Apogee Full range

[christoph]

Hello David

There's also placement to consider with this configuration, what's good for the goose is bad for the gander. I.e., when you optimize room placement for the panels the subs have issues and where the subs should be in the room the panels won't work right. It's a no win situation with this speaker.

That's one of the reasons I DON'T use the integrated sub with my Studio Grands
The completely different radiation patterns of the panels and the subs are always clearly audible and the subs in the Studio Grands are really caca!!
The reasons I don't ditch the subs entirely is my lack of time and energy to come up with an idea for good looking and sturdy stands as well as to find out about the x-over to rebuild the x-over.
Maybe if I stumble over the schematics of the x-over, I will have one built with much better parts, sometime...

 

[Purite Audio]

Hello David



That's one of the reasons I DON'T use the integrated sub with my Studio Grands
The completely different radiation patterns of the panels and the subs are always clearly audible and the subs in the Studio Grands are really caca!!
The reasons I don't ditch the subs entirely is my lack of time and energy to come up with an idea for good looking and sturdy stands as well as to find out about the x-over to rebuild the x-over.
Maybe if I stumble over the schematics of the x-over, I will have one built with much better parts, sometime...

Bass is always go to be omnidirectional, but if you integrate the subs properly you will not hear any disparity.
Keith.

 

[Zero000]

Bass is always go to be omnidirectional, but if you integrate the subs properly you will not hear any disparity.
Keith.

You mean just like you can't hear a complete disparity between the Liszt horns and the conventional drivers within said speaker?

 

[Purite Audio]

You mean just like you can't hear a complete disparity between the Liszt horns and the conventional drivers within said speaker?

No only you can hear that Justin, think about what sound is.
Keith

 

[bonzo75]

No only you can hear that Justin, think about what sound is.
Keith

I can hear it too, big time - they are not the only ones though, also duos and Acapellas

 

[Purite Audio]

I can hear it too, big time

In the same way the sound from stats is 'fast and agile' ,and the sound from metal tweeters is metallic?

Keith

 

[ddk]

Hello David



That's one of the reasons I DON'T use the integrated sub with my Studio Grands
The completely different radiation patterns of the panels and the subs are always clearly audible and the subs in the Studio Grands are really caca!!
The reasons I don't ditch the subs entirely is my lack of time and energy to come up with an idea for good looking and sturdy stands as well as to find out about the x-over to rebuild the x-over.
Maybe if I stumble over the schematics of the x-over, I will have one built with much better parts, sometime...

Hi Christoph,
That's the best way to use them, pure ribbon! I know what you mean regarding the base but you live in Europe, continent of beautiful design! Look around for an industrial designer or local architect, they'll come with something minimalist and attractive. The electronics are another problem... Maybe this guy can help, he has the Grand's schematics posted on his page.

http://www.orner-stepp.com/bill/lostmanuals/

david

 

[thekong]

Sound Anchors used to made a stand for the Stages, similar to this: http://soundanchors.com/products/2053/martin-logan-stand

Of course, more carefully design is needed for the Studio Grand or Duetta to prevent them from tipping over!

 

[Zero000]

In the same way the sound from stats is 'fast and agile' ,and the sound from metal tweeters is metallic?

Keith

Removed as it violates the WBF Terms of Service. No personal insults.Someone has implanted some sort of digital measurement system into your head.

I don't know when or how they did it.

An X-Ray will confirm

Keith - the sonic properties on any kind of drive unit does depend on the materials they are made of. It can't not do. Different materials resonate with different characteristics. A paper cone speaker will NEVER sound like a metal cone speaker etc etc.

That also extends to cabinet materials.

Joe Roberts made a good comment a while ago in response to criticism of some WE speakers. "They sound a bit wooden". Response - "What do you expect? They are made out of wood."

Exactly.

 

[Purite Audio]

I admire the way you have persevered with the Apogees, I just haven't ever really enjoyed listening to a pair, I remember yours at Scalford, would you say the sound in that room was representative ?
I realise perfectly how difficult it is to get a decent sound in a strange and empty hotel room.
Keith.

 

[Zero000]

Noooo - that was a pair of Caliper's. They weren't up to much in any way, shape, or form. It was a very early restoration project. Recent efforts are much better, but the magic really starts with Duettas.

TBH I am pretty embarrassed they ever appeared there. The room I heard them in was absolutely massive if we're talking the same year - way beyond their ability.

Also, they weren't mine. They were Dr Rock's.

I empathise with your feelings on those.

 

[bonzo75]

Someone has implanted some sort of digital measurement system into your head.

I don't know when or how they did it.

An X-Ray will confirm

Keith - the sonic properties on any kind of drive unit does depend on the materials they are made of. It can't not do. Different materials resonate with different characteristics. A paper cone speaker will NEVER sound like a metal cone speaker etc etc.

That also extends to cabinet materials.

Joe Roberts made a good comment a while ago in response to criticism of some WE speakers. "They sound a bit wooden". Response - "What do you expect? They are made out of wood."

Exactly.

Hi, that WE criticism - was Keith in the audience, sounds like some Captain Obvious

 

[bonzo75]

Removed for violation of TOS.

I wouldn't go that far, but that is only because Indians are a polite bunch.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I admire the way you have persevered with the Apogees, I just haven't ever really enjoyed listening to a pair, I remember yours at Scalford, would you say the sound in that room was representative ?
I realise perfectly how difficult it is to get a decent sound in a strange and empty hotel room.
Keith.

"Strange and empty hotel rooms". Sounds like the start of a novel based on a character who doesn't have a life other than the OCD pressures torturing him. Sounds familiar...

 

[Purite Audio]

Someone has implanted some sort of digital measurement system into your head.

I don't know when or how they did it.

An X-Ray will confirm

Keith - the sonic properties on any kind of drive unit does depend on the materials they are made of. It can't not do. Different materials resonate with different characteristics. A paper cone speaker will NEVER sound like a metal cone speaker etc etc.

That also extends to cabinet materials.

Joe Roberts made a good comment a while ago in response to criticism of some WE speakers. "They sound a bit wooden". Response - "What do you expect? They are made out of wood."

Exactly.

That is a common misconception, but simply not true!
If you hear discontinunity between drivers I would look at the design of the loudspeaker and in particular it's polar response.
Keith.

 

[Purite Audio]

Noooo - that was a pair of Caliper's. They weren't up to much in any way, shape, or form. It was a very early restoration project. Recent efforts are much better, but the magic really starts with Duettas.

TBH I am pretty embarrassed they ever appeared there. The room I heard them in was absolutely massive if we're talking the same year - way beyond their ability.

Also, they weren't mine. They were Dr Rock's.

I empathise with your feelings on those.

I remember they were in a. darkened room with some spot lighting and a lava lamp?
Keith

 

[Zero000]

Here's the video I shot at the time on a cheaper camera than my current Sony RX100. There's 4-5 rows of seats you can't see in the video.

They sounded pleasant enough. Just nowt special in any particular parameter you care to name.

 

[Zero000]

It's a pretty cheap very early restoration. Nothing apart from very early new Graz ribbons - one of the first attempts I believe.

 

[Purite Audio]

I also seem to remember a larger blue pair, or is it just old age?
Keith.

 

[Zero000]

That's the only pair ever to appear at Scalford.

Here's the Liszt at Munich with the Sony. Some very nice Tron and TW gear too. Nice. But flawed, like everything, LOL. And a lot of money. A serious amount.

Seriously love the Tron and TW gear lookswise. And the orange horn on the Liszt is very pretty too.