Apogee Full range
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
In a big enough room I can comprehend the potential of that but [I'm going to sound a little blasphemous here] aside from a home theatre where hearing the helicopters flying from behind you over your head...I never heard the benefits of more than 2 superbly set up speakers/system for accurate, engrossing, lifelike music reproduction...
If done well, MCH provides 2 CH with concert hall ambience which sounds great on MCH SACDs for classical
"IF" is the operating word! I have yet to hear any MCH setup that I can stand or even find listenable for more than a minute or so. Every MCH demo I heard aside from all the physical challenges regarding room, speaker and listener positioning the DSP all but killed the tonality...
david
Harlequin, you'll find that most Apogee owners hold these speakers in high regard and in some ways among the best they've owned or heard, including myself. I don't know about Lee but my disconnect is the SET amps mentioned here in use with them. Having owned both the Diva and the Grand over a 10 year span amplification was always an issue, what drove them properly I didn't like sonically and what sounded good wasn't up to the task on demanding, dynamic music. That's why I dropped my Divas in the end for easier to drive speakers.
david
The restored ones are the best on demanding, dynamic music - with great tone. Graz's bass panels are known to be much better than the originals, the frames made by the restorers are 10 times sturdier, and they mod crossovers (and can make them go active as well). On some, the transformers can also be changed and they are given a flatter impedance. Every restorer's apogee sounds different.
None of this changes their need for current and the difficult load to present to amplifiers at different frequencies.
That's a problem too!
david
+.75
I'm not quite as extreme in reaction as David but lean toward his viewpoint. multi-channel is full of trade-offs which typically come up short to the best stereo presentation to my ears. I had a room designed for music only multi-channel from the ground up and I invested in the state of the art gear yet it never really musically happened for me and I ripped it out. too many reasons to even get into.
I respect that many believe in multi-channel music as the ultimate. in theory I can see that. but execution apparently is lacking.
Probably I have not looked enough for them, but I never found an article on optimal setups and techniques for microphones for multi-channel recording. However, I have read many informative and enjoyable articles about microphone setups for stereo and the professionals behind them. Can some one point me some links about how to set microphones in MCH recordings?
One of the most extreme MCH installations I heard was Ralph Glasgal's famous Soundlab/Tact setup. I don't remember if was using his Ambio software at the time or not but the experience was very flawed for many different reasons but our (my friend & I) main issue ahead of anything else was the tonality of the system, it was just off and distracting so nothing else really mattered after that. Here's a picture I found on the net of the setup.
david
david
The best MCH I have heard is on Auro 3d using datasat and 14.1 speakers. That is immersive multichannel that lets you have an MCH set up on the ceiling as well, and that gives a 3d to the sound, and a concert hall like distance from the stage.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Actually, it's 13.4. Normal 7 speakers below, with 4 subs. 5 overhead, small ones (3 in front, 2 at the back). And one directly overhead, called Voice of God. That speaker is key.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Thank you David for articulating precisely how I feel about the whole spkr-amp synergy argument. My move to 101dB eff Zus (and I'm not claiming they are the perfect transducer by any means, other than they speak to me) has enabled be to get into SETs, and experimentation w/SETs means I've now found my dream amps (Nats), which work so well w/the Zus, and also allow me to potentially go down the horns route if opportunity arises. I no doubt would love the sound of well sorted Apogee Duetta Sig's, but i know deep down that challenging music on them is going to be beyond-challenging for my SETs.
So, as w/you, spkrs choice is determined by my irreversible move to SETs. I'm never likely to fall into the "choose yr spkrs first, then the amps" camp.
Personally one should always set up a system based on cables. I am not a fan of either speaker, source, or amp first argument. If you have good cables, and a lot of grounding, balanced power, then anything can sound good even in a bad room...oh wait...
That made me smile Kedar.
In some ways Apogees are a bit too good. They will reveal the personality of anything driving them in abundance. The trouble is finding equipment that really is up to the job. You can get very good options, but nothing will ever be 100% right.
However, in some ways, many other speakers are a bit too bad, and they just can't produce the sort of sounds a well constructed pair of Apogees can.
Nothing is perfect. Choose your poison.
I'm currently keeping both valve and solid state options, and enjoy flipping between the two every now and then. Best overall compromise I think.
In some ways Apogees are a bit too good. They will reveal the personality of anything driving them in abundance. The trouble is finding equipment that really is up to the job. You can get very good options, but nothing will ever be 100% right.
However, in some ways, many other speakers are a bit too bad, and they just can't produce the sort of sounds a well constructed pair of Apogees can.
Nothing is perfect. Choose your poison.
I'm currently keeping both valve and solid state options, and enjoy flipping between the two every now and then. Best overall compromise I think.
The point of swap is the most interesting part, I think. From SS to valves, and valves to SS, I remain convinced for about 3-4 weeks that one option is superior to the other. Much longer than that sometimes. Then the reverse happens. It is a completely mystifying phenomenon.
Anyway, I'm glad I have nailed it down to just a couple of amps pretty much, after trying loads of options. Not saying I won't try more. In fact I have a class G/H amp in the house right now I haven't yet tried. Plenty of power should be interesting.
Anyway, I'm glad I have nailed it down to just a couple of amps pretty much, after trying loads of options. Not saying I won't try more. In fact I have a class G/H amp in the house right now I haven't yet tried. Plenty of power should be interesting.
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