Anyone have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers? I Searched...

[Mrmb]

HERE are the beautiful sounds I've been looking for...rich, natural-sounding music, excellent rez and soundstaging, real-sounding instruments, etc.. Suddenly the massed violins sound more natural and less harsh.

Very good having another option for the Sound Labs!!

Yes, I know, I have a pair of 3.1 Improveds; the 100-pounders I mentioned are the SS amps in the way. And perhaps after I'm rid of a couple-more pairs of those 100-pounders, I will try the '1's.

Had a fair number of poweramps to sort thru before and after I received the SL M745s and just today have chosen the Pass X260.8s over the Atma-Sphere MA-1/3.1 Improveds,

So, in order of priority with your S/L 745's, you prefer the Pass X260.8 over the Atma-Sphere MA-1 (improveds) and the just obtained PS Audio's BHK 600s over everything else you've auditioned?

I then wonder how the Pass X600.8 would compare to the BHK 600's? But I'm sure that answer will be impossible to ascertain, unless of course, someone has actually made that A/B comparison...

 

[jeffreybehr]

Yes, the BHK 600s are the best I've heard, and I will NOT be the person to compare those two 600Watt poweramps.. The Pass amps' 600-Watt power draw at idle is 2-2/3 that of the BHK's 225, equals even more heat in the musicroom to contend with.

 

[Atmasphere]

Very good having another option for the Sound Labs!!


So, in order of priority with your S/L 745's, you prefer the Pass X260.8 over the Atma-Sphere MA-1 (improveds) and the just obtained PS Audio's BHK 600s over everything else you've auditioned?

I then wonder how the Pass X600.8 would compare to the BHK 600's? But I'm sure that answer will be impossible to ascertain, unless of course, someone has actually made that A/B comparison...

To be clear, those were the MA-1 MK3.1s rather than 3.3s. Not sure what 'improved' means but there were the power supply boost option and Caddock resistors. At the time of the 3.1 I think we were still using the tin foil V-Caps. We now use the copper foil V-Caps.

 

[jeffreybehr]

To be clear, those were the MA-1 MK3.1s rather than 3.3s. Not sure what 'improved' means but there were the power supply boost option and Caddock resistors. At the time of the 3.1 I think we were still using the tin foil V-Caps. We now use the copper foil V-Caps.

'Improved' means new, modern output-stage PS caps (edit) with large SoniCap Platinum (Teflon-alloy, tinfoil) bypass caps; Miflex copperfoil/'propylene/paper & oil coupling and frontend-bypass caps; expensive, old 6SN7s such as Tung-Sol roundplates and BRIMAR CV1988s; dozens of Herbies tube dampers; and much SoundCoat damping material on the undersides of ringing surfaces.. These amps, driving (edit) magnet-driven speakers, sound REALLY good.. They, along with MANY hi-power solidstate amps, did NOT sound so good driving the M745s.

Again, Ralph, thank you very much for all your help over the years.

EDIT: The note on the MA-1s is too short asd somewhat unfair.. The MA-1s probably are the best-sounding amps when driving 'magnet-powered' speakers I've ever experienced.. The last 'MP' speakersystem I drove with them were the V-steen 7.2s (with appropriate highpass filter).. Then I bought the Aesthetix Atlas E.s, which began my 'modern-era' of churning poweramps, looking for the 'magic'.. Never found a better amp* driving the 7.2, but then the SoundLabs arrived and I sort of started over.

* One amp I never fell in love with driving their mates, the 7.2s, were the V-steen HPA-M7s.. When the quad (2 speakers, 2 amps) arrived at the house, I listenened to that combo for a month or 2, but they never grabbed me by the heart.. Probably they'd sound better than that if I tried them currently, but that's not going to happen until someone makes this chubby 80YO a purchase offer.
==============================
FWIW, I've evolved a way for me to place 100-plus-pound amps atop the loboy, so at least I don't need to call someone to help.. Also, I've ordered a quad of IsoAcoustic Orea Bordeauxes for the significantly heavier fronts of the '600s (2 per amp) while using two-per-amp Orea Indigos at the rears.

 

[Atmasphere]

'Improved' means new, modern output-stage PS caps, Miflex copperfoil/'propylene/paper & oil coupling and frontend-bypass caps, expensive, old 6SN7s such as Tung-Sol roundplates and BRIMAR CV1988s, dozens of Herbies tube dampers, and much SoundCoat damping material on the undersides of ringing surfaces.. These amps, driving moving-coil speakers, sound REALLY good.. They, along with MANY hi-power solidstate amps, did NOT sound so good driving the M745s.

Again, Ralph, thank you very much for all your help over the years.

FWIW, Tung-Sol had a problem with distortion in their early 6SN7s. You can see it in the linearity curves they published at the time.
We found that the characteristics of the 6SN7s had an enormous effect on the distortion the amp makes depending on where they were placed in the Voltage amplifier circuit. Of course the control settings on the backplate for a zero feedback tube amp will be quite different from those that are ideal for something solid state.

 

[godofwealth]

Sadly, one of my SET amplifiers bit the dust yesterday. It’s a JJ 322 that uses a parallel pair of 300B tubes to generate about 20 watts. I was using it with a quartet of pricey WE 300Bs (reissues). About a couple of hours into my listening session, there was a loud bang and some smoke! I thought one of my 300Bs died. Nope, they all test perfectly on my Amplitrex. It’s the amp and I’ve boxed it up now. Does anyone fix SETs? It’s really heavy, around 95 pounds. Really well made. Sounds marvelous. Too bad.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Sadly, one of my SET amplifiers bit the dust yesterday. It’s a JJ 322 that uses a parallel pair of 300B tubes to generate about 20 watts. I was using it with a quartet of pricey WE 300Bs (reissues). About a couple of hours into my listening session, there was a loud bang and some smoke! I thought one of my 300Bs died. Nope, they all test perfectly on my Amplitrex. It’s the amp and I’ve boxed it up now. Does anyone fix SETs? It’s really heavy, around 95 pounds. Really well made. Sounds marvelous. Too bad.

Doesn't JJ service them? Surely the amp is worth a good bit more than the cost of shipping back and forth from Europe? Or is there a US importer?

 

[godofwealth]

It would probably cost way too much to ship something this heavy to the Czech Republic where JJ is based. I’ve heard that George Meyer in LA repairs all types of vintage and modern high end audio. Anyone use them?

George Meyer AV | Unparalleled Audio & Video Repair

Specializing in High End Audio & Video Repairs George Meyer AV provides an unparalleled quality of care when repairing audio equipment. As audiophiles ourselves, our staff caters to the true audio enthusiast who has a genuine interest in quality equipment. While the term "high end audio" often...

www.georgemeyer-av.com

 

[Atmasphere]

Does anyone fix SETs?

Of course! Other than the weight they are very easy to service.

 

[godofwealth]

Ok, George Meyer AV said they could try to repair my JJ SET. Packed up the 100-pound beastie. It will go out tomorrow. Lot easier to ship to LA than the Czech Republic. It’s a gorgeous sounding amp, so hopefully they can bring it back to life.

 

[jeffreybehr]

OK, back to SoundLabs; god..., I hope you get your amp running again.

My system still sounds excellent, maybe slightly better the more hours it gets*.. I've had a couple different 6DJ8 tube types in the BHK600s--NOS BRIMARs and now Mazda-labeled Amperex (Herleen) ECC88s; more on those later.

Have been considering replacing my Rythmik 18"-driver subwoofers** with dual-12" GoldenEar SuperSub XXLs...

SuperSub XXL | GoldenEar

SuperSub XXL Overview Housed within the gorgeous piano-gloss black enclosure are two horizontally-opposed 12˝ ultra-long-throw active drivers and two vertically-opposed 15˝ x 13˝ planar back-wave-driven radiators, driven by a 1600 watt Class D Digital amplifier. This dual-plane, patented*...

www.goldenear.com

...mostly to open some room in the back corners of my musicroom but also to get the more of the system's bass in front of me.. The reviews of these were universally positive and the price is RIGHT.. I think this will also allow me to reduce the bass-level control of the SLs from +3 to zero, thereby increasing dynamic range a little.

Also have ordered two cartons of 4-each diffusors to replace the 5'x3'x6" fiberglass-filled panels behind the speakers on the front wall.

Multifuser DC3 - Vicoustic

Acoustic diffuser panel that provides reflection on vertical and horizontal planes, for sound diffusion in walls and ceilings

vicoustic.com

My room is a little too 'soft' sounding, and I think diffusing rather than absorbing the rear mid- and high frequencies will make it a little more lively.

Will also be eliminating three pieces of equpment--the two Passes and the CC speaker--from the loboy, and the loboy itself.. The three remaining amps will be placed on two (and eventually just one) 1.2" marble slabs where the loboy is now.

A personal note--managed to fall onto my back and right shoulder (and head on the rounded base of a SoundLab) Thursday afternoon.. That shoulder has an artificial joint, and I thought I broke it.. Had it X-Rayed Friday and they found nothing broken, so maybe it's just a pulled muscle or something like that.. Fortunately it doesn't hurt while hanging straight down.. Will be seeing my shoulder surgeon ASAP.. But there went my ability to move anything weighing more than a few pounds.

* Had a VERY-emotionally-rewarding listen to the Rachmaninoff Sym. 2 (Ivan Fischer and Budapest Fest. O. on Channel Classics multichannel SACD) the other night.. WOW did that music sound goooood!

** These are driven by the stereo-L/R channels and not the '.1' channels.

 

[godofwealth]

With my La Scalas, I use a pair of large REL Gibraltar Mk2 subbass systems, as REL calls them since they have plenty of output below 20 Hz. They have a convenient remote control. Crossover is set very low, around 30 Hz and the levels are quite low as well. They largely add ambience and they’re the only sub I have used that I have liked. The standard home theater bass systems I’ve tried are too grotesque sounding to be useful for music. Interestingly I live close to the Velodyne headquarters, but they’re largely focused now on making LiDAR sensors for autonomous cars.

 

[Atmasphere]

OK, back to SoundLabs; god..., I hope you get your amp running again.

My system still sounds excellent, maybe slightly better the more hours it gets*.. I've had a couple different 6DJ8 tube types in the BHK600s--NOS BRIMARs and now Mazda-labeled Amperex (Herleen) ECC88s; more on those later.

Have been considering replacing my Rythmik 18"-driver subwoofers** with dual-12" GoldenEar SuperSub XXLs...

SuperSub XXL | GoldenEar

SuperSub XXL Overview Housed within the gorgeous piano-gloss black enclosure are two horizontally-opposed 12˝ ultra-long-throw active drivers and two vertically-opposed 15˝ x 13˝ planar back-wave-driven radiators, driven by a 1600 watt Class D Digital amplifier. This dual-plane, patented*...

www.goldenear.com

[snip]
A personal note--managed to fall onto my back and right shoulder (and head on the rounded base of a SoundLab) Thursday afternoon.. That shoulder has an artificial joint, and I thought I broke it.. Had it X-Rayed Friday and they found nothing broken, so maybe it's just a pulled muscle or something like that.. Fortunately it doesn't hurt while hanging straight down.. Will be seeing my shoulder surgeon ASAP.. But there went my ability to move anything weighing more than a few pounds.

If you get the GoldenEar subs, place them in such a way that a corner of the box (rather than a driver since it has dual drivers facing out of each end of the enclosure) faces the wall behind it. This will help reduce standing waves in the room quite a lot. They are very effective powered subs! Not sure of their dynamic range yet but the design really works stellar otherwise.

I hope your shoulder is feeling better soon!

 

[jeffreybehr]

If you get the GoldenEar subs, place them in such a way that a corner of the box (rather than a driver since it has dual drivers facing out of each end of the enclosure) faces the wall behind it. This will help reduce standing waves in the room quite a lot. They are very effective powered subs! Not sure of their dynamic range yet but the design really works stellar otherwise.

I hope your shoulder is feeling better soon!

Thank you, Ralph; the pain is WAY down and mobility WAY up in the two weeks since landing on it.. Wednesday the 28th the surgeon will replace a broken plastic ring in the joint during an out-patient procedure.

The GE SSs arrived today, one day earlier than our appointment for that.. Good thing the driver was insistent at knocking on our door; I was still sleeping--I stay up and get up late.

I plan to place the SWs on the front wall.. That 'points' the finished faces of the SWs at the listener and the amps against the front wall; of course each will be firing left and right.. I wish the 45-degree-angled 'corners' of the front of the room were bare, but both have large bookcases against them.. I hope after I get rid of the surplus equipment in the room that I'll be able to move some of the big bookcases off those walls, but that could be years away.

I adjust my SWs to generate some power in the 1-1/2 octaves from around 14Hz to around 40 Hz; even with setting the level low, the Rythmik 18"-inch F-18 SWs...

Rythmik Audio • 18" servo subwoofer F18

...do that very well, but they're simply too big now with all the other stuff in the musicroom.

I've removed the 6'x3'x6" damping panels from the left and right of the front wall and have temporarily stacked four 24" square Vicoustic DC3 diffusion tiles by merely leaning them against the wall; I expect that removing the damping panels will enliven the room a little.



It NEVER ends...

 

[Atmasphere]

I plan to place the SWs on the front wall.. That 'points' the finished faces of the SWs at the listener and the amps against the front wall; of course each will be firing left and right.. I wish the 45-degree-angled 'corners' of the front of the room were bare, but both have large bookcases against them.. I hope after I get rid of the surplus equipment in the room that I'll be able to move some of the big bookcases off those walls, but that could be years away.

[snip]


It NEVER ends...

It never does...

Just remember to try angling the subs anyway regardless of a bookshelf or the like. By doing this I was able to make one sub work quite well nearly everywhere in the room.

 

[Christopher H]

The Majestic 745s arrived last week and have been running since Saturday (May 18) evening.. Currently driving them with my PS Audio M1200s, and the combination already sounds VERY nice.
View attachment 131467
Have much clean-up and some furniture-rearranging to do, and I wish I'd ordered 30"-wide versions, but what's here is staying.. While sounding very resolved and natural, the system now creates a soundstage that is about as tall as the speakers...duh!...and the spaciousness is greater, both of which I LOVE.

More later.

Hey there! Congratulations on the most excellent system. I currently own Wilson WP7s, driven by the M1200s, and accompanied by a pair of REL Carbon Specials. I've wanted to own a pair of SLs nearly as long as I can remember being passionate about high end audio. Would you mind sharing your experiences when driving your M745s with the M1200s? Thanks in advance!! - Happy listening...

 

[jeffreybehr]

Hey there! Congratulations on the most excellent system. I currently own Wilson WP7s, driven by the M1200s, and accompanied by a pair of REL Carbon Specials. I've wanted to own a pair of SLs nearly as long as I can remember being passionate about high end audio. Would you mind sharing your experiences when driving your M745s with the M1200s? Thanks in advance!! - Happy listening...

TY.

Well, the M1200s just didn't sound as excellent as I hoped they would--no better but also no worse than their half-dozen predecessors--but after all, only TWO poweramps of the dozen or so I tried*, did.. The Pass X260.8s were a wake-up for me, sounding much smoother while still being very highly resolving and musically warm and appealing, and the PS Audio M600s sounded that much better than the Passes, with more of that sense of ease first heard thru the Passes**.. The PSA M600s are my long-time keepers, especially since this fixed-income retiree has spent this and next year's discretionary income.

* Recommended retail prices ranged to $30K per pair.

** Golden-Eared Audiofiles, please help me here.. Being only a 'bronze-eared' musiclover, it's difficult for me to charaterize this excellence that both the Passes and, to a greater degree, the M600s have.. It seems to me a sense of ease...effortlessness...that these two amps have that the others don't.. The others sound as if they're working hard to overcome the SoundLabs' huge capacitance/impedance swings, whereas the Passes and PS Audios just play ALL the music with great ease, finesse, and beauty.. To be sure we all understand, both the Pass X260.8s and the PS Audio M600s have this sonic character, but the M600s clearly have significantly more of it than the Passes, and I LOVE it!

 

[godofwealth]

Just got a pair of ARC 750SEs that had been never used. It’s the biggest baddest tube amp I’ve owned in 35+ years and the most beautifully built. It weighs an enormous amount and nicely heats up one end of my listening room. Shakes my Quad 2905 like a bull mastiff shakes a squirrel, shrugging off the Quad’s crazy impedance swings! But ARC recommends a 600-hour break in so it will be a few months before I get to grips with its (lack of) sound. Initial impressions? It's fast, dynamic, and simply the most transparent tube amp I’ve heard. Can’t wait to hear it on my forthcoming SL G9-7c due to be delivered later this month.

 

[jeffreybehr]

With one month containing about 720 hours, why will getting 600 hours on your amps require 'a few months'?

 

[godofwealth]

Figure on average a listening session of 3 hours a day, 100 hours a month,…