Are We the Last Generation?

[Willgolf]

Just hope your wife doesn't sell your gear for what you told her you paid for it

You hit the nail on the head. Have you been talking my wife... lol.

 

[jeff1225]

Most systems have bookshelf speakers, integrated amps, Technics 1200 tables and streamers.

Self powered speakers are also quite popular.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

What will she do with all of my equipment when I pass?

...my wife knows: just call Carl. He will help you sell everything. It's my audio living will.

 

[NC Lee]

View attachment 102920

Then we die and leave the millennials $XTs.

 

[Bill Hart]

This is a very thoughtful thread. Bill's post and others circle a key issue that isn't quite addressed which namely, is to ask the question, why is the reproduction of music so important to us boomers such that we have often allocated more discretionary spending to reproduce it well in comparison to the subsequent generations? I propose that the answer lies in understanding why the music moved us in the first place.

The way I see it, it was what message of the music that was the driver. The context for this started in the early 60's, particularly with the birth of folks music and the protest music of the Vietnam war. That was the source of so much of what occurred in our lives at the time which eventually that led to many lifestyle changes that persisted with the classic rock era of the 70's and 80's that followed. It was not the easy listening music of Perry Como and Sinatra of the 50's that captivated us, but it was Dylan and the British invasion (Sgt. Pepper is undoubtedly the most important rock album of all-time in the opinion of many) and from there the Doors to you-name-it. Put another way, it was the meaning of the music that spoke to us. It was the voice of a generation- our generation. And by extension, I don't think any subsequent generation (Millennials, X, Z) had music that was as deeply relevant to their eras as ours was to us. To me, our music spoke to us with a gravitas that I don't think the other generations experienced with their music. To this day, I can't listen to Billy Joel sing "Goodnight Saigon" without crying my eyes out. I want to change the radio station when it comes on, but I can't. I'm frozen in time. That's representative of the generational music foxhole I want to be in (along with too many others to be named) and perhaps that's why there was always the devotion to optimize the sound system through which it was played. My sense is that's where so much of the meaning (and joy) of our generation comes from and perhaps that is why the reproduction of it's music has remained so near and dear to us.


Damn, so it was YOU who stole my stereo system back then! How the hell did you fit the Magneplanars in your car?

Interesting observations Marty. I think you are right. What touched me deeply were the blues driven tracks-- some of early Traffic, Zep 1, it was both a release for me and a way forward through a time in my life where music was central- I played (piano/organ) and found this stuff to have meaning for me during a very turbulent period of life. I think that age (mid-to late teens) can be a pretty intense period of growing and experience. I'm sure young people today are just as deeply affected, though the music for them maybe different. I still have a fondness for old blues and "heavy" blues oriented rock, though it is not something I listen to as much.

 

[cjf]

The one thing I always find interesting when I have friends over ( most are like 10yrs younger then me) is the lack of interest in the gear itself. If they have never been over before they just look and maybe make a passing comment on it but I can't recall a single person ever asking about what brand a given component is or what it does or how any of it works. I find this bizarre because its a complete 180deg of myself. I would have many questions if in the same situation. The lack of a TV in my listening room leaves most folks scratching their head equally

A few have asked for advise on gear but in the end they go their own way, even when I have purposely not recommended anything likely considered "expensive" my most non-audiophiles. I just shake my head in private as I think back on it these days.

All these things I find interesting and a bit concerning at the same time. I've willed my gear to my younger brother and sister but I suspect it will get pawned off pretty quickly when I'm gone. This is shame because I would have given a kidney to have that kind of gear when I was younger but what can you do?

I guess my prediction for the future of the Audiophile is not so optimistic. But, at the end of the day, I bought this stuff for ME and I enjoy listening to music for hours on end thru this gear so it will have served my purposes for having it nonetheless.

 

[Wavetouch]

I own a cable and speaker manufacture, Wavetouch audio. I heard many well-known vintage gears from 50's-60's (so called a master piece) and they are musically much better than modern hi-ends. I don't find any master piece in recent decades. New technology makes audio sounds more interesting (I don't mean better. Just interesting) but no musicality. Also, all those interesting sounds are masked by veiled/glare which makes the music dry, thin, and un-natural.

The purpose of hi-end audio is able to faithfully reproduce an original music. No audio company mentions the music anywhere now. Audio companies gave up the music long ago and they only talk about the technology.

In 60's, every body (include wives) enjoyed hi-fi music. Now only audiophiles enjoy hi-fi audio. No wife. Modern hi-fi is getting worse and loosing customers. Now audio industry needs new marketing to survive. They increase the price for riches. They draw people's attention to technology, not music.

New customer = Young People. YP will be customers when the hi-fi sound is good. I hope that happens.
Alex/Wavetouch

 

[Alrainbow]

I think many points raised are true but each point aligns with that persons views
As a child I grew up with music all kinds
while Rock was big I also loved alt genre
Jazz , funk typical black music to me they made music while Pink Floyd or Black Sabbath was not close to that level of entertainment value
I grew up amongst a mixed bag of cultures and to this day look for them more then my own race and music
does anyone remember ghetto blasters or boom boxes
Well I grew with this as my stereo
Had USA brands and German ones telephunkin. Excuse the spelling. same when I got a car
I did get a stereo for my room when a bit older
much later in life I sought a high bro system. this brings another point
back then shops abused there clients and me for sure.
while all my pears loved a good boom box.
the music was some rock but mostly old 50 60 stuff jazz to oldies
today most are into personnel audio I have tons of that
Headphones and ear buds. But here and most look down at this.
so who is buying high end plenty but they sure ain’t my kind
we argue over anything and this is also not good. Imagine a lurker thinking of spending 10k on audio.
two things happen
1- pride of ownership is gone for them and most as high bro ten k power cords make them feel embarrassed
2- next is it’s real purpose this has changed big time
if pride is gone what’s left only just the music and todays stuff non high bro stuff is not music but more statements
I’ll bet some get this but many won’t , I love old flagship stuff it’s simple to me why it’s stuff I could not afford then. it’s stuff that has a meaning even more f it’s 30 years late it’s still a party for me.
I can afford some crazy price stuff but ill
Never be happy with it. I’m just not going to put that much time to get what it can be or deserve
old well that is easy and if I don’t get all
It can be it’s ok.
I don’t know anyone who has a high bro system
Even if they have ext home or boats or cars

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...although the funk sounds good on an awesome system too! No one needs it...but it's nice.

My girlfriend was an evening DJ at a local rock station, and they tossed out all the funk and R&B records. Whaaat? So she brought them home.

I had an awesome record collection, enough to gig at weddings and other events as a DJ. Fun times renting giant Shure tower speakers and lugging all that stuff around in a '73 LeMans.

Between those sides and my mom's old Columbia Record Club vinyl, I had a lot of great stuff. It seemed like music was everywhere. I guess it still is, but it looks different (to me).
Nice post @Alrainbow

 

[Alrainbow]

I was a DJ too. Man the cases of records I just tossed. So dumb but no idea.
great times at clubs I still love disco lol. rock heads hated it like the anti christ Jesus lol. remember the tramps had they play live at club I DJ at man what times.

 

[jeff1225]

I was a DJ too. Man the cases of records I just tossed. So dumb but no idea.
great times at clubs I still love disco lol. rock heads hated it like the anti christ Jesus lol. remember the tramps had they play live at club I DJ at man what times.

When I have parties, the only people that want to touch my record player are DJ's. I never want anyone to touch my player, let alone a DJ, they usually throw the records around during a gig. I always tell them what my needles cost and that back off.....quickly. This ain't no SL1200.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Ha. Really quite funny @jeff1225
Slagging on my TT...the 1975 SL1200! I had to save all my summer house painting money to buy that thing.

It came out in 1970, and still lives. But I know what you mean compared to some of the top-shelf TTs. Nothing but love for you.

That TT was a tank and became the go-to dj spinner way-back. We are bringing the generations together and time traveling on WBF! Too funny...

 

[Al M.]

I own a cable and speaker manufacture, Wavetouch audio. I heard many well-known vintage gears from 50's-60's (so called a master piece) and they are musically much better than modern hi-ends. I don't find any master piece in recent decades. New technology makes audio sounds more interesting (I don't mean better. Just interesting) but no musicality. Also, all those interesting sounds are masked by veiled/glare which makes the music dry, thin, and un-natural.

The purpose of hi-end audio is able to faithfully reproduce an original music. No audio company mentions the music anywhere now. Audio companies gave up the music long ago and they only talk about the technology.

In 60's, every body (include wives) enjoyed hi-fi music. Now only audiophiles enjoy hi-fi audio. No wife. Modern hi-fi is getting worse and loosing customers. Now audio industry needs new marketing to survive. They increase the price for riches. They draw people's attention to technology, not music.

New customer = Young People. YP will be customers when the hi-fi sound is good. I hope that happens.
Alex/Wavetouch

With all due respect, this sounds like a bunch of platitudes to me. I love my modern system which provides a sound that is antithetical to dry, thin and unnatural -- or veiled. It took me a while to make it sing and to remove artifacts of glare (also significant acoustic ones, next to electronic ones), but it can be done. During this journey my system has evolved to sound less "interesting" and more musical. I have unamplified live music as a reference, so I know what musicality should sound like and I model my system towards that sound. The system is in my signature (if you're on the phone you need to rotate it sideways to make the signature visible).

And as has been pointed out in this thread, there are reasons why young people don't buy speaker systems. There are lots of young headphone enthusiasts who care about sound quality and are able to get it. Nothing wrong with that. I started out as a headphone enthusiast myself, back in the day. And yes, you can now get better sound for less money.

No need to yearn for the good ole days, which were old, yes, but not necessarily that good. Life has gotten better, from the food in restaurants to cars that don't break down anymore for no good reason, to having the knowledge of the world literally at your fingertips. Just to name a few things. I don't spend my energy romanticizing the past. I live in the present and enjoy every bit of it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The purpose of hi-end audio is able to faithfully reproduce an original music.

I don't think any audio system can "faithfully reproduce an original music [performance]." I'll suggest that what you really mean is "recreate the sound of an original musical event."

But you're assuming that your personal objective is the only objective, and that every audiophile has embraced your personal objective.

In fact my restatement of your objective is but one of several possible objectives of high-end audio.

 

[jeff1225]

Ha. Really quite funny @jeff1225
Slagging on my TT...the 1975 SL1200! I had to save all my summer house painting money to buy that thing.

It came out in 1970, and still lives. But I know what you mean compared to some of the top-shelf TTs. Nothing but love for you.

That TT was a tank and became the go-to dj spinner way-back. We are bringing the generations together and time traveling on WBF! Too funny...

I actually have an SL1200, they are quite fabulous........and indestructible. That's what my comment was about, how fragile audiophile turntables are. I should have been more clear.

 

[Wavetouch]

Wavetouch said:
The purpose of hi-end audio is able to faithfully reproduce an original music.

Ron Resnick​

I don't think any audio system can "faithfully reproduce an original music [performance]." I'll suggest that what you really mean is "recreate the sound of an original musical event."

That's right. No reproduction audio can truly able to replace the original music. We can only try to get closer.

Ron Resnick​

In fact my restatement of your objective is but one of several possible objectives of high-end audio.

That is true too. Especially nowadays, there are other ways audiophiles can enjoy interesting sound other than pursuit the original sound only.
Alex/Wavetouch

 

[Alrainbow]

I have two old tables. Td124 and Td125 and a new sota flagship
Ron said a very truthful comment thats nails on a chalk board. while we feel emotion in our systems it’s not due to it being real
I think it’s due to pure love of the music.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I'm not saying the world will come to an end when I'm gone. Or that there will be no hi-fi. But, most of us, a lot anyway, are geezers. We came up in a world where almost everybody had a stereo system- not necessarily the best- maybe a changer or plastic-y turntable, receiver and some bookshelf speakers. It was part of being an adult. Some of us went beyond the norm-- perhaps to the level of crazy-- but we came up in a culture that prized that and there was a physical, not just online community, at least in places where I lived.
I think today is different. I'm sure the NYC market is different than it was when it was booming in the '80s. And of course, there is the uber gear, (some of which is blue sky and/or may not be for the casual enthusiast, whatever) but it is a different world now. As most of you know, I'm now in Austin which is a "young" town- the university here is huge and casts a big profile, and there is a ton of tech here of all sorts-- and money. Construction is like gold rush towns. But, even these folks who have money don't necessarily think of hi-fi as important in their lives. (My impression, not a scientific study). The younger generations may earn, but have different priorities- housing, for one, is quite expensive. And I wonder whether we may be the last of a generation who managed over decades to afford to refine our systems, our listening skills, our interest. Some of us have been at this for 1/2 a century.
As you likely know, the "pro" side and studios aren't necessarily the same as hi-fi. They address different needs. There is not much retail hi-fi on the ground here despite the influx of some affluent folks. Obviously, I don't know what's hidden behind the closed doors of a craftsman cottage or run down victorian mansion. Record sales here seem to be good, but that's not all audiophile; I'd guess most of it isn't.
Are we the last generation who grew up with hifi for the pursuit of best sound? And for various reasons, were able to realize that?
Know that I'm of the view that the mass market is based on convenience and cost, and think that has always been so.
And you guys lean toward the hi-end. So, this might resonate, I dunno. I think many of us are of a certain age, too.
I don't mean to be a buzzkill about this-- it's just that I'm thinking about how the world is changing and one of the important things in my life may not be as important to as many as our generation passes on. (BTW, I did leave instructions about the viking funeral, with burning pyre on a ship, horned helmet, and Steppenwolf at high db).

Hi, that's a very interesting topic of discussion. And you may be right - many users nowadays are pleased with simple True Wireless buds or Bluetooth speakers. However, the good news for Hi-Fi, is that the budget section of the market is expanding more and more rapidly, thus making the quality sound more accessible to users with lesser budgets. Myself, I know plenty of people from the younger generations that are fascinated with audio gear, and that always gives me hope for the further development of audio. At the end of the day - I think the most important aspect of the discussion is our love for music. That's why we are all here. No matter how many or how few people are into high-quality gear, we have our passions, and that's crucial.

 

[Alrainbow]

but the topic is not about the music alone in fact as I read this it’s about ownership or said another way pride
anyone who builds speakers or boats gets this and
I tip my hat to them. to old stuff is what they made
New is not the same. yet to have old we need a market for new products lol.
Office space is no longer needed where it was
Those who cling to it are staying in the past
now some companies like mine need this space.
but not all.

 

[Bill Hart]

What I wrote initially was not about the music, as such. It was more about the importance of traditional hi-fi set ups and the culture around them. I do believe that a lot of modern inexpensive gear is probably much better than entry level from the '60s or '70s- though I also remember stuff like Dynaco, the old AR table; the speakers that were being promoted by the time I got into the hobby- call it 1970-- were for the most part relatively inefficient bookshelves (leaving aside JBL 100s). The big Bozaks, EVs, K-horns were dinosaurs. I knew a few DIY'ers who were into older gear at that time, but they were the fringe.
A few folks upthread have already pointed out that there are new generations, maybe they are just as passionate, but don't do it the same way. On the cultural aspect, somebody on another board was asking about classical music. I'm dating myself but remember going on field trips to hear Wm. Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony, we had music classes in school whether or not you played an instrument, along with band, and orchestra. To me, that was part of a culture that is largely absent now too--I had a neighbor back in NY whose business was running music classes as a third party vendor to school systems- they simply couldn't afford to hire full time staff to teach this stuff.
I'm also fully willing to accept the fact that I should leave the basement more often.