best cost no object, cables

Lagonda

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IMHO there is no best cable - cables are very system dependent and user preferences also differ significantly.

Considering the second question we have to try. There are many ways of building a system, I personally have not found a way of making any Belden or Mogami sound like Nordost Odin II ... :)
Thank god !;)
 
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Elliot G.

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I had MIT MAX REV2,listen in
My system also CH Silver,Khama Ref,Stealth Indra V12,Acrolink Mexcel 6300,Kimber top,Valhalla 1 bit absolute the best in my system was Gobel Lacord Statement
Thanks G! I agree with you. The Lacorde cables are truly excellent. I don't like the word best since it really doesn't mean anything its just hype speak.
I have tried with the CH and my speakers MIT, Transparent, AQ, and Nordost V2 and Odin2. All of these are good companies and make quality products.
I have taken lots of these items in trade and in fact just had a pair of Odin 2 speaker cable sin the classifieds that my clients have tried and found the Lacorde cables "better" or more to their liking in their systems.
The Lacorde speaker cable is less than half the price of the Odin 2 I took back from him and he kept the Larcorde :)
 
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Folsom

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what part , the 175 hour break-in ?

Burn in is real. It’s only a week of time.

However where it gets absolutely absurd is claiming there is a “danger” to any of it. I am not sure if there is a more repugnant argument made about stereo equipment. It takes an ill brain to think people must be “saved” from buying luxury items - as if they’re a victim of buying what they want.

Also directional cables are a normal thing in any electronic field when a shield is only terminated at one end, but you’d have to have some education to know that... maybe the type you’d want if you’re going to scrutinize stuff on [inaccurate] objective points.
 

BlueFox

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For me, it is impossible to try all cables. What I wonder is just how much improvement in sound the upper priced cables provide.
 

highstream

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Burn in is real. It’s only a week of time..

Of dozens of burn ins I can’t remember anything new that took only a week, although I read that Shunyata power cords (and others?) now come mostly ready and some claim that new production Chinese tubes don’t take very long, though that’s not my experience. Developers almost invariably grossly understate the time needed, although Morrow Audio offers a guide to what one will hear at different hour points up to about 400 hours with their cables, and they recommend 5 hours on, 5 off. Saves premature complaints and returns.

Typically, tubes = 250-300 hours minimum and most everything else 325-400 on up including some rest (settling) time. Of course, with power cords and fuses it’s continuous, assuming a live circuit, which makes for about two weeks or a little more. Some companies or developers will do some of it for the buyer on a cooker, but usually there’s an extra charge. With tubes, I’ve belatedly learned about SS rectifiers, which help facilitate the process while preserving recti tubes.
 
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musicfirst1

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twitch

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Also directional cables are a normal thing in any electronic field when a shield is only terminated at one end, but you’d have to have some education to know that... maybe the type you’d want if you’re going to scrutinize stuff on [inaccurate] objective points.

yes, agreed , apparently you did not read the the Op's (Amir) opening post, he clearly states as such .
 

knghifi

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Enklein "David" cables. Using full loom of PC, IC and SC. Completely changed my perspective and priority on cables.
 

DaveC

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Of dozens of burn ins I can’t remember anything new that took only a week, although I read that Shunyata power cords (and others?) now come mostly ready and some claim that new production Chinese tubes don’t take very long, though that’s not my experience. Developers almost invariably grossly understate the time needed, although Morrow Audio offers a guide to what one will hear at different hour points up to about 400 hours with their cables, and they recommend 5 hours on, 5 off. Saves premature complaints and returns.

Typically, tubes = 250-300 hours minimum and most everything else 325-400 on up including some rest (settling) time. Of course, with power cords and fuses it’s continuous, assuming a live circuit, which makes for about two weeks or a little more. Some companies or developers will do some of it for the buyer on a cooker, but usually there’s an extra charge. With tubes, I’ve belatedly learned about SS rectifiers, which help facilitate the process while preserving recti tubes.


I use an AudioDharma high power cooker on all of my cables, the biggest issue is rough handling during shipping can undo some or even most of the burn-in. Usually it's just some and it settles down quickly but I've had cables, that I assume were handled with "extra care", that are like starting all over again. Different cables handle shipping differently too, my litz wire isn't effected by shipping that much while the ribbon cables have much more of an issue with it. I think it's because the litz wire uses painted-on insulation where the ribbon cable's teflon insulation may shift wrt the conductor metal due to rough handling more.

For me, it is impossible to try all cables. What I wonder is just how much improvement in sound the upper priced cables provide.

It varies, but the issue is cables are a high profit margin item used to pad money made in system sales, and the price of a high end cable sold via a dealer gets out of control due to overhead of the manufacturer in terms of promoting and advertising, packaging, glossy brochures, trade-in policies, etc. then the dealer gets the cable for 25% of retail.

In contrast I pay very little in overhead and sell direct, so my prices are a fraction of the price of a dealer-sale brand. The issue is, and this is true of many types of businesses these days, there is so much choice the customer is overwhelmed. The signal to noise ratio is too much. This is even true of supercars, there are probably a dozen brands of supercars out there you've never heard of unless you're a car nerd. With audio cables there may be a hundred direct-sale brands in the world and many of them have significant flaws, not only in performance, but in design of the product. I've seen cables gushed over here that are a major safety liability, for example power cables that using 12g+ solid-core wire that will certainly crack after relatively few bending cycles. There are other reasons cables can't be bent without failing such as a ribbons placed one-atop the other so when bent they apply massive stress to the connectors and insulation, these will fail quickly. Others will have corrosion issues. So it's kind of a minefield with tons of products out there (not just in cables) that have significant design flaws made by enthusiasts with a lot of passion but poor engineering and manufacturing skills. I've seen tube gear with horrific build quality and many failures, electronics poorly designed and cheaply built, some with significant design flaws that indicate the designer had inadequate knowledge and experience to make a product that's polished enough for sale. OTOH, I've seen dealer-sale "big" brands that offer horrific value for the money for a quasi-luxury experience. Prices high for the sake of being high... and they are also not immune from quality issues.

So like everything, the educated buyer has a big advantage and is likely to get something that fits what they want for a fair price. If you have the means to spent 6-figures in cabling that's what it takes to get top end dealer-sale cables these days, and yes they will probably be very good. However, I and some other brands offer comparable cables for a lot less due to the previously mentioned economic factors. I buy my wire and connectors from the same places many of them do, so by comparable I mean much closer than you might think. But sorting this out, figuring out who offers a true high value in high-end cables is not always easy. I can say all this and I'm only one out of a hundred voices you'll hear, all claiming that for whatever reason they have the best... so there are pros and cons to the modern market! Technology and globalization has made tools that used to be incredibly expensive an afterthought and the internet has made virtual stores more common than brick and mortar, so the proliferation of businesses of all types is just incredible right now.
 

highstream

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The new Fidelium Speaker Cables are revolutionary!
After reading this review I decided to give them a try.
www.thesoundadvocate.com/2020/06/silversmith-audio-fidelium-speaker-cables-first-review/
They are KILLER! An all time best buy.
My own review will appear in a few days.

Other than the length of the review two things caught my attention, neither of which speak directly to the sound quaility of the Silversmith cable (I used a highly rated ribbon speaker cable with Vandersteens back in the 1990’s and in hindsight they were bright, weak on the low end). First, the author downplayed burnin in favor of getting used to the cable’s sound over the course of eight weeks. He seems unaware that this dovetails with the criticism made by naysayers that differences people hear are just a matter of the brain adapting.

The second thing is in his colleague’s follow up review at the bottom, in which he says the following: “Most importantly, they never impose any character of their own, no matter what electronics or loudspeakers that they may be engaged with.” This all-too-common statement from reviewers and users alike, if one stops to think about, makes no sense on the face of it and invariably contradicts everything that’s come before it in the review. If it has no effect, what’s the review about? It not only denies the intentional sonic designs of cable developers, that cables are components too affecting the whole, but also assumes the reviewer knows what the other components or system sounds like without cables. How many of us can claim that feat?
 
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bonzo75

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Sorry - was rushed comment, rather than odd!

I've found Skogrand incredibly transparent (yeh yeh everyone says that about their favourite cables), so when I was running Mayer / Bernings I found the system too forward / bright. With the Audionet that is not the case. My assumption therefore is that other cables were filtering the Mayer / Bernings as it is hard to see how any cable would add this.

If you look back at my comments, I had asked if Mayer was not making Berning seem forward. I did find valve preamps do that, the Berning quadrature apart from its own pre (which has valves) needs something like Soulution (or maybe Dartzeel, CH, SMC which is what the US distro uses)
 
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Testy Troll

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Other than the length of the review two things caught my attention, neither of which speak directly to the sound quaility of the Silversmith cable (I used a highly rated ribbon speaker cable with Vandersteens back in the 1990’s and in hindsight they were bright, weak on the low end). First, the author downplayed burnin in favor of getting used to the cable’s sound over the course of eight weeks. He seems unaware that this dovetails with the criticism made by naysayers that differences people hear are just a matter of the brain adapting.

The second thing is in his colleague’s follow up review at the bottom, in which he says the following: “Most importantly, they never impose any character of their own, no matter what electronics or loudspeakers that they may be engaged with.” This all-too-common statement from reviewers and users alike is, if one stops to think about, absurd on the face of it and invariably contradicts everything that’s come before it in the review. If it has no effect, what’s the review about? It not only denies the intentional sonic designs of cable developers, that cables are components too affecting the whole, but also assumes the reviewer knows what the other components or system sounds like without cables. How many of us can claim that feat?

First of all, I didn't state those things in my review. And mine was after only a few days of listening.
Second, the cables are returnable with a money back guarantee.
Third, I think it's highly likely you WON'T return them....
 

highstream

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First of all, I didn't state those things in my review. And mine was after only a few days of listening.
Second, the cables are returnable with a money back guarantee.
Third, I think it's highly likely you WON'T return them....

I think you misread my post.
 
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DaveC

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Please re-read my post. It clearly refers *only* to some aspects of the review you linked, and not to your appreciation of the cable or to the sound quality of the cable itself as expressed in the review. And you're quite correct I won’t be returning it, because with active speakers I have no reason to audition it.

n/m...
 

musicfirst1

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This is not the case with the Fidelium Cable.
Try, you'll buy....
Testy, can you tell us what other cables you owned of tried before the Fideliums?
 

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