G7-3C (black oak with claret red) & G8-5C (maple with Baltic blue)
The idea not to be searching for 'blend and hide colors' but rather to show two contrasting ideas for complimenting a room with speaker wood and material combinations to match one's decor and taste.
As the conversation above is on amplifiers, you may be interested to hear also they are being powered by by J-M-F HQS 6002 and also AGD Audio MKIII amplifiers. It's a chance to hear.
I hope it will be interesting. There's a list of details on the Sound Lab Owners Forum.

 

[Atmasphere]

Nice write up of the technology behind these amplifiers is given here:

David Berning Company Audio Equipment

Vacuum tube audio equipment since 1974.

davidberning.com

One striking aspect is the use of switching power supplies, which is usually considered a no-no in the high end audio world.

Switching power supplies are just fine if you know what you're doing and David does. FWIW he used switching power supplies in his TF-10 preamp made back in the 1970s. Manley uses SMPSs also even in her studio products. So this is a misconception that really needs to go away.

 

[godofwealth]

Listening to my Quad 2905s with a JJ 322 SET that uses a pair of 300Bs per channel to produce about 20 watts. Sounds gorgeous tonally but 20 watts is probably on the low side for the roughly 86 dB sensitive Quads. Not sure if these will work on the larger SLs. SETs are really hard to beat for tonal purity. Like eating at a fine Michelin starred restaurant where the food is sublime but you wish there was more food!

 

[Argonaut]

Not sure if these will work on the larger SLs. SETs are really hard to beat for tonal purity. Like eating at a fine Michelin starred restaurant where the food is sublime but you wish there was more food!

By - Amping can sometimes work in these situations , given that the crossover(s) and transducer have the connectivity to facilitate such an instillation. The usual practice tends toward an SS / Plate amp or PP amplification performing the heavy lifting in the base regions , leaving the upper mids and higher to the SET. However to borrow your culinary analogy it can be a challenging recipe in the balance and application of ingredients to get just right .

 

[jeffreybehr]

The amps and separately insulated and boxed tubes arrived 10 July in perfect condition--TYVM Tony!--and I got them running that afternoon.. Removed both covers...

...blew the dust out, reinstalled the inner cover and tubes, and got them running briefly in our electrical-power peak period.. They've been running continuously since about 7PM the 10th.. They sounded QUITE nice* last evening, and I suspect they'll sound a tad richer with the 3-per-amp NOS Mullard 12AT7s I have coming from Brent Jesse.


The VPI magic bricks and my stainless-steel blocks are sitting on the inner covers.. Also haven't installed the Stillpoints Mini Ultra feet because I ran out of tolerance for my back pain.. Probably will determine which panels are vibrating most and install some strips of SoundCoat-the-thicker without restricting coolig-air flow.. I HATE vibrating panels!!!

The SMC Gravity Base and Stillpoint-footer bases add about 15 pounds to each amp's weight; each amp now weighs about 47 pounds instead of 32 pounds.

Power and speaker cables are Audioquest Dragon and Robin Hood Silver, respectively; IC is Neotec's top-of-the-line UPOCC-solid-silver, balanced.
.

* Pls understand that I am NOT a quick-hearing GEA.

 

[godofwealth]

The amps and separately insulated and boxed tubes arrived 10 July in perfect condition--TYVM Tony!--and I got them running that afternoon.. Removed both covers...
View attachment 133679
...blew the dust out, reinstalled the inner cover and tubes, and got them running briefly in our electrical-power peak period.. They've been running continuously since about 7PM the 10th.. They sounded QUITE nice* last evening, and I suspect they'll sound a tad richer with the 3-per-amp NOS Mullard 12AT7s I have coming from Brent Jesse.

View attachment 133680
The VPI magic bricks and my stainless-steel blocks are sitting on the inner covers.. Also haven't installed the Stillpoints Mini Ultra feet because I ran out of tolerance for my back pain.. Probably will determine which panels are vibrating most and install some strips of SoundCoat-the-thicker without restricting coolig-air flow.. I HATE vibrating panels!!!

The SMC Gravity Base and Stillpoint-footer bases add about 15 pounds to each amp's weight; each amp now weighs about 47 pounds instead of 32 pounds.
View attachment 133683
Power and speaker cables are Audioquest Dragon and Robin Hood Silver, respectively; IC is Neotec's top-of-the-line UPOCC-solid-silver, balanced.
.

* Pls understand that I am NOT a quick-hearing GEA.

Great pictures! These look exactly like a class D switching amplifier except with tubes!

 

[jeffreybehr]

Great pictures!

TYVM; I try.

These look exactly like a class D switching amplifier except with tubes!

They do have switching PSs, but Class Ds don't have those cute little RF transformers.

 

[Atmasphere]

TYVM; I try.


They do have switching PSs, but Class Ds don't have those cute little RF transformers.

Those cute little RF transformers are actually the output transformers. The original amps of this type had a 'ZH' in the model number. ZH for Zero Hysteresis since the output transformers are air core and so do not have hysteresis effects or hysteresis losses. The former causes distortion and the latter heat in the transformer. A unique and brilliant approach.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Those cute little RF transformers are actually the output transformers. The original amps of this type had a 'ZH' in the model number. ZH for Zero Hysteresis since the output transformers are air core and so do not have hysteresis effects or hysteresis losses. The former causes distortion and the latter heat in the transformer. A unique and brilliant approach.

TY, Ralph.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Received and installed yesterday six 1960s British Mullard 12AT7s from Brent Jesse; sounds might be a tad warmer, and the treble is definitely 'smoother'.. The system is definitely better sounding.

 

[jeffreybehr]

STILL trying to decide whether I prefer the Pass X260.8s or the Berning Quadrature Zs.. This week I did three careful, gain-matched* comparisons using short pieces of music I love and am familiar with.. Finally with one piece I believe I heard a slight difference in warmth...or did I? It's tough for this tin-eared musiclover to play golden-eared audiofool.

Overall, the system sounds excellent, so neither amp disappoints.. Hmm...maybe I'll simply keep both, enjoying the music, until I get my higher-resolving SACD-playback system running.

* to a half-dB, the smallest I can measure acoustically

 

[godofwealth]

I haven’t heard either the Berning or the Pass. But I’ve done many comparisons of solid state and tube amps on my three pairs of Quads. I’ve never found a solid state amp that sounds as good as any of the tube amps I’ve tried. And believe me I’ve tried. I’d love to give up on the hassles of tube gear. But I can’t abide by the midrange graininess of most solid state amplifiers on the Quads. There’s also a lack of mid bass. Quads have very high impedances in the bass, around 60 ohms. No dynamic speaker has such high impedances. This strange impedance curve gives solid state amplifiers strange conniptions.

 

[Atmasphere]

This strange impedance curve gives solid state amplifiers strange conniptions.

In a nutshell they can't make power.

 

[lwr]

...but couldn't find anything but a question on PCs for SLs.

I've had electrostatic ('EL') speakers...Quad 57s, 57s paired, 2905s, AudioStatic somethings...and other open-baffle panel speakers over the decades, and I'm again fantasizing about buying speakers that create a larger soundstage for the kinds of music...large-scale Classical and film) I listen to.. In the positions I place all my speakers, the ceiling height starts at eight feet and rises to 12 feet over the listener.. I'm thinking that the Majestic 745s...

Majestic Series – Sound Lab Speakers

www.soundlabspeakers.com

...would be about perfect in my 21'-wide, 19'-deep listening room containing about 3300 cubic feet.

I've been HIGHLY impressed with my Vandersteen 7.2s driven with plenty of power, but I find myself wanting a bigger soundstage in the front of my room, and short speakers--the VS 7.2s are about four feet tall--don't do well at that, at least in my room.. What I find unmatched from the 7.2s is transparency/resolution and especially coherency, and I think the SLs' single diaframs* and lack of filter networks contribute higher degrees of those to SL's designs.

I have a couple pairs of very-hi-quality SS amps...Moon/Simaudio 400Ms and Aethetix Atlas Eclipse monos--plus 150-Watt Atma-Sphere M1s (to use during our nonsummers), so I think I'm covered there.

Comments, anyone?

* a campaign of mine for a few decades has been to rid the world of 'phs' that sound like 'fs'.. So it's 'fotografy', for example.. Yes, I 'm weird.

I have a similarly sized listening room to yours and am using a pair of Sound Lab ESLs that are equivalent to the current production 745s.

With the Taiko Extreme as the source and a pair of Pass Labs 600.8 mono locks, the soundstage and imaging is as big and highly defined as that of the original recording venue. The sound quality is so spookily realistic that I never get used to it. The PRAT and drive combine with the immersive sound field to create a very direct emotional experience with the music being played.

I have been perusing this level of perfection since my journey began with the Tympani 1Ds in the 1970s, through the Infinity Servo-Statics, the tube direct drive Accoustats, Audiostatics, and a number of Sound Lab set-ups over the last 20 years or so.

I cannot recommend the Sound Lab ESLs highly enough.

i would like to add that I have a very highly tuned sub-woofer system that I have always found necessary over the years with all of the planar speakers I have owned. However, with the latest revisions of the Sound Labs backplate now in the current production, I only ever turn on the subwoofer system when I want to literally shake the house for the metal heads. The immediacy and chest impact capabilities of the current production of Sound Labs in an optimized set-up has to be heard to believed.

 

[Mrmb]

You really need to talk to Kent English at Pass Labs...530/878-5350. He very happily gabbed with me a couple times while I was considering Pass amps.

Mrmb, you are perceptive, and I again recommend you talk with Kent English @ Pass Labs; he definitely helped me focus.

@jeffreybehr:
Twice you mentioned Pass Labs and Kent English. Prior to your 1st. reference (on 6/13), I had already sent Pass Labs an email (to info@passlabs.com). Among several other things, I asked Pass about dealers for my location and a question about physical dimensions that weren't posted. Why in this day & age, Pass doesn't simply post an actual dealer locator, but rather forces a contact, I'm at a loss!

My 6/13 email to Pass went unanswered. Ok, maybe it got lost in the shuffle. I then found that Pass' Kent English here on WhatsBestForum, appeared to operate under the moniker of Cyclotronguy.

Thus, on 6/24, I copied the text of my 6/13 email to Pass and PM'ed Cyclotronguy with my personal contact information including my phone number. I prefaced my PM with the following:

“I sent the following email to the Info@PassLabs address, 6/13, with to-date, no reply!”

"Since then, folks here at WhatsBestForum have advised that I speak with you regarding my amplification needs and you thoughts accordingly. Hence, the reason why I am reaching out to you via the WBF forum."

Simultaneously (on 6/24), thinking that my original 6/13 email may have not reached Pass, I used Pass Labs' website online form to convey the text of my 6/13 email stating it was a follow-up to my email. Nothing has been received; bringing Led Zeppelin's "Communcation Breakdown" to mind!

After 2-attempts (3 attempts, if Cyclotronguy is Kent English) and over a month later, without a reply; I'm dubious about my original assumption about the solidity of Pass Labs' business model. This leaves me intrigued by the fact that after hundreds and decades of email communications with various large, small and boutique audio equipment manufacturers, Pass Labs is the ONLY one that has been unresponsive!!

I wonder, is Pass Labs business having some sort of problems? Or am I experiencing some sort of Twilight Zone communications aberration?

 

[lwr]

Maybe Kent English is on vacation or something.

I have been a Pass Labs user for many years and have had their headphone amp, two of their preamps, and four of their power amps. I have always bought all of my Pass Labs gear from Mark Sammut at Reno HiFi, but now he has retired and closed his business. Back then, I would simply call Mark with any questions I had.

On one occasion, I had a lightning strike at my house take out a Pass Lab amp, and Mark had me call Pass Labs direct to arrange a direct shipment of the amp to the factory. I called Pass Labs on the phone and they replaced it without any hesitation or charge at all. Now that I look back on it, I am surprised that they didn’t ask whether or not my home owner’s insurance might have covered it.

 

[cal3713]

@jeffreybehr:
Twice you mentioned Pass Labs and Kent English. Prior to your 1st. reference (on 6/13), I had already sent Pass Labs an email (to info@passlabs.com). Among several other things, I asked Pass about dealers for my location and a question about physical dimensions that weren't posted. Why in this day & age, Pass doesn't simply post an actual dealer locator, but rather forces a contact, I'm at a loss!

My 6/13 email to Pass went unanswered. Ok, maybe it got lost in the shuffle. I then found that Pass' Kent English here on WhatsBestForum, appeared to operate under the moniker of Cyclotronguy.

Thus, on 6/24, I copied the text of my 6/13 email to Pass and PM'ed Cyclotronguy with my personal contact information including my phone number. I prefaced my PM with the following:



Simultaneously (on 6/24), thinking that my original 6/13 email may have not reached Pass, I used Pass Labs' website online form to convey the text of my 6/13 email stating it was a follow-up to my email. Nothing has been received; bringing Led Zeppelin's "Communcation Breakdown" to mind!

After 2-attempts (3 attempts, if Cyclotronguy is Kent English) and over a month later, without a reply; I'm dubious about my original assumption about the solidity of Pass Labs' business model. This leaves me intrigued by the fact that after hundreds and decades of email communications with various large, small and boutique audio equipment manufacturers, Pass Labs is the ONLY one that has been unresponsive!!

I wonder, is Pass Labs business having some sort of problems? Or am I experiencing some sort of Twilight Zone communications aberration?

I've owned Pass/FW gear for a long time and have had nothing but top notch interactions with Nelson and Kent. They want you to get better sound, not sell you on whatever current product they might have. They release so many designs to the diy community for free, donating a ton of time and energy while earning absolutely nothing but respect and good-will. Hell, Nelson Pass even posted comments on diyaudio answering questions about resister values for the DIY F4 I was building...

Who knows what happened in your case, but they're good people over there and make great products.

 

[Mrmb]

lwr and cal3713, the positive comments you both provided were my pre-conceived assumptions about Pass Labs. Quit frankly, I was astonished by a lack of email and website-form replies.

Because of a pending joint replacement surgery before my contact with Pass and then recovering from same when following-up my initial contacts, I haven't been particularly in a hurry for a reply. But a month sans a reply, probably means my contacts got lost in the shuffle. If that isn't the norm which I can't believe it is, I do wonder why a contact for a dealer locator is mandated by their website, especailly if contacts go unanswered?

Among other things, I was just doing some due diligence to make sure that their monoblocks would be supported by my 20-inch deep shelf. My guess was that the feet on a Pass 21.5-inch deep monoblock would probalby fit within my 20" shelf, but wanted confirmation. Also, for a possible in-home audition, I was hoping to ascertain whether there were any dealers within my locale. Additionally, a discussion about my ancially hardware with someone at Pass' who may have had experience with similar installations, would also have been of benefit.

One of things that I will truly miss about giving up my Atma-Sphere MA-1 OTL monoblocks is the personal and personable support that I've received from Ralph Karsten. I can't say enough good things about Ralph, his products and his support! Ralph's frequenting this forum among many other's, speaks volumes about his attention to his business, his products and his current and potential customers.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Found, finally, the perfect monoamps for the M745s--PS Audio's BHK 600s.. Found a used pair in NW Denver, arranged to trade in pairs of Classe Delta Monos, Moon 400Ms, and Lux MB 3045s.. Drove up Thursday, did our business Friday morn., and drive home.. Spent about 29 hours on the road those two days, but I'm glad I did--the amps were perfect for 29% off RR, and then I got rid of three pairs of surplus amps!



Got them running Saturday (after sleeping 10 hours!) and WOW!, HERE are the beautiful sounds I've been looking for...rich, natural-sounding music, excellent rez and soundstaging, real-sounding instruments, etc.. Suddenly the massed violins sound more natural and less harsh.

TYVM, Paul McGowan, Bascom King (RIP), and the rest of the PSA staff who contributed to this achievement.