Apogee Full range
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Justin, spending a bit more time on WBF after my near-death experience crash landing on my 211.
This thread will become deadly boring soon if I just hog it re tubes/not tubes for the Duettas. So I'm going to ask some different qs over time.
All I can finally say is that there are a whole bunch of spkrs I have actively turned away from considering because they're not IDEALLY suited to SETs (even if they on paper COULD work). Giya G1s, JBL Everests, Rockport Altairs, ML Prodigies etc. With all these, the vast majority of user systems/demos are high power SS, often Class D, w/occasional tubes/SETs. Even Liss'nr uses 200W ch TRL behemoths. If the Apogee was a box spkr w/the exact same specs, I can't imagine anyone here saying go w/tubes, unless we were talking big OTLs , hybrids etc.
So Justin, I don't believe there is any definitive answer to this q, but if I'm to look at the range of systems and user experiences over 3 decades w/Apogees, a certain conclusion seems to be pretty consistent, w/the odd exception.
This thread will become deadly boring soon if I just hog it re tubes/not tubes for the Duettas. So I'm going to ask some different qs over time.
All I can finally say is that there are a whole bunch of spkrs I have actively turned away from considering because they're not IDEALLY suited to SETs (even if they on paper COULD work). Giya G1s, JBL Everests, Rockport Altairs, ML Prodigies etc. With all these, the vast majority of user systems/demos are high power SS, often Class D, w/occasional tubes/SETs. Even Liss'nr uses 200W ch TRL behemoths. If the Apogee was a box spkr w/the exact same specs, I can't imagine anyone here saying go w/tubes, unless we were talking big OTLs , hybrids etc.
So Justin, I don't believe there is any definitive answer to this q, but if I'm to look at the range of systems and user experiences over 3 decades w/Apogees, a certain conclusion seems to be pretty consistent, w/the odd exception.
Ooh, now yr talking
Miles Davis - Miles Smiles and Bitches Brew
John Coltrane - Africa/Brass
Rimsky Korsakov - Scheherazade
Any Bach organ works.
King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic and Discipline
Magma - Kontarkosz
Yes - Close To The Edge
Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
Rush - Hemispheres
Zony Mash - Cold Spell
Mahogany Frog - DO5
Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick
Sula Bassana - Dreamer
Hmm, that's more than 10...shall I go on?
Miles Davis - Miles Smiles and Bitches Brew
John Coltrane - Africa/Brass
Rimsky Korsakov - Scheherazade
Any Bach organ works.
King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic and Discipline
Magma - Kontarkosz
Yes - Close To The Edge
Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
Rush - Hemispheres
Zony Mash - Cold Spell
Mahogany Frog - DO5
Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick
Sula Bassana - Dreamer
Hmm, that's more than 10...shall I go on?
i hesitated quite a bit before jumping in ...
I have had Apogee a few years ago as a secondary system in the US. I have had planar for the most part of my audiophile life. My take?
Planar need a lot of power or low output impedance amplifiers. Preferably both.
It is a wild generalization but it is not too far from the truth.
No that's fine will sort me out tonight for something to listen too...
Also, just curious to know how well the stuff you like comes across on my system, TBH.Of course Justin. For me, I won't be making a comparison to my Zus, it's not apples for apples, obv.
I just want to see if the presentation really captivates me, like the first time I heard SETs gel for me, and horns too.
If I get that goosebump feeling, then I'm on my way.
If I sit there impressed, but the music doesn't communicate and I check my watch, then it's not going to happen.
For me, I'm getting a stellar transformation in my sound at home, but radical alternatives at my age are always welcomed, and I want to see if a dipole/OB/non-box/non-cones, sound fires those endorphins.
I must hear yr fave material as well - I'm a bit of an innocent when it comes to dance/dub etc, but want to hear yr system at it's best.
But check out Mahogany Frog and Magma esp, and tell me what you think.
I just want to see if the presentation really captivates me, like the first time I heard SETs gel for me, and horns too.
If I get that goosebump feeling, then I'm on my way.
If I sit there impressed, but the music doesn't communicate and I check my watch, then it's not going to happen.
For me, I'm getting a stellar transformation in my sound at home, but radical alternatives at my age are always welcomed, and I want to see if a dipole/OB/non-box/non-cones, sound fires those endorphins.
I must hear yr fave material as well - I'm a bit of an innocent when it comes to dance/dub etc, but want to hear yr system at it's best.
But check out Mahogany Frog and Magma esp, and tell me what you think.
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FWIW, a friend of mine who also had Apogee Full-Ranges used the 250w/channel Audio Research tube amp on the mid/high section and direct-drove the bass panel with a big Krell. Our rooms were so different, it's hard to say what sound quality differences could be attributed to the tube amp.
Lee
Lee
I use a McCormack DNA500 on my Duetta Sig's. Yeah, it is probably overkill having 1000-1200 watts into their 3-4 ohm load, but this hobby is all about a bit of overkill, isn't it.
A pretty nice Scintilla re-build: http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/apogee-scintilla-listening-session/
The width required is not necessarily all that much, while this was 6m, one can do with less and Apogees can be put next to the wall.
The length is the issue. This was 10m or so, and minimum 8 would be required IMO. The Full range room was 4m * 14m.
Thanks for the photos! We are at 4.5m/5.5m x 13m x 3.3m but the speaker need to be placed at 4.5m firing down the longer 7.5m length of the room. At 4.5m is when the room goes from 5.5m to 4.5m due to columns/curves. Despite your comments about width, i suspect that it would have to be the Full Ranges. Can they be placed near the wall?
Size comments apply equally for both. There is not much difference between Full Range and Grands, if any at all. Except price. Full Range from Henk can be had at 17k Euro, with Mundorf crossovers. You can then upgrade crossovers over time or go active with more amplification.
The Full range room I heard was 4m wide, but very long. 7.5m would just about be cutting it, and I don't have the experience to say given both rooms I heard them in were longer, so more room for the bass to escape, though in both there was too much space behind the listener.
I didn't get what the 7.5m and 13m - how can both be lengths?
I'm not really comfortable with the Grand's philosophy and general design i.e. the need for the dynamic woofer's, the panels placed on top of the woofer enclosure, the height of said panels above the ground and the ridiculous need for crazy amplification.
I think Duetta and Diva and to a much lesser extent Full Range and Scintilla are the only sensible options. The amp constraints on Scintilla are mad, restricting you to only a few solid state options and possibly some insane valve designs.
Duetta is undoubtedly the most practical in price/performance/amplification terms.
Still, the true audiophile knows no bounds, LOL.
I think Duetta and Diva and to a much lesser extent Full Range and Scintilla are the only sensible options. The amp constraints on Scintilla are mad, restricting you to only a few solid state options and possibly some insane valve designs.
Duetta is undoubtedly the most practical in price/performance/amplification terms.
Still, the true audiophile knows no bounds, LOL.
The Duetta doesn't come close to the full range or Grands. The Full range is a more practical implementation of Grands. Quite wrong to judge a speaker of this caliber based on pure design theory.
If Divas come close to this midrange, yes. But otherwise, I will take them off. The Divas I heard a few months ago had the Graz bass panel, but Henk explained they had the old Apogee crossovers and their frame was much weaker as it was not rebuilt. I hadn't liked that system much until the TT played, then it sounded excellent. The Duettas and that are closer to your older apogee midrange. The Full Range and Grands are just another universe, as they should be.
I can just imagine how good the 100 db Definitives could be.
If Divas come close to this midrange, yes. But otherwise, I will take them off. The Divas I heard a few months ago had the Graz bass panel, but Henk explained they had the old Apogee crossovers and their frame was much weaker as it was not rebuilt. I hadn't liked that system much until the TT played, then it sounded excellent. The Duettas and that are closer to your older apogee midrange. The Full Range and Grands are just another universe, as they should be.
I can just imagine how good the 100 db Definitives could be.
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The Room is open plan kitchen and living room and we have curved edges/colums at 4.5m to 'divide' the 2 rooms. The speakers would go there.
so from front wall, after 4.5m down the length of the room, you have pillars? and then a further 7.5m down?
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