Attitude towards and costs of the hobby

[JayR]

+1

Most of my purchases have been in the used market. I have also supported local dealers by buying new (Devialet, Rega) as they allowed me to audition the products and provided information and support. Personally, I do not like to audition products in a store and then buy used elsewhere. Seems a bit unfair IMO. However, with the prices involved, it might be the only way to do it. Unfortunate.

 

[thedudeabides]

I'm down to playing with wire and perhaps, an occasional tube. Still fun but not very expensive.

Done on the major hardware side of the equation.

 

[cjfrbw]

There obviously will always be a segment that NEED to spend the money for showboating as well that sense of grandiosity and exclusivity. Those would be the audiophile country club and Grey Poupon axis. It makes things confusing because there are diamond and gold studded systems that ought to sound good, but don't. The audio critics are in the business of flogging them as if novelty and high cost will lead to audio success.

Add in the common OC disorders of audiophilia, and the marketeers who exploit it, you have a very strange hobby, indeed, with massive amounts of misdirection.

I went with a lot of "old tech" just because I think it sounds better. As I have told visitors, amplifiers that are nearly 40 years old, and tubes that are 50 to 90 years old. Preamps are newer, but are based on vintage tech with tubes 'n transformers.

I used to be able to sell my older stuff pretty easily, but have found in the last few years, that I practically have to give it away to sell it. I still have some nice pieces that I intermittently try to market, maybe just to get the tire kickers who offer half of the one third I am asking.

I don't believe the guys who claim to break even, unless they are getting promotional consideration when they buy and sell soon enough that the items are still "hot" for the fashionistas.

I will never argue with results. There are expensive systems that deliver. I think the question is, do they have to be that expensive to deliver.

 

[LL21]

True, Jay, but as Kedar has been suggesting, with (admittedly very time-consuming) careful auditioning and component matching and speaker/room matching, and with judicious used market purchasing, you can assemble a system which can produce amazing sound for a fraction of $30,000 to $50,000. LL21 has been a master of judicious and patient used-market shopping for top-tier components, and he has an amazing system for a fraction of MSRP.

Hey Ron. i think you hit on the right words 'time consuming' and 'patient'. Impulse buying in audio can be a recipe for disaster. Measure twice, cut once. but it takes not just a lot of listening, reading, asking, trying, auditioning...it also takes a lot of mental processing of all of this so that one can determine 'what sound do i want and what are my priorities'?

If you know those things, it can be incredibly surprising how amazing a system one can build for not much money because it delivers the 'balance' and priorities of what you want. Although i cannot say i would be anywhere near as happy with my very first Celestion SL6si speakers and system...because its performance level falls short on all counts relative to my current system...i CAN say that i am pretty confident its priorities and balance are quite close to what we listen to now.

 

[Al M.]

There is a lot of truth and accurate perception and market analysis here!

Agreed!

I don't care about prestige, I care only about sound quality, and now preferably at low prices.

Surprisingly (for myself), I have gone the way of factory direct lately, but at my price levels risk is low. My last blind purchases from factory direct (that in itself cuts half the price right there), the BorderPatrol MB external power supplies for my amps ($ 4K combined), and the Reference 3A monitors ($ 3K), were wildly successful, far beyond expectations. See my WBF reviews:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...trol-MB-external-power-supplies-for-tube-amps

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20786-Review-Reference-3A-MM-de-Capo-BE-monitors

I am now seriously considering another factory direct, the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, at just 2,300 bucks. All the reviews point to common themes: resolution, resolution, resolution, as well as lack of digititis and giant beater. It seems to lift way beyond its price class. The Computer Audiophile review of the DAC is interesting, there are also juicy technical details that I find intriguing (it's an R2R ladder multibit DAC). The designer and co-owner of Schiit (gotta love that name), Mike Moffat, is of Theta Digital fame. That whole thing has become a completely different story for me than my previous plan of plonking down big bucks for a Rossini DAC. Perhaps that's going to happen after all in some distant future, but not without the Yggdrasil adventure. And possibly it stops there.

 

[bonzo75]

Hey Ron. i think you hit on the right words 'time consuming' and 'patient'. Impulse buying in audio can be a recipe for disaster. Measure twice, cut once. but it takes not just a lot of listening, reading, asking, trying, auditioning...it also takes a lot of mental processing of all of this so that one can determine 'what sound do i want and what are my priorities'?

If you know those things, it can be incredibly surprising how amazing a system one can build for not much money because it delivers the 'balance' and priorities of what you want. Although i cannot say i would be anywhere near as happy with my very first Celestion SL6si speakers and system...because its performance level falls short on all counts relative to my current system...i CAN say that i am pretty confident its priorities and balance are quite close to what we listen to now.

Hi Lloyd, I agree on that processing. Part of listening around is processing. When I go gaga over a component, people ask me why am I not buying it. Finances aside, my answer is next 6 months (or 3 - 4 additional demos of it) will really tell. It is the final component only if it stands tall after repeated exposure and despite discovery of other products.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd, I agree on that processing. Part of listening around is processing. When I go gaga over a component, people ask me why am I not buying it. Finances aside, my answer is next 6 months (or 3 - 4 additional demos of it) will really tell. It is the final component only if it stands tall after repeated exposure and despite discovery of other products.

Absolutely.

 

[Al M.]

I respect the fact that you track your money carefully! I also track it. I know exactly how much i have spent on all audio equipment since my first boombox in 10th grade (that one cost $83).

As for the longevity of your choices, you have me beat. Since 1993, I have had 4 proper systems...each one being 'fully evolved' before I decided to embark on upgrading it all to the 'next level' which I aspired to.

My CD players or CD playback combos changed that often as well, or more so. The sequence was:

Cambridge CD3 > Meridian 208 > Meridian 602/606 > Wadia 8/12 > Simaudio Moon DT 260 transport/Berkeley Alpha 2 DAC.

I did go through the sequence of the first four in just three year's time and stuck with the Wadia 8/12 for 20 years.

My next upgrade would be another DAC, but I am now considering a cheap one that hopefully is better than my current one, even though it costs only half the price, the Schiit Yggdrasil (see my post above). If it's not I can still return it within 15 days for a 5 % restocking fee, but at the price of the DAC that fee is only 115 bucks.

In the end, i enjoy the music, but i admit i also enjoy the system itself and how well it reproduces the music. When that bass wallop comes, i enjoy the bass note...but i also enjoy that the system is doing the wallop!

Same here. I think that comes with the territory of being an audiophile. Even if you are mainly a music lover, you still listen to some recordings just because you enjoy how good they sound on your system.

 

[LL21]

...Wadia 8/12 > Simaudio Moon DT 260 transport/Berkeley Alpha 2 DAC.

I...stuck with the Wadia 8/12 for 20 years.

...I am now considering a cheap one that hopefully is better than my current one, even though it costs only half the price, the Schiit Yggdrasil (see my post above). If it's not I can still return it within 15 days for a 5 % restocking fee, but at the price of the DAC that fee is only 115 bucks.

... Even if you are mainly a music lover, you still listen to some recordings just because you enjoy how good they sound on your system.

Wadia was great stuff while they were around. i have read your posts about Schiit and that certainly sounds interesting. As for recordings, I have to say that really good records to allow us to hear more nuances and get more insight into the music...and lets face it, nuances and insight is where the magic is in 'ordinary musicians' and those who produce 'magic'.

Now i fully acknowledge that more insight into an ordinary musician playing music is still not going to be Vladimir Horowitz...but i feel it DOES help in that you feel like you can really bite off and chew on the music. A scratchy, barely listenable recording of Horowitz may [barely] allow us to enjoy his magnificent piano skills...but you certainly may lose hearing his use of pedals or the exact precision of his fingering/pressure on the keys. Meanwhile, a remarkable recording of a 'solid pianist' might reveal all manner of subtleties. And thus, the audiophile recording music in this case could score as many 'points' musically as the scratchy 1940 recording of a master.

 

[NorthStar]