as your system improves do you hear more and more flaws in recordings?

[microstrip]

Dear Mep: SR " Way Out West " ...
Today?, well we have " tons " of recordings that are IMHO not only way better than that SR LP but that made that the SR one be on the " mediocrity " on sound quality...
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Raul,
Opinions are just opinions, but stating that "Way Out West " to be on the " mediocrity " on sound quality" is really a strong statement.

I own the "Way Out West" Analogue Productions LP version of this LP and consider it one of my best LPs. It reproduces the ambiance of the period and the performance conditions in an unique way. In my system these Roy DuNann recordings recreate a musical moment, complemented by reading adequated doccumentation, in a unique way.

I don not want to enter a dispute on sound quality, as I own and enjoy several of the very good ECM recordings you refer. You may prefer the refined studio acoustics and the microphone setup of Keith Jarrett or Pat Metheny recordings, but stating that these are "high sound quality" and WOW is "mediocre" just suggests you have a strong bias against this old recording.

 

[silviajulieta]

Raul,
Opinions are just opinions, but stating that "Way Out West " to be on the " mediocrity " on sound quality" is really a strong statement.

I own the "Way Out West" Analogue Productions LP version of this LP and consider it one of my best LPs. It reproduces the ambiance of the period and the performance conditions in an unique way. In my system these Roy DuNann recordings recreate a musical moment, complemented by reading adequated doccumentation, in a unique way.

I don not want to enter a dispute on sound quality, as I own and enjoy several of the very good ECM recordings you refer. You may prefer the refined studio acoustics and the microphone setup of Keith Jarrett or Pat Metheny recordings, but stating that these are "high sound quality" and WOW is "mediocre" just suggests you have a strong bias against this old recording.

Dear microstrip: As you said opinions are just opinions and I respect yours even that I don't agree with.

+++++ " is "mediocre" just suggests you have a strong bias against this old recording. " +++++

no Sir I did not, I have a strong bias for EXCELLENCE ( nothing less. ) and IMHO that recording is way way faraway from EXCELLENCE level in that quality sound topic.

It is clear for me for what you posted that your target on quality sound level is different than mine and this is all about: we don't have to debate on that subject.

As I posted I admire SR but yes IMHO that WOW is a poor and mediocre recording against the best today ones. Btw, I writed ECM KJ and PM recordings because those ones were what comes to my mind in that moment: maybe not the very best and top quality sound recorded level but better than the WOW.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

 

[mullard88]

It's more of the good things most of the time. Flaws are unmasked if the source components' quality does not keep up with the rest of the chain or if the source components are not set up properly. Otherwise, it is for the better. One could also set up a superior system at the other end of the room which will bring to light all the weaknesses of the first set-up.

 

[JackD201]

One could also set up a superior system at the other end of the room which will bring to light all the weaknesses of the first set-up.

Makes me thankful we humans have the ability to recalibrate ourselves so we can go back to enjoying our own systems no matter how fantastic an experience is elsewhere!

 

[mullard88]

Right on! I also have my poor memory to thank.

 

[Gregadd]

Jack it's not quite that easy. I still have not recalibrated form visiting Steve.

 

[JackD201]

It took me a while too especially because of the R2R experience. You could chew on the image density.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I own the "Way Out West" Analogue Productions LP version of this LP and consider it one of my best LPs. It reproduces the ambiance of the period and the performance conditions in an unique way. In my system these Roy DuNann recordings recreate a musical moment, complemented by reading adequated doccumentation, in a unique way.

Do you know if this is a re-master of the original album and if this re-master is available as a digital file or on a CD? I'd love to have a better-sounding version of WOW.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Nevermind, I found it. It appears to be a unique re-master from the original 2-track. A good thing that could represent a substantial improvement. One more question: Do you know if "Hybrid Stereo SACD" means there is a redbook layer?

Tim

 

[microstrip]

Nevermind, I found it. It appears to be a unique re-master from the original 2-track. A good thing that could represent a substantial improvement. One more question: Do you know if "Hybrid Stereo SACD" means there is a redbook layer?

Tim

Tim,
Hybrid Stereo CACD should have a DSD layer and a CD layer for backwards compatibility.

You can read some details about these AP releases at :

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue2/ccrsacd.htm

 

[mep]

I just received my copy of the February issue of TAS today and there was a "letter to the editor" written by someone who hates tubes and LPs and talked about how digital trounces LPs. I found it interesting to read Robert Harley's reply that he had a "visiting manufacturer" at his house and they were listening to an expensive digtial set up ("mid five-figure DAC") and then they switched over to analog. Guess what Robert played? Sonny Rollins Way Out West. I never meant to imply that WOW is the best sounding album of all time. Just the fact that it is a damn good sounding album specially when you realize it was recorded over 50 years ago. If you personally don't think it sounds good, I can promise you that you either have a bad copy or something is amiss in your system. You can read Robert's comments for yourself.

 

[silviajulieta]

I just received my copy of the February issue of TAS today and there was a "letter to the editor" written by someone who hates tubes and LPs and talked about how digital trounces LPs. I found it interesting to read Robert Harley's reply that he had a "visiting manufacturer" at his house and they were listening to an expensive digtial set up ("mid five-figure DAC") and then they switched over to analog. Guess what Robert played? Sonny Rollins Way Out West. I never meant to imply that WOW is the best sounding album of all time. Just the fact that it is a damn good sounding album specially when you realize it was recorded over 50 years ago. If you personally don't think it sounds good, I can promise you that you either have a bad copy or something is amiss in your system. You can read Robert's comments for yourself.

Dear Mep: As I posted I own the original LP and both AP versions: the 33rpm and the 45rpm. No I don't thiink I have a bad copy or something amiss in my system that provoke that not great LP performance. My system is not a perfect system and has its own limitations but IMHO it has lower distortions than the average top high end audio systems, maybe this helps for I can discern with more " accuracy " what I'm hearing through.

I respect the people at TAS by are not my reference on quality sound performance level discern and we have to take in count that IMHO digital source is more sensible to distortions ( that disturb digital quality performance level. ) somewhere in an audio system than analog source that normally " hide " distortions due to its higher/self distortions than digital.

Anyway, if for you/Microstrip and other persons think WOW is a very good recording ( almost a reference ) against not only other recordings of those old times but against today great recordings that's fine with me.

Btw, do you already compared that L.Amstrong recording I named against the WOW or that So What tenor performance on Kind Blue? what do you think?. or: do you already compare WOW against any of those today recordings I posted? what do you think about?

For me it is not what TAS " posted " but what you heard/hear and that's why those recordings comparisons are important and relevant to the WOW quality performance level subject. It is not either whom is right: you or me, as I said it is what you heard/hear through those recording comparisons in your own system.

For me too this WOW " damn good sounding album " it is not. I would like to know which was the first " important " person/reviewer that posted that WOW myth and why he did it because after him many of us were thinking in the same way. Yes in the past I thinked was a great recording till I ask me: why everyone told/said that? is it a great sound quality recording? is it? and I found out that IMHO was not a great recording but an average one ( almost on the mediocrity. ) against other true very good vintage recordings or great today ones.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

 

[mep]

Raul,
If you seriously think that WOW sounds "almost on the mediocrity" as you said, good for you. You obviously have one of those systems that is like some of this forum's experts that has reached the point where your system is so good that recordings now all sound bad. Congratulations and enjoy the music. I know I am.

MEP

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Raul,
If you seriously think that WOW sounds "almost on the mediocrity" as you said, good for you. You obviously have one of those systems that is like some of this forum's experts that has reached the point where your system is so good that recordings now all sound bad. Congratulations and enjoy the music. I know I am.

MEP

I don't think I have one of those systems, but I do have one upon which Saxophone Colossus, Kind of Blue, Somethin' Else, Time Out, Maiden Voyage, 'Round About Midnight, Sketches of Spain, Brilliant Corners and many, many more sound better than Way Out West. I've never considered it a good sonic example from the period. Not on the original vinyl. Not on the standard CD. But perhaps you have a much better master.

Tim

 

[silviajulieta]

Raul,
If you seriously think that WOW sounds "almost on the mediocrity" as you said, good for you. You obviously have one of those systems that is like some of this forum's experts that has reached the point where your system is so good that recordings now all sound bad. Congratulations and enjoy the music. I know I am.

MEP

Dear Mep: Well not exactly, I think that when you have a high resolution low distortions system a good recording will sounds better but some recordings that " hides " inside " high " system distortions when you improved that system lowering those distortions could and can appear its " true " that could be a not so good sound quality ( like the WOW example. ) or a great one like the L.Amstrong recording.

That in a low distortion system a bad recording could be listenable does not means that that bad recording is a good recording only because the improvements in your system made it listenable, no IMHO it states as a bad recording but now your system give you the advantage that even bad recordings can be listenable, that's all.

I think " WOW is " almost on mediocrity " against the best ever vintage and today greatest recordings and I don't say it is a bad recording either, if I remember I said it was on the average quality sound side that for me is where mediocrity belongs.

Btw, I made you very specific questions about WOW against other recordings and you don't give any answer yet: could you share those experiences?, thank you.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

 

[mep]

Tim/Raul-Do either one of you not here the distortion that takes place throughout portions of KOB?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim/Raul-Do either one of you not here the distortion that takes place throughout portions of KOB?

Yes, I hear it. Mostly horns over-driving microphones periodically. When I talk about the quality of the recording of KOB, I'm referring to the overall sound and ambience. I know it is not free of error; few of the classic jazz recordings from that era are. But I prefer the sound of KOB, warts and all, to the master of WOW I own.

Tim

 

[microstrip]

I think " WOW is " almost on mediocrity " against the best ever vintage and today greatest recordings and I don't say it is a bad recording either

Raul,
Could you list the titties of "the best ever vintage and today greatest recordings" you are using in this comparison? It would be much more interesting than just discussing our own preferences in broad undefined terms.

BTW, I am a non native english speaker - witer - as you, and sometimes find that words have a deeper meaning than we think - mediocrity can have have a pejorative connotation.

 

[Robert]

What's the definition of vintage? Pre-1990? Or are we going way back to before 1980?

 

[silviajulieta]

Dear Microstrip: Someway or the other I did it when I listed some LPs that I consider better recordings than the WOW.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.