Azimuth adjustment on Ikeda 407

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#21
A Dr Feickert analogue protractor
Not sure if their curves match the Japanese geometry and the vdH isn't the easiest cartridge to align visually this way, good luck!
david
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#22
I'm glad you said it...that makes me feel a little better.
Can you recommend a more suitable protractor?
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#23
I'm glad you said it...that makes me feel a little better.
Can you recommend a more suitable protractor?
I don't know enough about the Ikeda to know which curve to use also in one of his posts Shakti mentioned that Ikeda's geometry has changed since the early models that I owned. I can suggest something if you figure that out or if you have a protractor that came with the tonearm then I can have it plotted on an easier to use protractor.

david
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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#24

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#25

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
677
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135
Cologne, Germany
#26
This is just the mounting template what we need is the recommended null points for this arm.

david
If you do 12mm overhang, the 0 points are just a function of the overhang.

should be like 66mm and 121mm
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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#27
If you do 12mm overhang, the 0 points are just a function of the overhang.

should be like 66mm and 121mm
I'll try it and see.
David
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#28
Feickert definitiv does not! work.
please adjust it with the overhang, according to the manual.

http://www.aaudioimports.com/UploadImages/Ikeda IT-407 Mounting Template-English-2012_1.pdf

Overhang is 12mm .
Eureka!

I'm three sheets to the wind, so wouldn't dream of touching it now.
But I 'll go to bed with a big smile of my face, a chronic conundrum finally answered.
Why were BOTH vdh cartridges doing the same thing?
Finally, we have an answer: the doughnut setting them up was using the wrong protracter
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#29
Likes: PeterA
Jul 2, 2015
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#30
Likes: ddk
Jul 2, 2015
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#31
After a long wait for delivery, the Ikeda - specific alignment protractor arrived last week.
I needed to make a tiny adjustment to get the offset angle correct, but for the life of me, i can't get the stylus to centre on both null points. I feel I'm being really dense.

If the stylus sits perfectly on the inner null point, then i move the arm so the stylus is over the outer null point, now the stylus is slightly too far back in the headshell. So i move the cartridge forward in the headshell so that the stylus is perfectly on the outer null, then track to the inner null and the stylus is now too far forwards.
Basically the arc the stylus describes doesn't align with the arc on the protractor. It is close, but impossible to set perfectly. The requirements are contradictory. To get one null point aligned means unaligning the other

I'm really scratching my head. I've removed and reset the armboard, no change, on my AF 301 there is only one place it will go. I've loosened and retightened the two screws at the arm base that permit vta adjustment in order to get the arm stem sitting perpendicular to the armboard, no improvement . I've removed and reset the headshell, no change.
Listening i can clearly hear distortion, vocalists are lisping still.

Any suggestions?
I'm properly flummoxed
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,591
1,248
415
Utah
#32
After a long wait for delivery, the Ikeda - specific alignment protractor arrived last week.
I needed to make a tiny adjustment to get the offset angle correct, but for the life of me, i can't get the stylus to centre on both null points. I feel I'm being really dense.

If the stylus sits perfectly on the inner null point, then i move the arm so the stylus is over the outer null point, now the stylus is slightly too far back in the headshell. So i move the cartridge forward in the headshell so that the stylus is perfectly on the outer null, then track to the inner null and the stylus is now too far forwards.
Basically the arc the stylus describes doesn't align with the arc on the protractor. It is close, but impossible to set perfectly. The requirements are contradictory. To get one null point aligned means unaligning the other

I'm really scratching my head. I've removed and reset the armboard, no change, on my AF 301 there is only one place it will go. I've loosened and retightened the two screws at the arm base that permit vta adjustment in order to get the arm stem sitting perpendicular to the armboard, no improvement . I've removed and reset the headshell, no change.
Listening i can clearly hear distortion, vocalists are lisping still.

Any suggestions?
I'm properly flummoxed
Let me remind you of my first post in this thread where I mentioned my experience with this arm's geometry, I don't know what it is that you bought but you're finding out what I said first hand. Best you can do is come up with a compromise alignment if you insist on staying with this tonearm.

... My own previous experience with alignment of Ikeda tonearms was negative, I couldn't get perfect alignment across the record and had to setup for least compromise at either end but not perfect.
david
 
Last edited:
Jul 2, 2015
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#33
Ok might have had a eureka moment. Just eating a late supper, will report back soon when i can confirm
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
6,544
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North Shore of Boston
#34
If the stylus sits perfectly on the inner null point, then i move the arm so the stylus is over the outer null point, now the stylus is slightly too far back in the headshell. So i move the cartridge forward in the headshell so that the stylus is perfectly on the outer null, then track to the inner null and the stylus is now too far forwards.
Basically the arc the stylus describes doesn't align with the arc on the protractor. It is close, but impossible to set perfectly. The requirements are contradictory. To get one null point aligned means unaligning the other



Any suggestions?
I'm properly flummoxed
Baffled, this sounds like what I experienced using the MINT LP protractor. Instead of moving the cartridge forward, you should move it backwards slightly. The protractor rotates on the spindle. If you move the cartridge back, then move the protractor in the same direction following the cartridge, the inner null point will move back a little and the outer null point will move back more because of the overhang. Eventually, the stylus will hit both. Keep trying until you get it.

I did the same, only with the SME arm base sliding forward or backward. This should do the trick. Good luck. You need patience. And it is counterintuitive.
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#35
By jove i think I've cracked it
Reassured by David's echoing of my experience, tinged with a serving of 'well it must bloody work better than this, I continued fiddling and measuring, eventually deciding i had the cartridge aligned as close as possible.
Then since i had changed azimuth and alignment, i revisited tracking weight, and changed the dynamic balance of the arm by increasing the tracking weight using the rotary selector by one click, and then compensating by moving the arm's counterweight further from the pivot to balance. Since correcting azimuth i felt i had lost dynamics, so this was with that in mind.

And immediately my mids and highs, before distorted and smeared, are now clean, liquid and clearly separated. Moreover I've significantly less surface noise, the bass has made a big improvement, there's more cohesion to the overall sound because timing, snap and slam, aka PRaT, all are transformed

It feels a bit previous to declare victory given previous false dawns, but i have just played When it Falls by Zero7, full of electric piano that was previously being butchered and i have just heard it properly for the first time. Sublime
 
Likes: CKKeung
Jul 2, 2015
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#36
Baffled, this sounds like what I experienced using the MINT LP protractor. Instead of moving the cartridge forward, you should move it backwards slightly. The protractor rotates on the spindle. If you move the cartridge back, then move the protractor in the same direction following the cartridge, the inner null point will move back a little and the outer null point will move back more because of the overhang. Eventually, the stylus will hit both. Keep trying until you get it.

I did the same, only with the SME arm base sliding forward or backward. This should do the trick. Good luck. You need patience. And it is counterintuitive.
That would explain it Peter. I definitely moved the cartridge back last fiddle.
In that case, i will revisit tomorrow, and perfect it
Thank you very much
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
6,544
1,585
340
North Shore of Boston
#37
That would explain it Peter. I definitely moved the cartridge back last fiddle.
In that case, i will revisit tomorrow, and perfect it
Thank you very much
Remember, this works in reverse too, and you may have to go back and forth a bit. If you are on the inner null point, but ahead of the outer one, move the cartridge/arm forward a small amount, rotate the protractor forward (clockwise as viewed from above) and check again. The inner null moves forward a small amount to meet the cartridge which was moved forward a small amount, but the outer null moves more forward to meet the stylus. This will take some patience. Good luck and let us know if that works.
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#38
Remember, this works in reverse too, and you may have to go back and forth a bit. If you are on the inner null point, but ahead of the outer one, move the cartridge/arm forward a small amount, rotate the protractor forward (clockwise as viewed from above) and check again. The inner null moves forward a small amount to meet the cartridge which was moved forward a small amount, but the outer null moves more forward to meet the stylus. This will take some patience. Good luck and let us know if that works.
Thanks to your advice i managed to get it dialled in perfectly some time around 4 this morning...I'll check it again in a minute since at that time of day my eyes were starting to go:)
My gratitude is profound!
 
Likes: PeterA

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
6,544
1,585
340
North Shore of Boston
#39
Thanks to your advice i managed to get it dialled in perfectly some time around 4 this morning...I'll check it again in a minute since at that time of day my eyes were starting to go:)
My gratitude is profound!
You are most welcome. The advice I paraphrased is in the extremely well written pamphlet that comes with the MINT LP Protractor. The photos and diagrams are superb. I'm glad that this worked for you. The next, and more important thing, of course, is whether or not your sound improves. For now, you seem a bit less baffled and certainly less flummoxed.
 
Jul 2, 2015
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#40
And yet, regrettably still ever so slightly befuddled :)
Everything now measures perfectly and overall sound is greatly improved.
However, i still can't solve a slight sibilance that gives my vocalists a lisp, and makes cymbals splashy.
Any further suggestions will be gratefully received!
 

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