Aqua Formula - settings new levels of R2R sonics and price performance

Jpowell

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Dec 23, 2011
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and the Aqua remote seamlessly allowing switching on the dac from the transport input to the server

Mike, I'm curious about your statement--I assume that the transport remote allows for this switching at the dac end. I'm a little surprised, given the 'mechanical' toggles on the dac. Does it just leave the toggles in place and just light up the new input?

I should introduce myself, I suppose. A long time ago I actually visited you once, while out visiting my folks who lived in Port Townsend at the time. You were kind enough to let me 'drop in' one afternoon. I'm also the 'east coast guy' that Ed has mentioned in whose setup he first heard the SGM-Formula combination (he was demoing the SGM in my system and I subsequently purchased the SGM, since I obviously liked the combo as well).

Jerry
 

asiufy

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Tang, the consensus 100% is that Formula excels going balanced
It looks like that battleship build of the JMF is paying off for you

Do you have any experience of playing Blu Ray Pure thru the JMF, this function seems to be a unique selling point of the transport, apparently nothing else outputs Blu Ray audio in it's purest form

The MSB transports do, and have been doing for a while.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I do not keep the CDs to make exercise, but because they sound significantly better than the files in my system. Probably some day I will find a stable product delivering equal quality that will allow me to replace the CD spinner.

IMHO computer audio is still in the dinosaur age. I have a scanner/printer costing usd 200 on my desk. I put a 10 page document in the feeder, press a button twice and one minute later I have all the files in a folder in my computer. Why don't we have a standard way of doing a similar thing with audio CD's?

Stories like these just confirm, once more, my bias away from computer audio and towards simple CD transports. I have witnessed so much complex, complicated and frustrating drama on computer audio over the years that I say, not for me, I'll keep happily spinning CDs, thank you very, very much.

Same camp as you gentlemen, I have yet to hear computer audio that I can stand more than a few minutes and besides I really like the physical, tangible CD disc over files.

david
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, I'm curious about your statement--I assume that the transport remote allows for this switching at the dac end. I'm a little surprised, given the 'mechanical' toggles on the dac. Does it just leave the toggles in place and just light up the new input?

I should introduce myself, I suppose. A long time ago I actually visited you once, while out visiting my folks who lived in Port Townsend at the time. You were kind enough to let me 'drop in' one afternoon. I'm also the 'east coast guy' that Ed has mentioned in whose setup he first heard the SGM-Formula combination (he was demoing the SGM in my system and I subsequently purchased the SGM, since I obviously liked the combo as well).

Jerry

hi Jerry,

I do recall your name, and a visitor from Pt. Townsend. nice to hear from you....and it's a small audio world. so you had the Formula and then added the SGM. thanks for having Ed hear it. I know I'm enjoying that combo and from the first few seconds of hearing it in my system I knew it was a good fit.

btw; welcome to What's Best Forum.

as far as the dac switching inputs; yes, there are toggles but the transport remote accesses the 6 inputs by number on the remote (you hit the 'dac' button on the top of the remote and then hit the number of the input you want). and the light then changes to show which input it is on. exactly the circuit process that allows that to happen I don't know. you also notice that the frequency input changes from 352 to 44. so in the dark it's easy to tell which input it is on......if you are comparing files and have the lights dimmed. no clicks and the volume seems to be very closely matched with the i2S input for the Transport.
 

Tango

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Do you have any experience of playing Blu Ray Pure thru the JMF, this function seems to be a unique selling point of the transport, apparently nothing else outputs Blu Ray audio in it's purest form

Spirit,

You must be a psychic. My Nat King Cole Blueray audio from Amazon just arrived today. This is my first listen of Blueray. I didnt own any Blueray Audio disc before and no one sells them in Thailand.

Meetings all days, I only had time listening to just one song. The impression was wow the sound presentation and ambient were so airy, clear like sunny day in Zerrmat with a view of bright blue sky and snowy mountainscape. If you feel me, the vocal and sound of each instrument were like the picture I described. Old King Cole's songs sounding new? Too clean? Do I like it? I dont know yet. It was the kind of surreal feeling I had first visited Zerrmat. The mountains, the snow, the sky were real but they look maybe too good.

Or It could just be the way they engineered songs into this disc. Sounds different from red book. Not saying good or bad. Have to listen a lot more. I am not a digital fan. But I guess I will be listening to digital more to answer you guys.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Tang, not a psychic or mind reader
Just a good judge of why you've gone the way you have
Enjoy
 

wisnon

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Tang, not a psychic or mind reader
Just a good judge of why you've gone the way you have
Enjoy
ROTFLMAO

What is so special about BluRay audio? Its just high Rez on a disk with some compression:
High Fidelity Pure Audio, occasionally abbreviated as HFPA, is a marketing initiative, spearheaded by the Universal Music Group, for audio-only Blu-ray optical discs.[2] Launched in 2013[3] as a potential successor to the compact disc (CD), it has been compared with DVD-A and SACD, which had similar aims.[4][2]
HFPA is encoded as 24-bit/96 kHz or 24-bit/192 kHz linear PCM ("high-resolution audio"), optionally losslessly compressed with Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio.[5]

If you guy keep saying that compAudio USB is evil (debatable at best) just get a $2.5K Sonore Signature Rendo that outputs with an HDMI cable in LVDS i2S, the native language of DACs. Many Dacs could accept this, as it uses the same protocol as PS Audio, Rocna, Lampi and 5 or 6 others can take it as is. Jesus claims he has played up to DSD1024 via this route!

Its a modded Linux based streamer that you would attach to a NAS with Ethernet.

Then you also have streamers that will output AoIP, ask AudioBill about that as he champions this connection and for SpDiF lovers, the Lampi SuperKomputer has the option to output with a Tube stage called the DigiLampizator that I see other makers have adopted as well. On a scope you see it squaring up the digital signal...google the Lampizator DIY site for the foto evidence.

In summary, there is no way in my mind that a spinner is better than cutting edge transports that can transport HIGH RATE digital signal. The signal density alone will give that route the edge, all other things being equal. Now, we can debate one implementation vs another, but sorry there is a point where logic will rule.
 

wisnon

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The MSB transports do, and have been doing for a while.

MSB has stepped up big time as of the last several months. I know a few people who have many systems at home and can compare relative performance and after the last upgrade, the level went up hugely.

I think I now understand why we had different Select Dac opinions. I heard the Select 1 and was ho hum, I have now had feedback on the 2 and what were the tech improvements and the 2 is a VERY different best, both in critical hardware tweaking but mostly in WAY better software application, night and day better! So even without hearing, I can believe. LoL
 

asiufy

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Yeah but MSB is not the "new kid on the block", nor it's esoteric, so I guess they get no respect :)

I still think MSB's approach to transports make a lot of sense. Instead of focusing on overbuilt mechanical transports, they use regular PC drives, and play the CDs like a computer/server. That is, it actually reads the bits as if it was a computer ripping the CD, slaves that data to the DAC clock (or you can actually put a femto clock inside the transport!), and passes that forward to the DAC via bidirectional I2S.

I think a lot of the positive effects of the Aqua transport/DAC combo is that it also adopts an I2S connection.
 

Jpowell

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Dec 23, 2011
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Thanks, Mike. That all makes sense. I guess I could not really justify getting the remote just for that purpose, but it's nice to know that the Formula has that capability.

BTW, I've bumped into you at RMAF a time or two also--on the SuperShuttle, I believe. It is a small world.

Regards.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Thanks, Mike. That all makes sense. I guess I could not really justify getting the remote just for that purpose, but it's nice to know that the Formula has that capability.

BTW, I've bumped into you at RMAF a time or two also--on the SuperShuttle, I believe. It is a small world.

Regards.

yes, the RMAF connection rings a bell.:D we will likely run into each other again there.
 

wisnon

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The other server tech I find very interesting is the Memory Player for their ahead if its time software applications that deal with problems others dont even know exist yet. The way data is handled...for example.
 

Barry2013

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You remind me I have a mid range Denon Blu Ray player and an Anthem AV amp as part of my system
Some time ago I bought a Pure Audio Blu Ray disc of Beck's Sea Changes.
The sound is good and very transparent even with such a relatively modest set up and I imagine it would be better with an Oppo.
How much better with a JMF I wonder.
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So all our members that prefer cd replay to file replay: good for you and keep enjoying your cd's. I am spinning myself with my (not standard because revised; inter alia a better clock) Zanden cd--combo in order to be able to play my many cd's that are not available in the vinyl or files format. And I am enjoying myself with cd reply.

That said I am wondering: how many of you have actually compared high res files - eg dsd 256 or dxd recordings - a-b to the same recordings on (sa)cd? The -original - dxd recordings of Bert van der Wolf's Northstar recordings are also sold as Challenge Classics sacd's and these recordings make a fair comparison possible. The same applies to the Channel Classics dsd 64 recordings.

So I am wondering: who did such an a-b test?
 
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wisnon

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So all our members that prefer cd replay to file replay: good for you and keep enjoying your cd's. I am spinning myself with my (not standard because revised; inter alia a better clock) Zanden cd--combo in order to be able to play my many cd's that are not available in the vinyl or files format. And I am enjoying myself with cd reply.

That said I am wondering: how many of you have actually compared high res files - eg dsd 256 or dxd recordings - a-b to the same recordings on (sa)cd? The -original - dxd recordings of Bert van der Wolf's Northstar recordings are also sold as Challenge Classics sacd's and these recordings make a fair comparison possible. The same applies to the Channel Classics dsd 64 recordings.

So I am wondering: who did such an a-b test?

I have nothing against CD playback, but fail to see how, with the same mastering, a cut down CD will match the original DXD file, for example...again using top class Equipment.
 
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Taiko Audio

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I have nothing against CD playbaack, but fail to see who with the same mastering, a cut down CD will match the original DXD file, for example...again using top class Equipment.

Once upon a time, before the era of Tidal and digital downloads, i had this cd-ripping jig setup utilizing the back then best plextor cdrom transport available. This included an utility called plextools which could check readerrors on a disc. I was horrified to find that 70.000 read errors on an average music cd was quite common in my collection. I was able to dimish the read errors by polishing / destatting the cd's, this could in the best cases reduce read errors by as much as 90%! Not directly related to Wisnon's DXD remark above but I would choose a digital download over my own rip any day.
 

wisnon

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I would suspect that stuff like :

DeFractionalized Memory: By forcing the data on memory to populate in its original order, DeFractionalized Memory can transform sound to a more analog, natural tone, with increased dynamics, bass and ambient retrieval.
Even a state of bit perfection will allow up to seven bits in a byte to be played out of original order, due to the weakness in the code used for digital audio.


The Clock mapper: The Clock Mapper is an affordable and superior alternative to the costly and antiquated atomic master clock. It is used in recording studios, and now, can be part of your home high end audio system. The Clock Mapper literally isolates all its audio processes to a single clock, removing all jitter from competing processes, by virtue of having no interruptions or conflicts with non-audio demands for clocking.
This cannot be done with a single master clock, because even small distances between components create timing changes. State changes in chips then change this timing infinitely and randomly (dependent upon what is being played), adding to the inductive and capacitive timing changes from using a single master clock.


and IDEAS:After a single use of IDEAS*, your music is transformed. IDEAS removes zeroes between original audio codes -- very common in music stored or played on SSDs or hard drives -- therefore removing the time gaps which manifest as jitter.
The release of subtle and increased ambient information, as well as a dramatic shift toward an 'analog' sound, is heard immediately. All music becomes more lifelike and natural.


as well as Read Until Right (RUR) should make a big differnce in quality to digital playback.

Much of this is implemented in the Much more affordable Mini Streamer ($2500 to 3500) with the top model having 2TBs of Defract storage.

I am interested in feedback on this potential little marvel which features: • “DeFractionalized” wide byte memory
• IDEAS 1
• IDEAS 2
• The Clock Mapper
• RUR CD Copier

The proof of the pudding as always is in the eating, but the high level concepts are compelling. Oh, and it has a blueray player built in as well. .

Taiko...a potential problem of downloads would be "Embedded jitter" and you would something like the IDEAS concept to clean that jumble up, no?
 

Taiko Audio

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That sounds a bit like what the Bughead Emperor software is doing. Although their explanation is more along the lines of refreshing the "0 or 1" charge state.

This description does not make much sense to me from a technical pov, I am however very interested in the actual technology behind this sales pitch.
 

wisnon

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Yes of course its typical Marketingeze, but I am sure there is something there from trusted contacts. The full blown MemPlayer also gets high praises from Clement Perry and other at StereoTimes website.

Maybe you can get more from Mark przillis patents here: http://patents.justia.com/inventor/mark-porzilli

More blurb:
The Memory Player is no ordinary digital audio player. The Memory Player is an intricate and powerful music server that accomplishes its goal through a comprehensive jitter erasure system, which:

1 - Copies music through re-reading from a CD, DVD or music file to a block of Fractionalized Memory,
2 - Eliminates digital volume control losses and other system losses by upsampling to 32 bit audio,
3 - Eliminates jitter-creating signal splitting by playing from a 64 bit sampling
4 - Removes jitter from the music data before you play it (something not possible when playing a moving disc or a file directly),
5 - Using the shortest signal path possible in a DAC, achieves a huge, deep image with air throughout the stage and around each instrument, seemingly unlimited dynamics and a sweet 'analog' tone, never before heard in digital playback.

New Mini review here: http://www.stereotimes.com/post/laufer-teknik-memory-player-mini/
 

Taiko Audio

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Thanks! Those patents do actually explain their line of reasoning. If I got this right, they claim removing "0's", which exist to "fill" a system defined datablock, where there's less data then the actual storage blocksize, reduces timing errors because those "0's" are actually read and added as data in the datastream, causing jitter by changing the resultant data time domain.
 

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