Audio engineer Bob Katz argues that 83 dB is the correct level. See, for example, https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/
At What SPL Do You Listen to Your Stereo?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Hi!
Are you suggesting that Bob Katz argues that 83dB is the correct level for playback in the home? Where do you see that in the article?
Sorry, but I don't know what you guys are talking about. Calibrating a monitor to a film standard is an answer to a totally different question than "what is the ideal SPL playback level in the home?"
I read the article in the link. It does not address ideal SPL playback level in the home.
I read the article in the link. It does not address ideal SPL playback level in the home.
Is he talking about to music for enjoyment/appreciation or for studio production practices? I’ve visited a number of studios and the volume they were listening to with monitors 3-4 feet from ears was insane!
For me, an average of 83 DB would be on the loud side long term, considering that for less compressed recordings, that would make much of the louder passages well into the mid 90s with peaks higher. I think my personal midpoint would settle more around 78 DB. I have efficient speakers and amplification which communicates every nuance and dynamic at lower levels where it doesn’t need to be played so loud to hear everything in all it’s subtleties and drama.
I feel sure many professionals are suffering significant hearing loss from the daily high volume levels they’re working in.
I don’t see how this makes any sense with regards to music listening at home. The level I set my preamp to reach the same Spl can vary quite a bit from recording to recording. Calibrating home listening levels on a pink noise setting would result in many recordings being too quiet or too loud.
In film sound chains, there are no 'listening volume controls'. The procedure where -20dB pink noise = 80dB SPL is a fixed level which is not changed except by the maintenance engineers who set it before a film mix - film mixers cannot turn the listening volume up and down like they can in a music recording studio. This makes sense for film soundtrack mixing since it gives a standardized listening level in movie theaters, assuming the candy girl doesn't muck with the playback levels in the projection booth.
One of the great shames of high-end audio is that there are no standards at either the recording or reproduction end. This has led to what Toole/Olive have called the "Audio Circle of Confusion." Audiophiles throw huge sums of money at systems where they have not a clue as to whether the sound they hear from any recording is the sound that was intended. Some use "reference" recordings to build a "good sounding" system which, while sounding reasonably well balanced on a few personal such "reference"recordings may not sound nearly so pleasing on the vast bulk of commercial recordings. Bob Katz has for years been trying to move the audio industry in the direction of adopting some standards at the mastering end so as to reduce this problem.
If you want to hear a recording the way the mastering engineer decided it should be heard, one of the major standards to implement must be playback SPL at the listening seat. If you listen at home at a lower level, even if your equipment, room, and room treatment matches that in use in the studio, what you hear at home will not sound like what the engineer heard, especially in the bass end, due to simple Fletcher Munson effects.
What Bob Katz has observed is that in the film arena where recording and playback levels were standardized so that 0 dB on a certain type of meter resulted in 83 dB SPL, most all the audio professionals in a theater audience of over 1000 such professionals believed that the playback level was "just right." See the section of the article titled "The Magic of 83 with Film Mixes." Granted, a theater, being a much larger room than we use for home playback, may skew our judgement of appropriate playback levels.
Katz also talks in the next section of his article article I cited about the "magic" for home listening of standardizing on a meter calibration of minus 6 dB or 77 dB for home listening. As I read his article, this has to do at least partly with the greater amount of compression applied in audio recordings compared to films. More compressed recordings sound overall louder than less compressed ones.
As the final paragraph of the Audio Circle of Confusion article says: "The key in breaking the circle of confusion lies in the hands of the professional audio industry where the art is created. A meaningful standard that defined the quality and calibration of the loudspeaker and room would improve the quality and consistency of recordings. The same standard could then be applied to the playback of the recording in the consumer’s home or automobile. Finally, consumers would be able to hear the music as the artist intended."
That's probably just a dream at this point. We are really no closer to this goal of standardizing either the recording or playback end now than in the 1950s when some of the recordings still used by some audiophiles as "reference" recordings today (e.g., RCA Living Stereo Shaded Dog pressings) were first released.
If you want to hear a recording the way the mastering engineer decided it should be heard, one of the major standards to implement must be playback SPL at the listening seat. If you listen at home at a lower level, even if your equipment, room, and room treatment matches that in use in the studio, what you hear at home will not sound like what the engineer heard, especially in the bass end, due to simple Fletcher Munson effects.
What Bob Katz has observed is that in the film arena where recording and playback levels were standardized so that 0 dB on a certain type of meter resulted in 83 dB SPL, most all the audio professionals in a theater audience of over 1000 such professionals believed that the playback level was "just right." See the section of the article titled "The Magic of 83 with Film Mixes." Granted, a theater, being a much larger room than we use for home playback, may skew our judgement of appropriate playback levels.
Katz also talks in the next section of his article article I cited about the "magic" for home listening of standardizing on a meter calibration of minus 6 dB or 77 dB for home listening. As I read his article, this has to do at least partly with the greater amount of compression applied in audio recordings compared to films. More compressed recordings sound overall louder than less compressed ones.
As the final paragraph of the Audio Circle of Confusion article says: "The key in breaking the circle of confusion lies in the hands of the professional audio industry where the art is created. A meaningful standard that defined the quality and calibration of the loudspeaker and room would improve the quality and consistency of recordings. The same standard could then be applied to the playback of the recording in the consumer’s home or automobile. Finally, consumers would be able to hear the music as the artist intended."
That's probably just a dream at this point. We are really no closer to this goal of standardizing either the recording or playback end now than in the 1950s when some of the recordings still used by some audiophiles as "reference" recordings today (e.g., RCA Living Stereo Shaded Dog pressings) were first released.
Any hope of a 'standardized' listening level goes out the window however when taking into account the practice of brick-wall limiting/compression used mostly on popular music. Subjectively a highly compressed track will sound 'louder' at a lower absolute SPL than a non-compressed track. Until we can convince recording studios to jettison their compressors, whether hardware or software, then we'll never get close to any sort of playback level standardization. And the use of compression is not a recent development - studios have used compressors since forever (having been a recording engineer myself, I'm as guilty as anyone else). Software brick wall limiting/compression however takes this to a new extreme.
Beyond that, even in home theater environments where there are supposed to be standard playback levels, I have seen probably more than 50% of actual listeners playing back at lower levels than 'standard, if for no other reason than to preserve their hearing.
Does this make sense to you? What is your typical personal home listening C-weighted SPL on symphony orchestra classical music?
No i heard only the big phono from wall audio sounds realy good.
I took a look at the power amplifiers. They usually use an ECC82 in the input. The ECC82 has the lowest gain of the 80s tube family. Normally there are few problems with the volume. I use phase audio and welter 6cc33 power amps. They sound softer in the high& midrange than, for example, EL 34 amps. But the bass is world class, deep and punchy, I like it a lot.
P.S
if someone changed the feedback of the amp that can cause something like what you describe
Last edited:
Similar threads
