Colin, I'm sorry I'm not there with you! Will you be in Munich? We can meet at WVL exhibit or perhaps catch lunch or dinner. Have a great rest of the show in Chicagoland!!!
Marty you too!
Axpona 22’ pictures
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Marty you too!
!
I was there today (Saturday). This was my first audio show, and I don't have much in the way of detailed impressions, but...
--My favorite room, by far, was the Avantgarde Trios. They just kept me riveted. The scale (yup, huge), the effortlessness, dynamics, atmosphere, and detail--I didn't want to leave the couch. I continue to really enjoy horns generally.
--Borresen floorstanders with Aavik electronics was quite strong.
--Volti Audio Razz with a Border Patrol integrated and DAC set-up was effortless and engaging. Not bright at all.
--I liked a Perilsten set-up, but don't recall the electronics.
--In an adjacent room, I was surprised to really enjoy a semi-modest pair of Q Acoustics Concept 500 floorstanders. Pretty modest Cyrus front end, too, with an English Electric (new brand to me) tube power amp.
--I was undecided on Tannoy Kensingtons. Heard them in a couple rooms, and though they were solid, I continue to maybe find Tannoy Legacy stuff a little dark for my taste.
--Popped in and out of a few of the big rooms, and thought they were all mostly fine. I suspect the big rooms are just the toughest acoustically.
--Also thought there were some good set-ups with Marten and TAD speakers. Heard the Devore Gibbon Super Nines and thought they were really nicely balanced, though maybe a little polite. This room was playing by far the most interesting music, so was glad for that.
Again, this was my first audio show. I ended up having a good time in the end. It was a little crowded, and I'm sure will be a Covid super-spreader (yay). The experience was somewhat tempered by my lack of interest in much of the music (various audiophile chestnuts) selected for the demos.
When I walked into a room and the host was playing a track I actively enjoy (Morphine, "Good"), my spirits were very much raised.
[[Edit: I get why people would want to hear "reference tracks," and that my (mild) complaint about their over-use is common. There were just more of them than I expected.]]
--My favorite room, by far, was the Avantgarde Trios. They just kept me riveted. The scale (yup, huge), the effortlessness, dynamics, atmosphere, and detail--I didn't want to leave the couch. I continue to really enjoy horns generally.
--Borresen floorstanders with Aavik electronics was quite strong.
--Volti Audio Razz with a Border Patrol integrated and DAC set-up was effortless and engaging. Not bright at all.
--I liked a Perilsten set-up, but don't recall the electronics.
--In an adjacent room, I was surprised to really enjoy a semi-modest pair of Q Acoustics Concept 500 floorstanders. Pretty modest Cyrus front end, too, with an English Electric (new brand to me) tube power amp.
--I was undecided on Tannoy Kensingtons. Heard them in a couple rooms, and though they were solid, I continue to maybe find Tannoy Legacy stuff a little dark for my taste.
--Popped in and out of a few of the big rooms, and thought they were all mostly fine. I suspect the big rooms are just the toughest acoustically.
--Also thought there were some good set-ups with Marten and TAD speakers. Heard the Devore Gibbon Super Nines and thought they were really nicely balanced, though maybe a little polite. This room was playing by far the most interesting music, so was glad for that.
Again, this was my first audio show. I ended up having a good time in the end. It was a little crowded, and I'm sure will be a Covid super-spreader (yay). The experience was somewhat tempered by my lack of interest in much of the music (various audiophile chestnuts) selected for the demos.
When I walked into a room and the host was playing a track I actively enjoy (Morphine, "Good"), my spirits were very much raised.
[[Edit: I get why people would want to hear "reference tracks," and that my (mild) complaint about their over-use is common. There were just more of them than I expected.]]
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To begin, I’d like to reminisce a bit about Audio shows. I’ve been going to CES almost annually for about 40 years. Immediately after medical school, I opened an audio store in Pasadena California and looked forward to attending the landmark Chicago CES every year (which was held in the early summer) as well as the “big show” in Las Vegas in January. The late 70’s and 80’s were heady days for the high end. It’s when it established it’s voice and became part of the firmament in our world of audio. What I remember the most was the energy and creativity of those that moved the path forward. We walked the halls of the main shows and the satellite shows such as THE Show and we couldn’t get enough. Our world was full of exciting and interesting innovators. Arnie Nudell, Bill Johnson, Nelson Pass, Joe Grado, John Iverson, Jim Bongiorno- the list was endless. We read Gordon Holt and HP and memorized their every word. As acolytes, we couldn’t get enough. Acquaintances became life-long friends. Fellow hobbyists were a brotherhood. We were all young and relatively poor. We modified gear extensively, bought what we could afford, and always aspired to own “next great thing” that would take us inevitably one step closer to the sonic truth. CES was always a party and we had the time of our lives. Decades followed and we became more affluent. In the blink of an eye, or so it seems, we now routinely buy gear that have so many zeroes in the price tag that nobody could conceive of such gear at the time and what’s more- such gear couldn’t possibly exist. EVER. The last audio show I attended was AXPONA 2019 and I enjoyed it. I still had fun. I was still receptive to exploring new gear and new ways to enjoy the hobby. Streaming was becoming a staple. And Roon changed my life. The world’s musical library at one’s fingertips was suddenly easily accessed with the push of a button. There wasn’t much not too like!
Which brings us to AXPONA 2022. Honestly, I’m not sure why my feelings have changed so much this year. Sure, I loved seeing old friends in the hallway as well as dealers and manufacturers. But my sense was that the energy of old was just not there. There was not a lot there that was new, at least for me. Is that because my system has gotten to the point that big jumps have largely been replaced by incremental improvements? Well, perhaps in part. But still, my overall sense was that the “it” factor I loved at many past shows was nowhere to be found. After all, how excited can you get by trying to listen to tiny dots a little bigger than the size of Jujyfruit being placed on the walls or loudspeakers and expecting a sonic hosanna? Nonsense. In fact, although I heard some nice sounds, overall, it was frankly an overall disappointing experience. In fact, I actually chose to leave a day early. Frankly, there just wasn’t enough there to hold my interest for 3 days.
Also, perhaps in part, was the fact that the night before the show began on Friday, I attended the Chicago Symphony Orchestra’s performance in Symphony Hall of Mahler’s 6th conducted by Jaap Van Zweden.
As I often feel after attending a concert at Carnegie, I just want to turn the stereo off for a day or two while the memory of a live performance is fresh in my brain. It’s just not fair to compare live symphonic music to a reproduced facsimile, as good as it may be. Since we had what were arguably the finest seats in the hall (and therefore some would say, the world, as far as concert hall seats!) in the center of the lower Fadim balcony, it was easy to be non-plussed by going from room to room the next two days to listen to mostly mediocre audio systems. So there’s that. (As an aside, Jaap is a damn good Mahlerite. I lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth for 8 years and was a regular at the DSO which he led during that time. A few years after I left DFW for NJ, he became the conductor of the NY Phil so again, I got to hear him regularly. He announced he will be leaving the NY Phil in 2023 and it was also announced Muti will be leaving the CSO around the same time. So was Jaap’s guest conductorship of the CSO this weekend a job interview? Hmmm. I would not be surprised!)
So what did I hear that I liked? To be honest, its easier to start with what I didn’t like. I thought virtually all of the big systems were mostly unimpressive. The Lampizator Horizon was frankly a disappointment because it was in a room with speakers (Acora Acoustics) that didn’t do the system justice. The new Ultra 7 in the Von Schwiekert room was sad to say, plagued by poorly defined and bloated bass. However the humble E3s really rocked. They won my "Underachiever" award of the show. The large Steinheim speakers in the VTL room didn’t do it for me and frankly, I thought the Wadax rig was part of the reason why. Nor was their analog rig particularly well tweaked. All these are examples of gear that suffered from set-up or other issues and which are considered fine performers under more ideal circumstances. This just highlights what we already know- it's a bitch to get gear to sound great at shows.
Overall, there was an endless parade of systems that screamed at me, or wanted to launch me out of the room with repetitive massive hiphop bass attacks. Not enjoyable.
The worst sound I heard was the humongous Avantgarde horn system which was poorly setup because it put the listener about 7-8 feet from the drivers. Totally ridiculous. What the hell was the manufacturer thinking by displaying them in such an inhospitable environment? For goodness sake, it would have been far more impressive to do a dry display than actually allow these things to sound so poorly.
The individual drivers are so far apart from each other than no reasonable integration could possibly occur unless the listener is sitting much further way from the speakers- 10 ft is probably a minimum distance. A football field might be even better. Just ridiculous. You didn’t hear a coherent system under any circumstance with any material that was played. You heard 6 separate drivers that were so sonically disparate that it was tragic. Sort of like a haunted house where sounds would come from almost everywhere. I’m also sure that a small child could get lost in the subwoofers and not be found for a week.
Here were some things I heard that impressed me. The Vivid G1 Spirit loudspeakers driven by JMF electronics were a delight.
This should not be surprising. The room was sponsored by George Kyomi, a Chicago dealer who also happens to be a concert pianist. George knows what good piano music sounds like. From the minute I walked in, a solo piano captivated a modest crowd with the musical pleasure one expects from this level of gear. The real surprise for me was the JMF electronics. This French concern is highly regarded in the EU but virtually unknown here. I’m told they demo with their own speakers in Munich which limits their exposure and recognition for their fine electronics. I was pleased to talk to the designer briefly. I asked “tube or solid state”? He replied SS so I asked what his design comprised? He gave me a cursory “we do things differently” which thus compelled me to leave since I had the feeling I was about to be audiophiled to death about how he is the only one on earth who knows how to build great amplifiers. In any case, this was very good sound.
Which brings us to AXPONA 2022. Honestly, I’m not sure why my feelings have changed so much this year. Sure, I loved seeing old friends in the hallway as well as dealers and manufacturers. But my sense was that the energy of old was just not there. There was not a lot there that was new, at least for me. Is that because my system has gotten to the point that big jumps have largely been replaced by incremental improvements? Well, perhaps in part. But still, my overall sense was that the “it” factor I loved at many past shows was nowhere to be found. After all, how excited can you get by trying to listen to tiny dots a little bigger than the size of Jujyfruit being placed on the walls or loudspeakers and expecting a sonic hosanna? Nonsense. In fact, although I heard some nice sounds, overall, it was frankly an overall disappointing experience. In fact, I actually chose to leave a day early. Frankly, there just wasn’t enough there to hold my interest for 3 days.
Also, perhaps in part, was the fact that the night before the show began on Friday, I attended the Chicago Symphony Orchestra’s performance in Symphony Hall of Mahler’s 6th conducted by Jaap Van Zweden.
As I often feel after attending a concert at Carnegie, I just want to turn the stereo off for a day or two while the memory of a live performance is fresh in my brain. It’s just not fair to compare live symphonic music to a reproduced facsimile, as good as it may be. Since we had what were arguably the finest seats in the hall (and therefore some would say, the world, as far as concert hall seats!) in the center of the lower Fadim balcony, it was easy to be non-plussed by going from room to room the next two days to listen to mostly mediocre audio systems. So there’s that. (As an aside, Jaap is a damn good Mahlerite. I lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth for 8 years and was a regular at the DSO which he led during that time. A few years after I left DFW for NJ, he became the conductor of the NY Phil so again, I got to hear him regularly. He announced he will be leaving the NY Phil in 2023 and it was also announced Muti will be leaving the CSO around the same time. So was Jaap’s guest conductorship of the CSO this weekend a job interview? Hmmm. I would not be surprised!)
So what did I hear that I liked? To be honest, its easier to start with what I didn’t like. I thought virtually all of the big systems were mostly unimpressive. The Lampizator Horizon was frankly a disappointment because it was in a room with speakers (Acora Acoustics) that didn’t do the system justice. The new Ultra 7 in the Von Schwiekert room was sad to say, plagued by poorly defined and bloated bass. However the humble E3s really rocked. They won my "Underachiever" award of the show. The large Steinheim speakers in the VTL room didn’t do it for me and frankly, I thought the Wadax rig was part of the reason why. Nor was their analog rig particularly well tweaked. All these are examples of gear that suffered from set-up or other issues and which are considered fine performers under more ideal circumstances. This just highlights what we already know- it's a bitch to get gear to sound great at shows.
Overall, there was an endless parade of systems that screamed at me, or wanted to launch me out of the room with repetitive massive hiphop bass attacks. Not enjoyable.
The worst sound I heard was the humongous Avantgarde horn system which was poorly setup because it put the listener about 7-8 feet from the drivers. Totally ridiculous. What the hell was the manufacturer thinking by displaying them in such an inhospitable environment? For goodness sake, it would have been far more impressive to do a dry display than actually allow these things to sound so poorly.
The individual drivers are so far apart from each other than no reasonable integration could possibly occur unless the listener is sitting much further way from the speakers- 10 ft is probably a minimum distance. A football field might be even better. Just ridiculous. You didn’t hear a coherent system under any circumstance with any material that was played. You heard 6 separate drivers that were so sonically disparate that it was tragic. Sort of like a haunted house where sounds would come from almost everywhere. I’m also sure that a small child could get lost in the subwoofers and not be found for a week.
Here were some things I heard that impressed me. The Vivid G1 Spirit loudspeakers driven by JMF electronics were a delight.
This should not be surprising. The room was sponsored by George Kyomi, a Chicago dealer who also happens to be a concert pianist. George knows what good piano music sounds like. From the minute I walked in, a solo piano captivated a modest crowd with the musical pleasure one expects from this level of gear. The real surprise for me was the JMF electronics. This French concern is highly regarded in the EU but virtually unknown here. I’m told they demo with their own speakers in Munich which limits their exposure and recognition for their fine electronics. I was pleased to talk to the designer briefly. I asked “tube or solid state”? He replied SS so I asked what his design comprised? He gave me a cursory “we do things differently” which thus compelled me to leave since I had the feeling I was about to be audiophiled to death about how he is the only one on earth who knows how to build great amplifiers. In any case, this was very good sound.
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Part 2
Elliot Goldman at Bending Wave had excellent sound as well (in a tough room) with the Goebel Divin Marquis loudspeakers, CH Precision pre/power and Wadax DAC. I first heard this system about 3 weeks ago when I stopped by Elliot's place for a long listen when visiting family in Elliot’s neck of the woods in FL. My take on the Wadax is that it is clearly a good unit, but it just isn’t suited for me in my system. I’m of the belief that, as Dave Wilson said, you need a tube in their somewhere. Since I have a SS preamp and amp, I count on a tube Lampi DAC to provide some tube magic. My sense is the Wadax provides a different picture than the Lampi, particulary in the ability of these units to float harmonics and provide a sense of depth in space. This seems to me, to be a classic vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry dilemma with preference determined by who’s eating the ice cream. One might think the Wadax would be a good fit with tube gear but at the VTL display, I was disappointed again. I know the VTL gear well having owned their excellent preamp and amp for several years (before moving to Soulution gear). As soon as I heard a well recorded Beethoven violin concerto I remarked to myself that anyone who thinks that’s the sound of a violin has very different opinion as to what a violin sounds like than I do. The tone was lovely, the distortion was extremely low, but it was flatter than the real thing to a degree that for me, detracted from the life of a real violin playing. Frankly, I prefer the sound of my Lampi GG2 (my version of Haagan Daz vanilla, I guess!).
There was a surprisingly good low priced performer (another newcomer to me) called Alta Audio who makes wonderful 2 and 3 way speakers out of Huntington NY. They were demoing their 2 way with a cool Chinese class A amplifier (50K/pair) playing Ahmad Jamal to a silent and observant room. 17K speakers. Very nice. I also liked the Vimburg room (as I did in 2019). Conspicuous absence- ARC and Wilson. Conspicuous presence- VAC and Aurender.
Question- if Darth Vader were a piece of audio gear, what would he be?
Answer-The new Gryphon Apex amplifier. O my lord, what a beast! 450+ lbs of intimidation that happens to play music!
I spent a long time trying to understand Wally tools. I have new found respect for how nearly impossible it is to set up a cartridge correctly. It’s frankly amazing to me we get sound as good as we do. We are so totally in the dark about issues such as zenith. It’s a more intimidating science than I first gave it credit for so I have some learning to do.
I’ll end my notes the same way I began, with a reminisce. The hands down best room at the show for me (but not for the sound) was the Wilson WAMM system, serially number 001.
Some guy bought this system from a private user and rented a room to display it in all it's working glory using the same gear Dave Wilson used when he displayed it in public in 1986 (now with new D'Ag amps for the subs). Crown crossover, Krell amps, original brochure, original invoices!! It was a rocket ship in time travel back to audio SOA 35 years ago!!
It brought back unbelievable memories. Worthy of tears. Sadly, the sound was not particularly good and in fact it's almost hard to believe this really was the state of the art only 35 years ago.
But wow, whoever put on that display deserves a prize. I don’t see how they made any money from that display so I take my hat off to the sponsor. This was the closest thing I’ve seen to the old days at the SHOW in Vegas when 4 local guys rented a hotel room wherever the SHOW was held, filled the tub with beer and wine, hooked up a Sansui receiver to some KLH speakers and a lava lamp, and partied all night, every night. They basically bought drinks for anyone that stopped by. Thanks to this Wilson demo that spirit was refreshed at AXPONA..
Elliot Goldman at Bending Wave had excellent sound as well (in a tough room) with the Goebel Divin Marquis loudspeakers, CH Precision pre/power and Wadax DAC. I first heard this system about 3 weeks ago when I stopped by Elliot's place for a long listen when visiting family in Elliot’s neck of the woods in FL. My take on the Wadax is that it is clearly a good unit, but it just isn’t suited for me in my system. I’m of the belief that, as Dave Wilson said, you need a tube in their somewhere. Since I have a SS preamp and amp, I count on a tube Lampi DAC to provide some tube magic. My sense is the Wadax provides a different picture than the Lampi, particulary in the ability of these units to float harmonics and provide a sense of depth in space. This seems to me, to be a classic vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry dilemma with preference determined by who’s eating the ice cream. One might think the Wadax would be a good fit with tube gear but at the VTL display, I was disappointed again. I know the VTL gear well having owned their excellent preamp and amp for several years (before moving to Soulution gear). As soon as I heard a well recorded Beethoven violin concerto I remarked to myself that anyone who thinks that’s the sound of a violin has very different opinion as to what a violin sounds like than I do. The tone was lovely, the distortion was extremely low, but it was flatter than the real thing to a degree that for me, detracted from the life of a real violin playing. Frankly, I prefer the sound of my Lampi GG2 (my version of Haagan Daz vanilla, I guess!).
There was a surprisingly good low priced performer (another newcomer to me) called Alta Audio who makes wonderful 2 and 3 way speakers out of Huntington NY. They were demoing their 2 way with a cool Chinese class A amplifier (50K/pair) playing Ahmad Jamal to a silent and observant room. 17K speakers. Very nice. I also liked the Vimburg room (as I did in 2019). Conspicuous absence- ARC and Wilson. Conspicuous presence- VAC and Aurender.
Question- if Darth Vader were a piece of audio gear, what would he be?
Answer-The new Gryphon Apex amplifier. O my lord, what a beast! 450+ lbs of intimidation that happens to play music!
I spent a long time trying to understand Wally tools. I have new found respect for how nearly impossible it is to set up a cartridge correctly. It’s frankly amazing to me we get sound as good as we do. We are so totally in the dark about issues such as zenith. It’s a more intimidating science than I first gave it credit for so I have some learning to do.
I’ll end my notes the same way I began, with a reminisce. The hands down best room at the show for me (but not for the sound) was the Wilson WAMM system, serially number 001.
Some guy bought this system from a private user and rented a room to display it in all it's working glory using the same gear Dave Wilson used when he displayed it in public in 1986 (now with new D'Ag amps for the subs). Crown crossover, Krell amps, original brochure, original invoices!! It was a rocket ship in time travel back to audio SOA 35 years ago!!
It brought back unbelievable memories. Worthy of tears. Sadly, the sound was not particularly good and in fact it's almost hard to believe this really was the state of the art only 35 years ago.
But wow, whoever put on that display deserves a prize. I don’t see how they made any money from that display so I take my hat off to the sponsor. This was the closest thing I’ve seen to the old days at the SHOW in Vegas when 4 local guys rented a hotel room wherever the SHOW was held, filled the tub with beer and wine, hooked up a Sansui receiver to some KLH speakers and a lava lamp, and partied all night, every night. They basically bought drinks for anyone that stopped by. Thanks to this Wilson demo that spirit was refreshed at AXPONA..
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So Marty, what's the point of all this bad sound? Surely if you have the means and you're in this hobby, you'll be aware of the Wadax Ref. So there's absolutely no need to hear it this poorly. You're either going to buy it or you're not. However if you're an aspiring tech entrepreneur (or West Coast Honda chief lol), you'd be aiming for the Wadax. Isn't this demo now going to lose potential sales?
Put it another way, would you buy a Ferrari if you're first experience was a shit drive on the pockmarked streets around Axpona?
Put it another way, would you buy a Ferrari if you're first experience was a shit drive on the pockmarked streets around Axpona?
That's how most shows are but many goods sell despite the bad sound. I don't know about Axpona but Munich is also a large trade show. So depending on looks, sound, price, margin, etc etc if you are a dealer/distributor and think it's a good idea to represent that product in your territory, you will place the order. And then you will take the responsibility to sell it to your customers.
I know Ked. Ralph of Cessaro sells a fair number of his upper tier horns at Munich while the rest of us are figuring how the sound needs to improve Lol.
Hi Mike.
Thank you for your interesting report.
I am very intrigued about the sound of Cessaro Opus.
Can they really fill the room?
Do they sound as full range speaker?
Regards !!!
two things.
the room is a relatively small hotel room, 14' x 20' x 9'.....with 10 human bodies in it.
and the music is small scale single guitar mono; so not demanding of scale or separation. the music fits the room and system perfectly.
my comment was on the feeling of the musical moment, part of it is the vibe of Jeff's room, the positive attitudes of the listeners, and his aura of set-up and execution. change one thing and the result falls short. and maybe i was in the mood to need that particular thing too. connection requires a willing receiver. i was a believer in that moment.
we don't need mega gear or rooms to find the magic.
Agree with your answer…
There are emotional connection times which are above the system….
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I am not sure what people expect from these shows. There are so many limitations to achieve “great” sound including the room, the time vendors have to set things up, the constant shuffling of people in and out of the room, etc etc. To me, shows are for adding things to lists, not removing them from lists. If something doesn’t sound really good at a show it doesn’t mean it may not sound great in a proper setup.
Having said all that, I thought there were a good number of very good sounding rooms that I saw over the 2 days I was there. The Nick Doshi / Jeff Joseph room sounded great. Elliot’s room, despite the challenges also sounded really good. The Zesto room with all of their new gear was also a top 5 for me. The Lampitzator / VAC / United Home room performed well despite the huge space.
I did notice that the number of turntables decreased from 2019 by a good amount. Rooms are much more dependent on digital streaming than ever before.
Having said all that, I thought there were a good number of very good sounding rooms that I saw over the 2 days I was there. The Nick Doshi / Jeff Joseph room sounded great. Elliot’s room, despite the challenges also sounded really good. The Zesto room with all of their new gear was also a top 5 for me. The Lampitzator / VAC / United Home room performed well despite the huge space.
I did notice that the number of turntables decreased from 2019 by a good amount. Rooms are much more dependent on digital streaming than ever before.
It would have been cool to read about the new Kronos statement table, and the new Nagra and SME tables. They may not need to demo these at shows though to sell their target numbers. There definitely seems to be more buzz for new and expensive DACs and servers than there is for new and expensive turntables and tonearms.
I did return to the Acora/VAC/Horizon room multiple times yesterday and am there now.
other times when they were playing the Horizon it was always loud vocals. I tried sitting in the front but could not. Today I’m sitting back.
other times when they were playing the Horizon it was always loud vocals. I tried sitting in the front but could not. Today I’m sitting back.
One person says the Avantgarde was the best and couldn’t get enough and one says the worst of the show. I find that interesting.
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