Boulder 3060 smooth and a maybe even a bit warm?

[RCanelas]

I was at Ultimate last week, second time hearing the 3060. First time it was paired with the new B&W flagship and this time Martin Dunhoff from Audiovector was presenting the (also flagship, there is a pattern here somewhere...) R8.



Although the listening was limited, I came out impressed both times. The apparent level of control and limitless dynamics allowed for a very musical experience, even with loudspeakers that could otherwise also be described as dry and a bit cold for my taste.

 

[LL21]

Fantastic...what amps have you heard there? Did you hear Gryphon or the CH M10 series while you were there by any chance?

 

[RCanelas]

Fantastic...what amps have you heard there? Did you hear Gryphon or the CH M10 series while you were there by any chance?

had some time with the Gryphon Antileon EVO Stereo driving Verity Audio (a few months ago, not sure if the Sarastro or the Lohengrin) and that was very, very good. The tonal density and lushness was just flooring. I might have been sold by the demonstration from Rune, but the Antileon was seriously impressive.

Other fun experiences lately at Ultimate involve the Ongaku and Avantgarde Duo, but there it became harder to understand where one ends and the other starts, they both have very unique presentations, I'd need more time.

 

[LL21]

had some time with the Gryphon Antileon EVO Stereo driving Verity Audio (a few months ago, not sure if the Sarastro or the Lohengrin) and that was very, very good. The tonal density and lushness was just flooring. I might have been sold by the demonstration from Rune, but the Antileon was seriously impressive.

Other fun experiences lately at Ultimate involve the Ongaku and Avantgarde Duo, but there it became harder to understand where one ends and the other starts, they both have very unique presentations, I'd need more time.

Great stuff...yes, the Gryphon tonal density is remarkable. We had the Antileon original, then the Colosseum and then the Mephisto over a 12 year period for that very reason.

If you can 'guess', how did you feel the 3060 and the Gryphon compared?

 

[RCanelas]

Great stuff...yes, the Gryphon tonal density is remarkable. We had the Antileon original, then the Colosseum and then the Mephisto over a 12 year period for that very reason.

If you can 'guess', how did you feel the 3060 and the Gryphon compared?

I'm not sure I can give you a good 'guess' Conditions were too different and far apart for me to even pretend I could compare anything. I can however say both of them are prime examples or extreme performance, curated design and high power amplification (I'm guessing no news here, sorry).

I'm absolutely sure they are both responsive and sensitive enough for the presentation to be molded by any upstream component, something I find quite attractive for this amp topology, if the aim is to feed contemporary design loudspeakers.

 

[LL21]

Thanks. I am a big fan of Class A Gryphon and Boulder and now Robert Koda. I also remember very well the old Forte 4 amp which was a fantastic 50 watt Class A amp.

And yes, their ability to drive any speaker effortlessly is a big factor for me. As for fine tuning a system or “moulding”as you call it, it is incredibly important…and it helps a lot to start with good fundamentals.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A quote from Yoav Geva when asked if loudspeaker design is more of an art or a science: "That's easy -- it's a science. Our goal should be to accurately convey what's on the recording, and leave the art to the composers and musicians who created the content that's on the recording. Any subjective preference that we impart on the signal would be nothing more than an arrogant attempt to override the musicians' intent. While music is pure emotion, a speaker is nothing more than a machine that converts electrical signals into air-pressure fluctuations. Machines are developed by scientists and engineers, not artists."

I gave Yoav credit for being clear about his loudspeaker design philosophy. Many satisfied customers feel YG loudspeakers achieve Yoav's objective.

Implicitly, however, Yoav is substituting his personal objective of high-end audio ("accurately convey what's on the recording") for the considered and deliberate decision on this question ("what is my objective of high-end audio?") of his customers.

 

[dandylinpsst]

I gave Yoav credit for being clear about his loudspeaker design philosophy. Many satisfied customers feel YG loudspeakers achieve Yoav's objective.

Implicitly, however, Yoav is substituting his personal objective of high-end audio ("accurately convey what's on the recording") for the considered and deliberate decision on this question ("what is my objective of high-end audio?") of his customers.

Is Yoav still in the business?

 

[chuck]

I gave Yoav credit for being clear about his loudspeaker design philosophy. Many satisfied customers feel YG loudspeakers achieve Yoav's objective.

Implicitly, however, Yoav is substituting his personal objective of high-end audio ("accurately convey what's on the recording") for the considered and deliberate decision on this question ("what is my objective of high-end audio?") of his customers.

I can only talk about the YG Sonja XV and XVi speakers, the objective was achieved with these speakers, IMO they accurately convey what is on recordings when paired with the Boulder 3060 -- the soundstage, imaging, details, instrument and voice separation, scale of performance. I have also heard my Sonja XV speakers paired with Audio Research 160M and T+A M 40 HV amps, both of which provided very different answers to "What is high end sound?". As a YG customer I can dramatically change the sound of the speakers by changing the amps or sources, more than I could with the Wilsons I had before.

 

[tobiasrankin]

With no disrespect Chuck I feel that you present a false dichotomy driven by personal, subjective preference. It is not the case that only the 3060 is in some objective way correct, and that any other amp will "make every recording sound 'smooth' and 'musical.'"

I appreciate that you are more of a "hear everything on the recording, warts and all, just the facts" type of audiophile, and that is great, but many others have a different high-end audio objective and prefer a different sound. For your personal sonic preference I think you have put together the perfect system. This is why you are so happy with your system, and I truly am very happy for you!

There is a large and wide spectrum of sonic options and varieties between the coolness* and control of a Boulder and the "make every recording sound 'smooth' and 'musical'" of, for example, a syrupy old-fashioned tube amplifier.

Some people want to focus on hearing music, and not hearing the technical and frequency response "limits" of the loudspeakers.

*I have not heard the 3060 myself. But I found other Boulder amps to sound, to me, on the "cool" side. I tend to hear things similarly to Shakti, and if he finds Boulder to be on the cool side I am sure I would concur.

Well said.

 

[DoctorWhy]

Does anyone have direct experience with both the Boulder 3060 and the Gryphon Apex? These are my top two fantasies.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Does anyone have direct experience with both the Boulder 3060 and the Gryphon Apex? These are my top two fantasies.

Yes with both , i d buy The Gryphon.

 

[bryans]

Does anyone have direct experience with both the Boulder 3060 and the Gryphon Apex? These are my top two fantasies.

Honestly how can you go wrong with either of these? This is like choosing between bottles of fine wine.

 

[Hyperion]

Where did Yoav Geva go after leaving YG?

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[gleeds]

Does anyone have direct experience with both the Boulder 3060 and the Gryphon Apex? These are my top two fantasies.

Doctor Why. I have extensive experience with the XLF and various amplifiers powering them. Of the two amplifiers you would IMHO be better served with the Gryphon due to the XLF's inverted dome tweeters where the highs sound wonderful on for example Lamm GM70 tube amplifiers and a select number of SS amplifiers that have a smoothish (is that a word?) top end response that the Gryphon is known for and Boulder are generally not. To be clear, that is not a criticism of Boulder amplifiers in general, merely in reference to your need for amplification using the XLF speakers which I have listened to often with various amplifiers including our own Class A models from WestminsterLab. Good luck in your search.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Of the two amplifiers you would IMHO be better served with the Gryphon

a select number of SS amplifiers that have a smoothish (is that a word?) top end response that the Gryphon is known for and Boulder are generally not.

+1

 

[nonesup]

Doctor Why. I have extensive experience with the XLF and various amplifiers powering them. Of the two amplifiers you would IMHO be better served with the Gryphon due to the XLF's inverted dome tweeters where the highs sound wonderful on for example Lamm GM70 tube amplifiers and a select number of SS amplifiers that have a smoothish (is that a word?) top end response that the Gryphon is known for and Boulder are generally not. To be clear, that is not a criticism of Boulder amplifiers in general, merely in reference to your need for amplification using the XLF speakers which I have listened to often with various amplifiers including our own Class A models from WestminsterLab. Good luck in your search.

I think the XLF has a silk dome tweeter

 

[chuck]

Doctor Why. I have extensive experience with the XLF and various amplifiers powering them. Of the two amplifiers you would IMHO be better served with the Gryphon due to the XLF's inverted dome tweeters where the highs sound wonderful on for example Lamm GM70 tube amplifiers and a select number of SS amplifiers that have a smoothish (is that a word?) top end response that the Gryphon is known for and Boulder are generally not. To be clear, that is not a criticism of Boulder amplifiers in general, merely in reference to your need for amplification using the XLF speakers which I have listened to often with various amplifiers including our own Class A models from WestminsterLab. Good luck in your search.

You obviously have never heard Wilson XLF speakers powered by a 3060, a combination I owned for two years. The XLF uses the Wilson convergent technology tweeter, a standard soft dome. The Wilson X2S2, that I also owned and powered with a 3060, had the inverted titanium tweeter sourced from Focal. I have not heard the Gryphon Apex.

 

[andromedaaudio]

These are my top two fantasies.

lol

 

[gleeds]

You obviously have never heard Wilson XLF speakers powered by a 3060, a combination I owned for two years. The XLF uses the Wilson convergent technology tweeter, a standard soft dome. The Wilson X2S2, that I also owned and powered with a 3060, had the inverted titanium tweeter sourced from Focal. I have not heard the Gryphon Apex.

You obviously have never heard Wilson XLF speakers powered by a 3060, a combination I owned for two years. The XLF uses the Wilson convergent technology tweeter, a standard soft dome. The Wilson X2S2, that I also owned and powered with a 3060, had the inverted titanium tweeter sourced from Focal. I have not heard the Gryphon Apex.

Hi Chuck. I verified with the owner just now that the Wilson model I was referring to is an X2 series Alexandra using the Focal inverted dome. With all the model changes Wilson makes one can mistake the model so I apologize for any confusion to you and the members. I have also listened to both the 3060 and Gryphon amplifiers in two different systems using the Alex Vs; and while both are very fine amplifiers the Gryphon was to my ear decidedly more to my liking tonally.