AppleTV X - I am playing with something new

[jbrrp1]

Well so far after playing with it on the ATVX and Switch X,, these look ideal.. One of my vids shows the linear I already use. I already know the ATVX I cant tweak any better, I spent forever on that. I have had a active load for a decade, its not new to me, this one is just better. Measuring my current linear was fun tho, the specs were impressive. Better then I measured with my old setup.

The ATV has a few key things in the power supply path. It has a cap bank that has 3 different types of caps and these are arranged physically along a set of pure silver wires into whats called a strip line filter kinda arrangement. Its SERIOUSLY tuned. The positions along the strip line and the size types of caps was fairly straight forward to figure out and my old active load was magnitudes better then required. So its all crazy good.

I was able to do 60A pulses thru it and confirm some things tho So the new active load was fun to play with. I got the 18ga solid silver wires hot with high freq pulses .. I was able to more quickly confirm the tuning.. The caps are also a time domain thing, so I was better able to see this alignment.

I am going to look at modding a NUC to make something that can run a roon core. So a music server.

Its a upgrade. Plus I made this one with high precision parts, metal foil resistors and stuff. Its much better signal to noise ratio. I spent a bunch of time getting it carefully tuned with its power FET so I could get really precise square waves over a wide bandwidth and current range. I really focused on making it a real piece of test equip and gave it a big S/N ratio so I could make very clean well defined measurements. I also focused on whats called 1/f noise. This is a physics issue which is a low freq noise limitation. So I really improved its 1/f noise so my measurements down in the 0.01-10hz band are clean. I also did insanity level shielding noise wise. I highly modded the Tektronix signal generation plugins. Cleaned up the Tektronix AM502 differential amplifier. I made the whole setup work as a whole that was easy to use..

A Active load is something i use a lot, so, I just made a REALLY good one. I plan on using this for the next 10+ years.

There are other things you can do with a active load. It can be used for a lot more then just power supply and regulation.. For example I have used one on data busses from/to digital chips. Its basically a active variable resistor. So placing it on a data line and changing the loading on a data line and watching what happens you can pick a more precise loading resistor for a bus and can tune things in circuit. Its just a very valuable tool the same way a scope or meter is.

Right now I am just stuffing it into previous projects and playing around. It makes my job way faster and easier and I get a clearer pic of what I am doing. Its a fun new upgraded tool..

I also make my own gear. Stuff I could never make in production as its just too time consuming to make. So I will use this on some of my own projects. Like my insanely modded Panasonic Plasma. Or the power supply in my audio amps. How analog audio gear power supplies work benifits GREATLY testing like this.

Any possibility of marketing your own LPS solutions (12V, 19V, etc.)? Sounds like this improved test gear could lead to some valuable products.

 

[Xymox]

Any possibility of marketing your own LPS solutions (12V, 19V, etc.)? Sounds like this improved test gear could lead to some valuable products.

I have considered it. The issue is tho that to get real magic you gotta use sensing. While common in commercial/industrial/lab gear, the audio world is stuck on 2 wire connections from the 1970's. So the whole industry needs to move to 4 pin connections ( 2 power / 2 sense ) so high performance regulation could be delievered to a device. These 2 pin coaxial connectors that are on everything now are just junk.

I suppose.. A little adapter that would fit on the device and bring sensing to the device. Not inside, but, at least up to the connector. That would help..

Hmmm... I gotta think about it..

 

[Xymox]

ATTENTION

Slight issue with the newest Apple TVos firmware. I am not sure where this started, I just noticed.

When I turn off my TV, the ATV will turn off.

I have Remotes & Devices > Control TVs & Recievers set to OFF and General > Sleep After > Never..

But it will now still turn off when the TV turns off..

You want the ATVX to be on all the time to keep all its parts at thermal stability.

I discovered on my TV that it can apperently send a HDMI CEC code backwards out of the TV to the ATV and turn it off. I turned this off and I seem to be OK again..

I have order up a HDMI CEC blocker and will play with that..

So I am on firmware 18.3.. I am not sure exactly when this started. So you should check your ATVX and make sure its light on the front stays on all the time. Turn the TV off and wait and make sure it does not turn off the ATV. If it does, hunt thru TV settings to disable this.

 

[Zeotrope]

Some of you may be curious about this:
I just installed the Schnerzinger EMI and GRID. These are devices that remove EMI and clean the AC (phase, ground, noise) without using capacitors and filters.There is a thread on their products in this forum.
What really amazed me in regards to video is that it noticeably removed noise from the picture. My projected (JVC NZ9/25LTD) looked more like a panel - the small amounts of random noise that I could normally see were gone!
Keep in mind that the ATVX is already powered from a Shunyata Denali V2 and I have a Taiko Ethernet Router and Switch, and the ATVX is connected to that via Ethernet. Each of these already improve the noise noticeably. I was therefore not expecting to see such an improvement from Schnerzginer’s EMI and GRID.
I have no affiliation to the company. Highly recommended!

 

[Xymox]

To keep your ATVX on 24/7 - which you want to do - some settings are critical with new firmware.. I do not know all TVs, but I explored how to do this with Sony's.

There are 2 issues. Apple TVos 18.x brought with it a pathological compulsion to control everything a ATV is connected to. Apple wants to control EVERYTHING.. This ended up meaning that going to stand by would send CEC commands to the rcvr and TV to turn off. Thats annoying. BUT if you followed the "recommended settings" I send with the ATVX you would have set sleep > never.. I run into this tho doing initial setup and firmware upgrades of all ATVXs. I ship them with the current TVos which is 18.3 currently. Fixing this required changing a settings to take control away from Apple. Months later I have now noticed that Apple had another trick.. If you turn off the TV, or maybe even the surround processor, it will turn off the ATV.. So Apple went from a dominate to submissive position and just takes it from any device that comes along.

So.. We need to end up back the way TVos used to be.

Settings below..

I explored cutting the CEC trace or disabling it in hardware. This is not a good idea of course because someone might use it. BUT, this is impossible, or nearly so, the trace in on a layer of the PCB I can access. It goes to a chip pin directly that again, I cant access.. So that solution is out. I did a HDMI CEC blocker. This works VERY simply and just disconnects the CEC pin. I played with this and it seems to have a minimal, or no, impact on sound/pic even with my reference setup. Of course your mileage may vary. But they are cheap on Amazon and easy to use. These do sever all CEC control.. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BFL8TM8?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Recommend settings:

ATV:
Settings>General>SLeep After>NEVER
Settings>Remotes and devices>Control TVs & Rcvrs > OFF
Settings>Remotes and devices>Volume Control>OFF

Sony A90J ( and most likely all Sony TVs:
Home key>Dashboard>all settings>Channels & Inputs> External Inputs>Bravia Sync Control>OFF
Home key>Dashboard>all settings>Channels & Inputs> External Inputs>Device COntrol Kets>none

Each TV has a way to turn of CEC.. You can google your TV brand / model and "how to disable CEC"...

 

[Xymox]

Some of you may be curious about this:
I just installed the Schnerzinger EMI and GRID. These are devices that remove EMI and clean the AC (phase, ground, noise) without using capacitors and filters.There is a thread on their products in this forum.
What really amazed me in regards to video is that it noticeably removed noise from the picture. My projected (JVC NZ9/25LTD) looked more like a panel - the small amounts of random noise that I could normally see were gone!
Keep in mind that the ATVX is already powered from a Shunyata Denali V2 and I have a Taiko Ethernet Router and Switch, and the ATVX is connected to that via Ethernet. Each of these already improve the noise noticeably. I was therefore not expecting to see such an improvement from Schnerzginer’s EMI and GRID.
I have no affiliation to the company. Highly recommended!

INTERESTING....

HDMI is a stunningly fragile signal and ALWAYS has some amount of loss. ALWAYS. It has a TONE of stuff to change modulation strategies and all manner of compensation that goes on live. It also has concealment. So it is NO surprize that anything that could affect the noise in any way on a HDMI signal WILL matter in pic and sound. Most of the noise on HDMI ends up coming from the difference in grounding of devices connected to the HDMI. The ATVX is HIGHLY isolated from ground. The R-Core in the linear is used for this VS other types of transformers. BUT noise on the linear does end up seeping into the ATVX just because of the case being metal and surrounding the circuits. So careful grounding of the power will matter in a noise difference between the ATVX and the surround proc or TV. The difference in grounding the 2 is what causes noise on the HDMI which can lead to modulation errors and correction and retranmissions.

EACH system is different tho in how much this all matters.

This is also true of digital audio devices and signals like USB / Ethernet. That is why the Switch X is HIGHLY isolated and has a ground lug. Mostly tho, its better to leave the SwitchX isolated. But good grounding on the linears for it and the Wifi X.

 

[Zeotrope]

INTERESTING....

HDMI is a stunningly fragile signal and ALWAYS has some amount of loss. ALWAYS. It has a TONE of stuff to change modulation strategies and all manner of compensation that goes on live. It also has concealment. So it is NO surprize that anything that could affect the noise in any way on a HDMI signal WILL matter in pic and sound. Most of the noise on HDMI ends up coming from the difference in grounding of devices connected to the HDMI. The ATVX is HIGHLY isolated from ground. The R-Core in the linear is used for this VS other types of transformers. BUT noise on the linear does end up seeping into the ATVX just because of the case being metal and surrounding the circuits. So careful grounding of the power will matter in a noise difference between the ATVX and the surround proc or TV. The difference in grounding the 2 is what causes noise on the HDMI which can lead to modulation errors and correction and retranmissions.

EACH system is different tho in how much this all matters.

This is also true of digital audio devices and signals like USB / Ethernet. That is why the Switch X is HIGHLY isolated and has a ground lug. Mostly tho, its better to leave the SwitchX isolated. But good grounding on the linears for it and the Wifi X.

Thank you, Chris. Very interesting.
Is there a ground point on the ATVX that could be connected to the Shunyata ALTAIRA? This would be a point on the chassis, for example, that is electrically connected to AC ground.

 

[Xymox]

Thank you, Chris. Very interesting.
Is there a ground point on the ATVX that could be connected to the Shunyata ALTAIRA? This would be a point on the chassis, for example, that is electrically connected to AC ground.

The ground pin of the power connector is a star point ground node. So plugging that into your power system that has proper grounding is best.

Having 2 ground points is not best. This is why it does NOT have a ground lug.

The Switch X is a different topology and its case is isolated, so it needs a gnd point.

So as long as your power cord is plugged into a good system with good grounding topology that might also include the surround processor and TV then your good..

A side note. NEVER try and ground a TV like a Sony OLED that does not have a 3 pin ground power cord. Its DESIGNED to float specificially to isolate it from any ground references. So bolting a ground cable to a TV can result in a loss of picture or serious instability issues. Its designed to get its ground reference FROM the HDMI ground as a ref.

 

[Low325]

probably not recommended for optimal performance cause appletv will call itself to other devices and vice versa but I have it as my HomeKit hub and set it to never sleep as well. If you have other hubs on the network tvOS may randomly choose a hub to be your main and often it’s not the one you want it to be lol.

I started to notice this when my smart devices started to go offline sometime back and I couldn’t understand why…it was because my ATVX was turning off. I think this was implemented as far back before 18?

 

[Xymox]

probably not recommended for optimal performance cause appletv will call itself to other devices and vice versa but I have it as my HomeKit hub and set it to never sleep as well. If you have other hubs on the network tvOS may randomly choose a hub to be your main and often it’s not the one you want it to be lol.

I started to notice this when my smart devices started to go offline sometime back and I couldn’t understand why…it was because my ATVX was turning off. I think this was implemented as far back before 18?

Randomly choose different hubs.... Well thats annoying, hahaha.. Yea this new behavior of all AppleTVs would be pretty disruptive if you had a bunch of them on one network.

Yes not best for performance. The ATVX doing Home Hub stuff would cause jitter in decoding streams. Im sure still really good, but, there would be a impact.

This is a great use for a Switch X. Putting the ATVX on a isolated network would prevent the ATVX from seeing anything else on the local network. Of course this isolation would mean the ATVX would not be part of a home hub for automation. It would be stand alone.

This started on 18.0. I clearly remember when it started. When I make up ATVXs one of my first steps is i take the new unopened ATVs and firmware update them and get the remote charged and updated as well. When 18 first hit as a dev beta I updated a new one to test it. The only way to get the remote firmware to update is to update the ATV and then let the ATV go to sleep. It ONLY updates the remote firmware when sleep triggers and does so right before going to sleep. SO the ATV firmware updated to 18 and I restarted it and then set sleep > 5 mins and left it to update the remote and sleep... I was sitting there and the TV went CLICK and turned off.. I was like WTF.. Did my TV just fail ? I turned it back on and everything seemed fine.. The remote did not firmware update, so, I let it sleep again. Again it turned off the TV.. That was when i noticed that simply pressing any button on the ATV remote would power on the TV.... I went WTF...

I figured this was a bug and something with CEC was broken..

Some dev beta updates later this persisted.. This was when I discovered it was a new "feature"...

I discovered the control TVs & Rcvrs setting and turned this to off.. This fixed the issue.

It was just recently I noticed that my ATVX was off.. Using the power button on the TV caused the ATV to come on... It was sleeping even tho i have SLeep > Never set... It also was turning off when i turned off the TV. ^%#@#$@$%#&%$#$%#

What TVos this 2nd behavior started i did not notice. SIt may have been present right off with 18.0 dev beta but it might also have been later.

This led to google searches and others who have the same issue. Apple has gone CEC crazy and they decided the ATV was the one ring to rule them all..

I verified this same CEC set of behaviors seems to affect ALL TVs / Proj I have checked on so far. ALL the Sony flat panels, LGs, even my Panasonic Plasma from a decade ago. It affects Sony Proj, specifically the GTZ-380..

Luckily, so far, each display device has some setting to disable CEC. So no CEC blocker needed. BUT. Some clients might need a CEC blocker depending on the display or other factors.

 

[msimanyi]

I find the CEC blocker on my ATVX has been quite effective at stopping all of this.

Even so, thank you for posting those setting updates. I've modified them to ensure they're set as suggested, for that good "belt and suspenders" approach. (Especially the TV, which might be signaling other hardware...)

 

[Xymox]

I few updates from other clients.

The settings are 100% effective so far. A number of clients have also used the blocker and reported no obvious drop in pic/sound quality. This is no surprize as the blocker is just a PCB with traces straight thru except the CEC pin that carries CEC data. So the loss thru the blocker is very very negligible, not zero of course, but its very little.

A client has brought up a interesting point. He has a Emotiva rcvr. These have a LONG list of HDMI issues over at least 3 years that are still unresolved. These HDMI issues affect newer more advanced devices. ATVs, Nvidia shield, playstation, some video streamer boxes.. The end reult makes using these source devices nearly impossible with Emotiva blaming everything else. The hive mind of the internet has worked these issues over and the best way to mitigate the issues is a wierd hook up and degraded settings for the source device. No HDR, No frame rate changes, no range changes and you have to hook up the devices in a wierd way. Like ATV > TV > eARC HDMI > Rcvr.. They also HIGHLY suggest using CEC blockers. So I have a ATVX client who is working towards getting a Anthem and tossing the Emotiva out a window. He has been trying to get it stable tho until then. He had the ATV firmware power issue we have been discussing. He added a CEC blocker to the ATVX and this fixed the power issue and seemed to help the overall stability of the link to the EMotiva. He then put one between the TV and Emotiva on the eARC return audio. This knocked out audio because the Emotiva apparently relies on CEC doing eARC.

I always avoid eARC because of the LONG list of issues and overall unstable link.

This tho caused me to think. By blocking CEC the blocker blocks a LOT of info, not just the dreaded remote commands we are discussing. Each device can impliment all sorts of stuff on CEC and the standard is kinda not so standard..

I think I like the use of a CEC blocker. I have no reason for my devices to talk to each other. BUT. Other might..

HDMI CEC is worth looking over to understand what we are turning off and blocking.

Consumer Electronics Control - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[msimanyi]

I'm also using an Emotiva processor - their RMC-1. My setup is pretty simple: ATVX and Kaleidescape into the RMC-1, which outputs video to my Sony TV (A90J).

So my system is pretty minimal on the HT side of things, which may well underlie my opinion... which is there are some imperfections in Emotiva's HDMI capabilities, but the most vocal critics are dealing with what I perceive to be relatively complex scenarios. (In many cases, I seem to recall that they were either supporting mixed resolution, high-end / low-volume projection display devices and/or were dealing with long runs for their cables. Several complaining about issues seemed to be supporting older Blu-Ray devices as well.)

My issues have been minimal. I occasionally get an odd digital "buzz" when the ATV changes audio modes, but now that I'm thinking about this I don't think I've had that happen in the last few weeks. Perhaps Apple finally fixed the issue in one of the recent updates.

 

[Massimo66]

Good morning everyone. Sorry if I introduce a topic not pertinent to this discussion, but this thread seems to me the most suitable to get answers to my question. Nvidia recently released an update for the Shield Pro TV (it works perfectly as a Roon end point), thus allowing you to connect my DAC through the USB output. So I immediately got to work, I got a power cable suitable for the Shield Pro to which I soldered an XLR horn on the other side to connect it to a 19 volt linear power supply (it has a proprietary connector that I could not find anywhere) and I connected a normal USB cable from a PC between the Shield Pro and my Dac. Wow I was absolutely not prepared for the quality of playback, both of my files and the streaming of Qobuz through Roon or the playback of YouTube files. It's incredible how with about € 200 + € 1 hundred for the linear power supply you can get this kind of quality. Considering the amount of geeks that hang around our forum, I wonder what modifications could be made to the shield Pro to get even more out of this device, The only thing that leaves me perplexed is that through USB I have an audio output at 48 khz, while with HDMI I can have everything I need, unfortunately my playback designs mpd 5 dac does not have an HDMI input

 

[Xymox]

Good morning everyone. Sorry if I introduce a topic not pertinent to this discussion, but this thread seems to me the most suitable to get answers to my question. Nvidia recently released an update for the Shield Pro TV (it works perfectly as a Roon end point), thus allowing you to connect my DAC through the USB output. So I immediately got to work, I got a power cable suitable for the Shield Pro to which I soldered an XLR horn on the other side to connect it to a 19 volt linear power supply (it has a proprietary connector that I could not find anywhere) and I connected a normal USB cable from a PC between the Shield Pro and my Dac. Wow I was absolutely not prepared for the quality of playback, both of my files and the streaming of Qobuz through Roon or the playback of YouTube files. It's incredible how with about € 200 + € 1 hundred for the linear power supply you can get this kind of quality. Considering the amount of geeks that hang around our forum, I wonder what modifications could be made to the shield Pro to get even more out of this device, The only thing that leaves me perplexed is that through USB I have an audio output at 48 khz, while with HDMI I can have everything I need, unfortunately my playback designs mpd 5 dac does not have an HDMI input

I have done EXTENSIVE mods to the shield. I have a insanely modded one hooked to my system. I have also been asked about modding shields a number of times. I cannot get the same performance out of a shield as I can out of a ATV. The ATV is just a way better engineered device for high performance. I have also played with a Roku. The highly modded Roku was better then athe shield, but that was with tons of mods like new regulation and clocks. Both the shield and Roku are at a decided disadvantage VS the base engineering that Apple did with the A2169.

For me the goal was the best streaming performance. So the ATV won. I could make a modded shield or roku, but, the mods and parts and linear and stuff would make all 3 the same price, so, I dont see any need to make a modded Roku or Shield as they would be less performance.

The Shield does not intregrate into a eco system like Apple. The AppleTV becomes part of someones Apple world and has a lot of cool things in this reguard. While you can do pirate illegal streaming on the Shield, this is something that will eventually get someone in trouble so this "feature" is not on my list.

The other issue for me is the Shield is not nearly as stable as a ATV.

I would happily mod a Shield or Roku, but, it does not make sense to me as they cant do the same performance.

Are they a good inexpensive device and perform well with a linear ? Sure. True of a Roku as well.

I did a video on why the A2169 is just way better engineering then a Shield or Roku.. Its design is way beyond a shield or Roku. They were loosing money making it..

 

[Low325]

I’m glad you made appletv X available. It was absolutely a curiosity for folks like me in the ecosystem and looking for a very easy but incredibly long term (supported by the manufacturer) video streaming device that could be improved upon. I have even the previous generation aTV upstairs for far more years in use to this day than my ATVX and it still runs albeit slower in Home Screen surfing but after that, it’s just like watching tv regardless of source.

That said, are there any upgrades in the device that are now available since you made it available to customers?

 

[Xymox]

I’m glad you made appletv X available. It was absolutely a curiosity for folks like me in the ecosystem and looking for a very easy but incredibly long term (supported by the manufacturer) video streaming device that could be improved upon. I have even the previous generation aTV upstairs for far more years in use to this day than my ATVX and it still runs albeit slower in Home Screen surfing but after that, it’s just like watching tv regardless of source.

That said, are there any upgrades in the device that are now available since you made it available to customers?

Thank you I enjoy mine every night just like all of you. It was so fun, I had to share it

The mods to the ATV took forever to do and are as good as i can make them. There are a few things I did on my own units over the last few years to try and improve things, nope.

I have been thinking about revisiting the linear power supply. I now have some really fun test equipment and I might be able to make that better. BUT. I am unsure it will result in better pic/sound..

I just made the system the very best it could be right off.

I might be able to tweak the linear better, and maybe it might be a better pic/sound. So far tho, everything i do does not make it better.

 

[Xymox]

I have a new client who had a Nvidia Shield and was using a bunch of apps I do not have experience with. I wanted to pass on something from this.

He has found that the apps TVMPlayer and IPTVX are not working fully in AppleTV TVos. They do not support Atmos correctly.

MovieBox Pro has also come up.

There are a lot of people who use a Nvidia Shield to play illegal content. TVMPlayer, IPTVX and things like Plex and InFuze are all commonly used to play illegal material. Some aspects of these apps is not developed fully for AppleTV. For example the CODECS and for example how they handle things like Atmos and Dolby Vision. While they will play this kind of content on a Shield, the apps vary in their support on ATV. This is of course a app developer issue not doing this correctly as a ATV can do Atmos great and uses Dolby MAT.

Of course this applies to AppleTV and Apple, not just to the ATVX...

But I did want to cover that a if your choosing to play illegal content rathern then pay for a much higher quality real version, then a Nvidia Shield may be your best choice. The best way of course would be to have both. The Shield for the marginal quality pirate bootleg illegal stuff and a ATVX for when you want to get the best performance.

I also want to point out that doing "sideloading" voids a ATVX warranty. This is hacking the TVos and I cannot clean the OS fully. So sideloading can induce changes to the file system that cannot be wiped. So dont do that, hahahaha..

 

[keadawg]

Hi all, new member on the site, but long time enthusiast. I was previously considering the Kscape, but learned about the ATVX and am very intrigued. I had a question regarding PQ of the ATVX vs using my Bravia 9's built-in applications. In my head, the strength of the ATVX is in cleaning up the HDMI signal, but that is avoided entirely by using the TV's built in apps. Would you say it is the case that the ATV is getting higher quality (higher bitrate, etc.) content from each of the streaming services (as compared to built-in applications) and then, with the ATVX improvements, pass that along to the TV without degradation?

 

[Xymox]

Hi all, new member on the site, but long time enthusiast. I was previously considering the Kscape, but learned about the ATVX and am very intrigued. I had a question regarding PQ of the ATVX vs using my Bravia 9's built-in applications. In my head, the strength of the ATVX is in cleaning up the HDMI signal, but that is avoided entirely by using the TV's built in apps. Would you say it is the case that the ATV is getting higher quality (higher bitrate, etc.) content from each of the streaming services (as compared to built-in applications) and then, with the ATVX improvements, pass that along to the TV without degradation?

A TV locks to a HDMI signal. So does a surround processor. The HDMI source clock/jitter propagates to the rest of the TV/surround decoding. So a HDMI source device is your master clock if you will. So feeding a super clean HDMI signal to devices results in a lot of the systems downstream having less jitter.

There is a LOT more going on besides HDMI signal clean up. On at ATVX the CPU, RAM, HDMI chip and ethernet is all getting dejittered and power supply to each system is vastly cleaner and tighter regulated. This results in much cleaner clocking of data thru the whole system. A measurable / visible result of this as one example is video frame decoding jitter. Each frame sent out is more periodic. Each decoded frame ends up being really well spaced in time.

If your using a surround rcvr/decoder then you can plug the ATVX directly into the surround rcvr. This is a vastly better way to decode sound then using the TV optical or eARC out if your doing surround for it. eARC is a whole additional set of issues and a whole additional HDMI link that degrades sound VS hooking the ATVX directly to the rcvr.

You gain a lot of control of the source material. For example there was a issue with some Amazon series stuff and I was able to switch the ATVX to 4K23.98 and this mostly fixed the issue.

You can choose SDR/HDR/DV or even things like 2K VS 4K.

SO having a separate streaming source device has a lot of advantages over a built-in app AND will have a better pic and sound because of a list of reasons only some of which i covered.

A app running inside a TV has a lot going on. The CPU in a TV is doing other things besides just streaming, so these interrupts and stuff cause unavoidable jitter in various aspects of the process. The TV is a terrible electrical environment and the power supply rails are shared with other systems and are very noisy and poorly regulated. The RF noise environment means the data bus and other linked systems will end up with noise which will end up as jitter. The ATV is a much more powerful hardware platform then what you have in a TV and so this can lead to apps being able to do more powerful things. For example i can play 700Mbps video streams off a local server. So TV apps are a lot less worthy of high performance use.