Bob's New Listening Room and System
- Thread starter Bobvin
- Start date
I have decided to go ahead and start a plan for a remodel. After the Wilson fellow did the WASP, the system sounds pretty good, but I know there is a lot of room for improvement. I may get a pair of SMT transparent wings for behind and between the speakers, as I will likely be able to use them in front of the window even after a remodel. Most likely the end result will look a bit more like a home theater than hifi room, only because there is always the chance we'll relocate again. Not to say I won't have it modeled acoustically for two channel, but likely wired for a surround system and projector.
So I am just now beginning to interview acoustical consultants, hopefully by fall I can have a new room! Let the wild rumpus begin!
I know Steve Williams did a spectacular job in his space, and have spoken already with Nyal. If anyone has had great experience with a consultant for their room, I'd be happy to hear your experience and speak with your firm.
So I am just now beginning to interview acoustical consultants, hopefully by fall I can have a new room! Let the wild rumpus begin!
I know Steve Williams did a spectacular job in his space, and have spoken already with Nyal. If anyone has had great experience with a consultant for their room, I'd be happy to hear your experience and speak with your firm.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Congratulations Bob and good luck on the room build out
Nyal is a wonderful acoustician.
Info on the lady I used can be found in my room system blog
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Steve-Williams&p=191656&viewfull=1#post191656
Nyal is a wonderful acoustician.
Info on the lady I used can be found in my room system blog
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Steve-Williams&p=191656&viewfull=1#post191656
In my room there are a pair of doors to the lower deck, one behind each speaker. (Pictures earlier in the thread) With the weather pretty nice last weekend I thought I'd try something new -- opening the doors while playing music. Now with the doors open, and my room open to the house behind the listening position, there shouldn't be much to restrict/reflect low frequencies causing interference. That said, should be impossible to pressurize the room too. Now, my new Shunyata Sigma Alpha feeding the ARC REF75 is probably finally settled in, so there is some contribution there, but oh man were the Alexias singing, and the bass was just f'ing impressive. No loss of dynamics, but the lowest registers tightened up quite audibly.
Perhaps someone like Nyal could comment... I wouldn't expect such an open space to be good for a speaker?
It makes me wonder, will my remodel sound at least this good. ( Good thing I live on 4.5 acres, or the neighbors would get to know my library, if they wanted to or not!)
Perhaps someone like Nyal could comment... I wouldn't expect such an open space to be good for a speaker?
It makes me wonder, will my remodel sound at least this good. ( Good thing I live on 4.5 acres, or the neighbors would get to know my library, if they wanted to or not!)
Yesterday was a big day! I signed a contract for acoustical consulting with the woman Steve used for his amazing room, Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense. It looks like a site visit might be occurring as soon as the 18th of this month. While I'm very excited to finally be on the verge of having a plan, I'm not eager to tear things down and be without music again for a time. But... there's also been something about my system lately that's not been grabbing me, so getting my room dialed in will allow me to remove room interactions from the list of variables and allow me to move along on the journey to building the ultimately satisfying system (does it ever end?)
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Congratulations on that one Bob. Please take photos of the before, during and after as we all would love to follow your journey, What I liked about Bonnie was her program (that she wrote) on mathematical mapping.
Step 1: Select Acoustic Consultant (done!)
Step 2: Select Interior Designer (done!)
Step 3: Site visit from Acoustic Consultant (tomorrow!)
Very much looking forward to meeting Dr. Bonnie and exploring what can be done. If I get close to the results Steve has achieved, I am going to be thrilled.
Steps 4—??? TBD, hopefully before autumn I can be complete.
Here's a couple home theater rooms we like, and while NOT being designed as a private theater, we do like the look of these rooms which would fit into the overall 'modern lodge' theme of our home. One thing I know, when it comes to construction CUSTOM is a four-letter word!
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/AVD_Image1_a_3706-8x10a-640x288.jpg
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Chalet_rear_homepage.jpg
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/Lodge_homepage.jpg
The first two most interesting to my wife and I, as we have mixed stone and wood upstairs in the family room and in the master bedroom.
Step 2: Select Interior Designer (done!)
Step 3: Site visit from Acoustic Consultant (tomorrow!)
Very much looking forward to meeting Dr. Bonnie and exploring what can be done. If I get close to the results Steve has achieved, I am going to be thrilled.
Steps 4—??? TBD, hopefully before autumn I can be complete.
Here's a couple home theater rooms we like, and while NOT being designed as a private theater, we do like the look of these rooms which would fit into the overall 'modern lodge' theme of our home. One thing I know, when it comes to construction CUSTOM is a four-letter word!
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/AVD_Image1_a_3706-8x10a-640x288.jpg
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Chalet_rear_homepage.jpg
http://www.paradisetheater.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/Lodge_homepage.jpg
The first two most interesting to my wife and I, as we have mixed stone and wood upstairs in the family room and in the master bedroom.
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(Cross posted on RonR's thread)
Bonnie visited yesterday and said my room wasn't too bad after all, had some issues when the volume went up (as I had known and experienced), that she could make the room sound good even with a large glass window and two glass doors behind the speakers. She told the interior designer to go ahead and design the space, she'd make it sound good. She was a delightful woman passionate about her work and seems to have a real desire to get great results and make the client happy.
She told the designer not to be afraid to use mixed materials, including stone, and both liked the first picture above and thought something similar would fit well in our home. Bonnie really loved the view from the listening position (and when we thin the trees Mt. Hood will be framed in the window) so she said that was not a major hindrance to good sound providing other walls are properly treated.
It is very exciting to have kicked off the remodel, the planning can now begin.
Bonnie visited yesterday and said my room wasn't too bad after all, had some issues when the volume went up (as I had known and experienced), that she could make the room sound good even with a large glass window and two glass doors behind the speakers. She told the interior designer to go ahead and design the space, she'd make it sound good. She was a delightful woman passionate about her work and seems to have a real desire to get great results and make the client happy.
She told the designer not to be afraid to use mixed materials, including stone, and both liked the first picture above and thought something similar would fit well in our home. Bonnie really loved the view from the listening position (and when we thin the trees Mt. Hood will be framed in the window) so she said that was not a major hindrance to good sound providing other walls are properly treated.
It is very exciting to have kicked off the remodel, the planning can now begin.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Congratulations Bob
you will be amazed at what she can do. She told me the same about the two windows at the front of my room.
you will be amazed at what she can do. She told me the same about the two windows at the front of my room.
As things are want to go... I fired my interior designer this week. For some reason she could not deliver a concept drawing in advance of doing the design. No way I was giving her cart blanche to spend time coming up with a design without knowing first where we were going. Wierd. Every other designer I'm looking at promises a proposal with concept drawing as a first step. How the hell did I find the one who couldn't do that. ****. I was hoping to have drawings complete for the contractor by the end of the month.
And what I have learned... Just about every audio gear store lists 'custom home theaters' in their list of offerings, but if you drill down and ask who actually designs the space, its not them. More accurate would be to limit the listing to 'sales and installation'. Most can't even refer a designer, though a couple have mentioned they know of a cabinet maker or two. And most interior designers are skilled with the kitchen or bath remodel, outside that they have limited experience.
And what I have learned... Just about every audio gear store lists 'custom home theaters' in their list of offerings, but if you drill down and ask who actually designs the space, its not them. More accurate would be to limit the listing to 'sales and installation'. Most can't even refer a designer, though a couple have mentioned they know of a cabinet maker or two. And most interior designers are skilled with the kitchen or bath remodel, outside that they have limited experience.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Thanks Steve, there are things my wife is good at... as a commercial banker running one the biggest offices in the country, she has the respect of business leaders throughout the Pacific NW, but interior design—not so much. Nor does she have time for it. And she'll be the first one to tell you.
We are looking for the person who can develop the look (that part should be easy) but also the blueprints to provide the contractor, as well as specifying bill-of-materials (with collaboration from SoundSense.) One we have the right person/firm, I believe things will go quickly. Also, I suck as a general contrator (or I should say I hate that job) so prefer the project management is part of the plan. I run my business from home, and can easily get distracted dealing with contractors, so prefer to hire out.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I understand your point Bob
I will never forget when they showed up the first day to build the subfloor above my living room and the hammers started going and I knew the game was on.
It'll all come together for you
I will never forget when they showed up the first day to build the subfloor above my living room and the hammers started going and I knew the game was on.
It'll all come together for you
Bonnie is one of the nicest people one ever meets. I still remember my first meeting with her and hours we spent not talking shop, but about life and family. We were hosting her giving a talk to top architects and builders in our area, and she presented this super easy to understand acoustic concepts in the way they could relate to.
Amir, thats a hell of a vote of confidence. Thanks for that.
I was sitting this evening listening to music... Looking out at our amazing stand of fir trees, doors open, listening to the background white noice of the running stream while listening to Van Morrison, Steely Dan, War, Santana, and finally Mussorgsky.
So now I am convinced, don't go crazy on room aesthetics, just put in a wide format window, cut some of the firs, and open the view to Mt. Hood. Sitting and listening and watching the sun go down on one of the most picturesque volcanoes anywhere, that has to become the focus. With the doors open to the deck, I lose some transient attack, but some of the room issues balance out. It tells me having the light and view from the window, if Bonnie can deal with a big window acoustically, will make for one sweet place to sit and listen. I'm going to get this dialed in, it will be worth getting right. (With curtains to draw once the sun is down, for the ultimate sound.)
Its been a long while since I updated this thread. As it turned out, autumn slipped into winter much faster than I expected, and I was not about to have contractors tearing up the house during the monsoon season here in the PNW. So we took our time with the plans, nailing down the size of the windows, where to put the custom built-in album drawers, choosing fabric for the walls and curtains. My idea of a big wide window (think wide-screen tv) was smashed by code requirements to have egress from any room, and with those openings pre-defined in minumum size. So the window changed a little, overall the aesthetic will still be great.
We'll have curtains across the two openings in the rear of the room, at the base of the stairs and the hallway opposite. The hallway area will house a new wine cellar with floor to ceiling glass across the front, and all home electonics will be relocated to a custom closet between the wine cellar and music room. That way telephone, cable, ethernet, etc will be in one central location.
Now the blueprints are finally off to Bonnie @ Soundsense. She's provided a few details already, but with all the dimensions finalized she'll run her modelling. We've chosen to have a couple floating angled walls where the doors were previously, and they will be adjusted to be large bass traps/Hiemholz resonators.
With Bonnie's specs, the general contractor can finally work up the bill of materials, budget, and project timeline. There is at least a 10-12 week lead in wine cellar materials, and the custom cabinets will take time, so it is all shaping up for construction during the summer months, when I'm out riding my bike and spending less time listening.
When the designer has completed her water-color renderings, I'll scan them and post them. It is going to be a vastly different look than the pictures posted to start this thread. I'm excited for the future... an awesome looking and sounding room without a bunch of acoustic treatments cluttering up the walls.
We'll have curtains across the two openings in the rear of the room, at the base of the stairs and the hallway opposite. The hallway area will house a new wine cellar with floor to ceiling glass across the front, and all home electonics will be relocated to a custom closet between the wine cellar and music room. That way telephone, cable, ethernet, etc will be in one central location.
Now the blueprints are finally off to Bonnie @ Soundsense. She's provided a few details already, but with all the dimensions finalized she'll run her modelling. We've chosen to have a couple floating angled walls where the doors were previously, and they will be adjusted to be large bass traps/Hiemholz resonators.
With Bonnie's specs, the general contractor can finally work up the bill of materials, budget, and project timeline. There is at least a 10-12 week lead in wine cellar materials, and the custom cabinets will take time, so it is all shaping up for construction during the summer months, when I'm out riding my bike and spending less time listening.
When the designer has completed her water-color renderings, I'll scan them and post them. It is going to be a vastly different look than the pictures posted to start this thread. I'm excited for the future... an awesome looking and sounding room without a bunch of acoustic treatments cluttering up the walls.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Well f_ck me! I'm appreciating Ron's challenges getting his room built. After a year working with a designer to come up with a most elegant design, working with Bonnie to get the acoustics sorted out, and working with a general contractor who paraded a host of sub contractors through the house, we were supposed to be getting underway with demolition in the next week or two. Along the way, I had been pestering the general to give me his final budget but he kept delaying this and the actual schedule. Finally I get a number from him that is from another universe. In my opinion he is at least $50k high.
Consider his work, not the electrical, small plumbing job, or building of the cabinets or wine cellar, amounts to demolition, framing in a couple of small walls, applying sheetrock, tape, texture, some paint, and final finish cabinetry. Installation of insulation and sound deadening materials in the walls, the ceiling, and installation of fabric walls and custom sound panels was all to be done by the acoustic firm's people.
Now, to be honest this is a remodel of a reasonable sized space, you could think of it as a major kitchen remodel without any major tile work, granite, or new appliances. Custom cabinets for album storage and some cabinetry for the utility room adjacent. Not a tiny project, not a whole house re-do. No load bearing walls being moved.
And then I get a number that is just f_ing astromically high. This contractor was my designers go-to guy, so I had not been checking with others ( my mistake ), or getting bids from my own subs with the exception of a little HVAC portion. The number was so high my initial reaction was to scrap the whole project. Fortunately, Bonnie said she could still work with me to make the room sound amazing.
So now there will be a little back to the drawing board. If I now have to find a new contractor, subs, etc., getting on their schedule alone will take some time. So I am going to reduce the scope and scale back, with the hope of getting this done still before November and the crappy weather season. Else, it'll be another year because I won't have contractors mucking about during the winter months.
Wish me luck! (Did I mention how much I hate contractors?)
Consider his work, not the electrical, small plumbing job, or building of the cabinets or wine cellar, amounts to demolition, framing in a couple of small walls, applying sheetrock, tape, texture, some paint, and final finish cabinetry. Installation of insulation and sound deadening materials in the walls, the ceiling, and installation of fabric walls and custom sound panels was all to be done by the acoustic firm's people.
Now, to be honest this is a remodel of a reasonable sized space, you could think of it as a major kitchen remodel without any major tile work, granite, or new appliances. Custom cabinets for album storage and some cabinetry for the utility room adjacent. Not a tiny project, not a whole house re-do. No load bearing walls being moved.
And then I get a number that is just f_ing astromically high. This contractor was my designers go-to guy, so I had not been checking with others ( my mistake ), or getting bids from my own subs with the exception of a little HVAC portion. The number was so high my initial reaction was to scrap the whole project. Fortunately, Bonnie said she could still work with me to make the room sound amazing.
So now there will be a little back to the drawing board. If I now have to find a new contractor, subs, etc., getting on their schedule alone will take some time. So I am going to reduce the scope and scale back, with the hope of getting this done still before November and the crappy weather season. Else, it'll be another year because I won't have contractors mucking about during the winter months.
Wish me luck! (Did I mention how much I hate contractors?)
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Indeed, if these are my problems in life I am phenomenally blessed. Thanks be to God.
