BACCH-SP: The future of high-end audio? Yes.

A little bit of an update for those who may be interested. I'm running BACCH4Mac intro on a M4 Mac mini, feeding out on a Sablon Evo USB cable into my Lampizator Atlantic 3 DAC.

I wanted to experiment a bit. The BACCH output from the mini sounded surprisingly close to my Grimm MU1 -> Lampizator via Shunyata AES/EBU cable (I believe it's a Sigma, though it could be Omega.)

I ended up ordering a JCAT XE USB Evo card from Kitsunehifi.com that I installed in a Sonnet SE1 thunderbolt expansion case, and plugged that into the Mac. I also ordered a couple Plixir power supplies, but they haven't arrived yet. The JCAT is streaming and burning in. It fundamentally works.

I haven't listened carefully, but very casual listening this morning while I was getting ready was more than a bit encouraging. The system sounded both smooth and detailed. The word in my mind was "fluid," despite running off cheap switching power supplies. (I wouldn't have described it as "fluid" before this change.)

So for anyone curious: yes, you can set up a Mac to use an audio-oriented external USB card. Whether or not the results are fantastic / okay / pathetic is still up in the air, though "pathetic" seems unlikely.
I have it on good authority that a MUON Pro, when added to the Bacch4Mac Mini, makes a huge sonic improvement. I borrowed my Bacch4Mac setup to a friend. He discovered this. I have a MUON Pro on my BACCH-SP adio and my Grimm MU2. I was impressed after adding one to each. Just sayin....

Also, consider a Stealth USB-T Select V3 or USB Double Tune USB cable. Shunyata is no slouch, but Stealth is better to my ears. Enjoy!
 
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Assuming the Bacch is a USB music signal from a box, we can apply all the usual audiophile enhancements to the box.

Good power, good input and output hygiene (LAN, USB).

There is also one trick to check what we can achieve outside the Mac. Bacch software allows one to save the output file during playback after the Bacch filters are added. We can then play this file back through our main audiophile stereo system (outside the Mac) and achieve the full Bacch sound.
 
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Assuming the Bacch is a USB music signal from a box, we can apply all the usual audiophile enhancements to the box.

Good power, good input and output hygiene (LAN, USB).

There is also one trick to check what we can achieve outside the Mac. Bacch software allows one to save the output file during playback after the Bacch filters are added. We can then play this file back through our main audiophile stereo system (outside the Mac) and achieve the full Bacch sound.
So you can generate a file (wav? flac? which formats?) that you can transfer and play in a system without the Bacch?

You could leave your system playing with Mac.Baach and generate a bacch processed version of your preferred albums, to play in a system without the Bacch?
 
So you can generate a file (wav? flac? which formats?) that you can transfer and play in a system without the Bacch?

You could leave your system playing with Mac.Baach and generate a bacch processed version of your preferred albums, to play in a system without the Bacch?

Essentially yes. The software allows you to record the digital output while it is playing. I think it is WAV? So it can’t quickly rip an album but it takes the same time as playing the album to make the digital file. And the output is a single file. So you have to cut it into tracks.

But once you do that and have the tracks, you can play it from any non-Bacch streamer into the same hifi set (same amps and same speakers) and get the full Bacch sound.

Since it’s tuned for your ears/ speaker position / room, it only works if the playback is for the same.

Because of this tight requirements for the file to work, you can’t share the recording with a friend say, whose system is different or anyone who’s ears aren’t similar shaped to your own. The 3D image probably won’t work.

But you can use this method to compare what your Mac sounds like compared to your favorite streamer when outputting Bacch files. This assumes the Mac doesn’t permanently add its own flavor into the digital files during the recording process. Personally I don’t think so but some audiophiles believe it does.
 
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Essentially yes. The software allows you to record the digital output while it is playing. I think it is WAV? So it can’t quickly rip an album but it takes the same time as playing the album to make the digital file. And the output is a single file. So you have to cut it into tracks.

But once you do that and have the tracks, you can play it from any non-Bacch streamer into the same hifi set (same amps and same speakers) and get the full Bacch sound.

Since it’s tuned for your ears/ speaker position / room, it only works if the playback is for the same.

Because of this tight requirements for the file to work, you can’t share the recording with a friend say, whose system is different or anyone who’s ears aren’t similar shaped to your own. The 3D image probably won’t work.

But you can use this method to compare what your Mac sounds like compared to your favorite streamer when outputting Bacch files. This assumes the Mac doesn’t permanently add its own flavor into the digital files during the recording process. Personally I don’t think so but some audiophiles believe it does.
Thank you. Having to cut the tracks makes it a no go for me, too much work. Maybe a later version of the software will make it more user friendly to perform this pre-processing of tracks with Bacch.
 
What is the reason this person can't use the signal out of the BACCH? If it is a USB issue there are many converters available that do an excellent job converting USB to whatever output you would like. If it is just a simple issue of not believing anything good can come out of a Mac Mini, that is more of as personal problem again. Easily overcome by just listening to one. Oh, you did and you didn't like what you heard. Back to a personal problem, I happily don't share.
 
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What is the reason this person can't use the signal out of the BACCH? If it is a USB issue there are many converters available that do an excellent job converting USB to whatever output you would like. If it is just a simple issue of not believing anything good can come out of a Mac Mini, that is more of as personal problem again. Easily overcome by just listening to one. Oh, you did and you didn't like what you heard. Back to a personal problem, I happily don't share.
I had a beefed up macmini many years ago. Now I use a Taiko Olympus XDMI, which, at least for me, is quite superior to a macmini. I also heard the bacch dio and see merit in it. So I would like to do the Bacch processing offline, put the tracks/albums in a NAS and use the Taiko Olympus. However, having to cut the tracks is not an attractive idea to me.
 
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I’m (and others actually) are in the middle of an interesting experiment with the Bacch output from a Mac.

My MacBook does not output a high end audiophile music signal. I know this for sure now. It allows the Bacch sound to be tasted - but it’s not a gourmet taste. The Mac output bit perfect for sure but for all known and unknown reasons, it’s not audiophile sounding.

So some months ago I started on the belief that I can improve the sound from the Mac by applying the usual audiophile techniques I’ve pickup over the years. And it’s working. I’ve reached a level that is close to the sound of my optimized reference stereo Pink Faun 2.16x streamer but with the Bacch sound field.

I’m waiting for the final parts to arrive for the third iteration of my solution. Once that is completed and evaluated I will write this entire experience up.

Audiophile Bacch sound through a Mac is possible.
 
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Besides me, I know other Taiko owners who do not want to insert another device in the audio chain. If Bacch changed the mac version of bacch to easily generate bacch processed tracks, I would certainly purchase it, and probably many other would too. I suppose this added feature should not be too difficult to create.
 
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Besides me, I know other Taiko owners who do not want to insert another device in the audio chain. If Bacch changed the mac version of bacch to easily generate bacch processed tracks, I would certainly purchase it, and probably many other would too. I suppose this added feature should not be too difficult to create.
Edgar doesn't believe your Taiko gear is a worthwhile expense. Don't hope for much.
I think your Taiko gear is tip top. But with my BACCH-SP adio I will soldier on without knowing how good it is.
 
Pretty certain all the Bacch-SP models is a step up from the standard Mac version. After all the hardware is dedicated and matched for the purpose and the package is quite a bit more expensive than the Mac version. Al, I recall you mentioning that your Bacch SP ADIO compares well with your Grimm MU1? Whatever, the Bacch soundstage is so next level that climbing this mountain is worth it no matter the hardware and currently the best available is the SP. And hopefully soon also the Mac with an external PCIe enclosure.

The one advantage I see with the Mac version is that it is flexible for tweaking which is what I am doing now.
 
Edgar doesn't believe your Taiko gear is a worthwhile expense. Don't hope for much.
I think your Taiko gear is tip top. But with my BACCH-SP adio I will soldier on without knowing how good it is.
I am quite sure he doesn't have a Taiko Olympus, and neither has heard it in his system. So probably an oppinion that is not based on direct experience.
 
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I have it on good authority that a MUON Pro, when added to the Bacch4Mac Mini, makes a huge sonic improvement. I borrowed my Bacch4Mac setup to a friend. He discovered this. I have a MUON Pro on my BACCH-SP adio and my Grimm MU2. I was impressed after adding one to each. Just sayin....

Also, consider a Stealth USB-T Select V3 or USB Double Tune USB cable. Shunyata is no slouch, but Stealth is better to my ears. Enjoy!
So the Plixir power supplies arrived and I'm working on rearranging the electronics to make everything fit. I see this box sitting on the top shelf, disconnected, and think "What's that?" Pull it out and... it's a Muon Pro. Think I'll put THAT in line before the Mini while I'm at it.

It's beginning to feel a lot like Christmas around here!
 
Heard the Carver in the early 80's and bought the pre amp. Dealer had a perfect set up. Not expensive but DCM Time Windows, which I read years ago Carver used in developing the holography circuit. Karla Bonoff. Dealer switched in the circuitry and I'd swear there was someone playing a piano 10 feet in front of me and a few feet to the left. Unfortunately the circuitry changed tonality a bit much. But what a wonderful toy. I always wondered why someone didn't make a high end version of it. I do remember Carver saying you needed time aligned speakers and a "dead" acoustic space on the wall behind the speakers. Once I get my acoustics and system dialed in this summer I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one of these and see how it does.
 
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Bacch4Mac played through audiophile sound card/bridges is possible!

It’s been a week since I got my parts to adapt my Pink Faun Ultra USB card/bridge into the Sonnet Echo Express SE1 Thunderbolt3 Expansion Chassis (Echo-EXP-SE!-T3) - phew, what a long name! :rolleyes:

Sonnet SE1.jpg1 (67).jpeg

Glad to report it fits and works as expected. This Sonnet box accepts a USB C Thunderbolt connection from my Macbook and offers a PCIe extension slot. With a short extension cable and some supports, I managed to just fit the Ultra bridge inside in a sturdy way with very little space to spare.

1 (68).jpeg1 (69).jpeg1 (70).jpeg

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The Ultra bridge is externally powered as is the Sonnet box. Both from my Paul Hynes DR7t+ supply at 5v and 12v respectively. But a bit of history before I get to the sound. The exploratory path I took to get here. I am repeating some of the info I posted earlier but it's mainly for my own reference and makes it easier to read.

Until recently, I was playing the Bacch output directly from my Macbook into the DAC using a Roon core in the Mac. This method allows one to hear the effect of the Bacch filters but it is as low end as it gets as far as hardware is concerned and this is reflected in the sound quality - an average sound with a lack of dynamics and blur focusing. Pretty acceptable, given the startlingly wide Bacch soundstage, for many new Bacch users on trial to see what all the Bacch hubbub was all about. But I wanted to see if the quality of the sound could be improved while keeping the enormous Bacch soundstage.

First I tried putting the USB output of the Mac through a series of USB signal cleaning filters that I have good experience with many years ago when I first experimented with digital cleaning. The Uptone IsoRegen followed by the SOtM tx-USBUltra. Both do a good job of cleaning the USB signal a touch but the tx-USBUltra has the added advantage of adding an external Reference Clock which I added my unused Cybershaft OP-14 so I used this as the end point before the DAC and wrote about it earlier here and here. Both devices powered at 9V by the PH DR7t+.

Immediately the effect was a better sound, the image tightened up considerably and there was a wider difference between the quiet passages and the loud ones. This proved to me that the Bacch filtered USB signal from the Mac could be improved and it was worth perusing towards my ultimate goal - passing the signal into an audiophile sound bridge and using that as the last signal generation before the DAC. Especially so if this bridge had a good clock.

So next was to try the PCIe extension box mentioned above. I have a few USB sound cards on hand and I initially started with the Pink Faun USB v2. An unusual card with a clocking frequency at 40MHz instead of the standard 20MHz. The card work almost immediately and it sounded good but not at the level I had expected it to. Perhaps the Sonnet box and cabling was still breaking in? Or perhaps the v2 card had been resting for over a year? I tried passing the output USB signal into my USB cleaning setup and then the sound settled nicely. A good step up, more clarity, better soundstage placement than just the cleaning setup. Bacch soundstage is already second to none but with that additional clarity and solid image placements, it’s something to behold. Very nice.

Why not go straightaway into the Ultra card/bridge? Because it didn’t fit. This bridge is designed specifically for the Pink Faun’s Ultra streamer and only this streamer. The shape doesn’t allow it to be adjusted to fit other streamer/computer slots. So I used a 5cm ADT Link PCle riser extension cable R11SF and some supports to make it work. The Sonnet has an in built fan which I felt was unnecessary so I disconnected it to reduce electrical disturbance but left the LED light on.

The final physical setup was done but the device wasn’t recognised by the Mac. After some trial and error tests I found that the Macbook had to be disconnected from the Sonnet box for a few hours and then reconnected for it to be recognised for the first time. Thereafter it's fine. An unusual requirement, different from the v2 card which connected without issues.

And the sound..

The Ultra bridge hadn’t been in use for many months, it was disconnected from power and the Ultra OCXO clock inside was cold. I knew this and that it would take a few weeks for the sound to return to what the Ultra was capable of but right off, the sound of Bacch through the Ultra bridge was already astonishing. As wide as the Bacch soundfield is, the Ultra was making it even wider while maintaining resolution at the extreme width. The images I heard at the peripheral soundfield were clear and full ranged. Looked like the bridge's UltraCap power inside and their signal isolation tech was working well.

Would it be further improved through the USB cleaning filters? Nope, a clear step down doing so. A direct connection from sound card/bridge to DAC sounds the best. How does it compare with the sound of the Ultra bridge in my PF streamer in conventional stereo? Initially, not quite the same level of details and emotional impact yet but far better in soundstage and accuracy of sound, the latter probably due to the Bacch filters being room and system corrected. Very few, if any, albums sound wrong, pretty much all tracks sounds audiophile and closer to the truth. Booting the Macbook in 'Safe Mode' also made a clear improvement to the sound.

I feel there is still some optimisation work to do on the presentation of details but after only a week of warming the clock in the bridge (current time now), and replacing the Roon core with a Roon bridge in the Macbook and moving the core to an simple external player, there is a clear improvement with the emotional connection now being closer to the Ultra bridge under stereo conditions.

With my experience today of the Bacch sound through my Ultra USB bridge, I will not be returning to stereo anytime soon. No matter what highest end equipment is being used for playback, and I’ve heard quite a number of them in my own system and in other systems, the distortion of crosstalk isn’t being addressed and so soundstage images can only be guessed at by the brain. Despite a non-audiophile Macbook is being used to calculate the realtime Bacch filters, having a high end sound card attached seems to have significantly improved the sound quality - to an audiophile level. Similar to the Bacch-SP dedicated players? Or perhaps even beyond them? ;)

What’s next? For hardware, until some manufacturer finds a way to incorporate the Bacch crosstalk removal filters in their streamers, there isn’t much else to improve on. Perhaps testing different USB thunderbolt cables? Or trying a Mac Mini or Mac Studio rather than a Macbook? But I would loose the ability to transport the Bacch to my other music systems and I would be using a switching supply instead of the Macbook battery. I can work further on the Roon core hardware as I am using a simple SonicTransporter for that currently. For software, it might be good to explore software outside Roon which I have not used in years for audiophile listening - it being nearly the worst sounding software in my experience to date. If I can get Euphony to play into Bacch it would be exciting. Right now, Bacch doesn’t accept UPnP connections so there is no straightforward way to do this. Using the Mac as a Roon endpoint is currently the easiest way presently and seems to sound good enough for now.

So in summary, my playback system today:

Macbook M2, running Bacch4Mac (connected to RME Babyface Pro and head tracking video camera) and Roon endpoint. USB Thunderbolt 3 connected to ->

Sonnet Echo Express SE1 with Pink Faun Ultra card/bridge installed. 12v power by Paul Hynes DR7t+. QSA Landri USB cable output to ->

Vinnie Rossi L2i-SE DAC2


I hope this experience writeup benefits others using the Bacch4Mac software. There are ways to push the sound quality up substantially without high costs.
 
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And the BACCH-SP adio is a nice improvement over the B4M. With the B4M you think "how could this get any better?". The adio has a compelling answer.
 
Yes I’m sure the Bacch SP dedicated players are a step up from the standard Bacch4Mac since they are built for the purpose.

It’s a pity I don’t have any way to listen to the Bacch SP ADIO where I am so I won’t know how it compares against playing through this external audio card method. Edgar told me I’m the only one in Thailand using his Bacch system, so no community to build on presently.
 
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Bacch is achieving this with just 2 speakers. And perhaps with even better vocal localisation too.

" The study highlights one weakness in ambisonic panning, however. For sounds with energy frequencies above 4
Hz, such as the human vocal range, the localization cues became distorted — meaning the information that helps
the brain determine the location sound is coming from seemed incorrect to listeners.

The result was that speech, although reproduced "accurately," was somewhat degraded and instead sounded as if it was being heard over a phone line. "
 
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