Cable Elevators

[TBG]

Not much to say about the cable elevators.. My opinion was stated at the beginning of this thread.

For those who invoke vibrations, these are mostly airborne and there is no way a cable elevators will help in this area. If the listener is pleased with the results however debatable their existence could be, that is all that counts. I it a hobby after all.
As for static electricity...

I am on a second floor with hardwood flooring, everybody that I have demonstrated using porcelain with a glaze under all cables have hear improvements and more importantly a single isolator is by far best. I have demonstrated this also on many carpeted floors. I have also proved at least to myself that wood is a poor isolator and a poor vibration solution.

Stillpoints and Star Sound Tech are the two best and diametrically different but effective vibration solutions. One turns all vertical vibrations into heat and the other seeks to get vibrations to the earth as quickly as possible. I have both at different points in my system. Airborne vibrations, of course, shake everything starting with the speakers that generate them. Anything with a signal that moves creates a motion in the magnetic field that in turn generates a signal in any wire that is reproduced along with the music. While I use High Fidelity Cables with magnets that repel magnetic fields, I have found vibration treatments do help reduce the noise in the music.

I really don't understand those who dismiss both concerns about vibrations and static electric corruptors. They are clearly audible.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
As for static electricity...

Yes, Frantz, please tell us what you think about static electricity. But please remember we were addressing a similar static charge case recently - applying DC bias to polarize film capacitors in some Harman speakers crossovers. And we still do not have an acceptable explanation for it.

 

[FrantzM]

Yes, Frantz, please tell us what you think about static electricity. But please remember we were addressing a similar static charge case recently - applying DC bias to polarize film capacitors in some Harman speakers crossovers. And we still do not have an acceptable explanation for it.

Not much , this is not the venue perhaps you could open a thread on the matter.

 

[fas42]

To throw in my two bits worth, if you're going to take static problems seriously - which I do - then you need to take it very seriously, don't leave any stone unturned. The real benefits won't be realised until every last problem area is addressed, IME.

 

[FrantzM]

To throw in my two bits worth, if you're going to take static problems seriously - which I do - then you need to take it very seriously, don't leave any stone unturned. The real benefits won't be realised until every last problem area is addressed, IME.

That could take a looooong time to see "real" benefit if every problem area is to be addressed... Opaque and vague enough to mean anything or nothing. Certain things don't change

 

[Speedskater]

The common way to deal with static electricity, is to use a high ohm drain resistor. In the past, I had catalogs with a section on static draining products. Things like wrist straps, shoe covers,and work-desk covers. They all have high leakage resistance. Maybe 10 Meg Ohm and up. An insulator is the last thing you want.

 

[FrantzM]

The common way to deal with static electricity, is to use a high ohm drain resistor. In the past, I had catalogs with a section on static draining products. Things like wrist straps, shoe covers,and work-desk covers. They all have high leakage resistance. Maybe 10 Meg Ohm and up. An insulator is the last thing you want.

That is correct.

 

[Speedskater]

That is correct.

But on the other hand in a hi-fi system, the only times static electricity is a problem is when you plug or un-plug something.
In low impedance circuits, static never builds a charge. And from a static electricity point of view 1 Meg Ohm is low impedance.

 

[TBG]

But on the other hand in a hi-fi system, the only times static electricity is a problem is when you plug or un-plug something.
In low impedance circuits, static never builds a charge. And from a static electricity point of view 1 Meg Ohm is low impedance.

Well, go ahead with that thought, but I know it is not true. Ears allow much more refined assessment of the impact of isolation from static electric and of vibrations.

 

[Speedskater]

My ears don't go down to DC.

Back at the radio stations, we had problems with static electricity, but on the signal cables? No never.

 

[cjf]

I am on a second floor with hardwood flooring, everybody that I have demonstrated using porcelain with a glaze under all cables have hear improvements and more importantly a single isolator is by far best. I have demonstrated this also on many carpeted floors. I have also proved at least to myself that wood is a poor isolator and a poor vibration solution.

Lol... I wonder what kind of "glaze" we are reffering to here that is being applied under all these cables?

I would also argue that wood is an excellent isolator and vibration isolation solution (to a point of course). When taking the objects we are reffering to into consideration wood is more than adequate IMO.

Maybe we should just hang a string from the ceiling and wrap it around the cable in question so it remains suspended in the air? If the right kind of string is used I would think its guitar string vibrating properties could dissipate any resonance before it reaches the audio cable its suspending. Dunno

 

[FrantzM]

Well, go ahead with that thought, but I know it is not true. Ears allow much more refined assessment of the impact of isolation from static electric and of vibrations.

TBG

What you hear is not the issue of the debate. We can doubt all we want, it won't change what you think you hear with the use of the "elevators" however real they may be ... or not. Once you leap however into cause to effects explanations then you are required to provide proofs.. Static and vibrations cannot be dealt with cable elevators nor do they affect electric signals in the way you describe; that's all.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Surely that's only valid if musicality can actually be defined and measured... which clearly it can't be until some essential understanding of how musicality is actually perceived within the brain and then how the limits of measurement are yet to also be related to what is a also an essentially yet to be understood function of the mind.

 

[TBG]

My ears don't go down to DC.

Back at the radio stations, we had problems with static electricity, but on the signal cables? No never.

So, why do you say this? I have no radio station. Tell me why using chips are sent in anti-static linings and people use ionizing devices on LPs.

Try putting only one ceramic isolation device between the speaker wire and the floor and listen to music before and after doing so. A NASA guy for whom I did this demonstration, said, "Had it not been you, I would have never believed that this would matter, but wow!"

 

[microstrip]

TBG

What you hear is not the issue of the debate. We can doubt all we want, it won't change what you think you hear with the use of the "elevators" however real they may be ... or not. Once you leap however into cause to effects explanations then you are required to provide proofs.. Static and vibrations cannot be dealt with cable elevators nor do they affect electric signals in the way you describe; that's all.

Frantz,

Static charges follow Coulomb law, that follows an inverse square law. A cable vibrating in high electrostatic field can generate noise. IMHO if we accept that cables can sound different, we can easily accept that this type of interference can be audible.

 

[stehno]

Frantz,

Static charges follow Coulomb law, that follows an inverse square law. A cable vibrating in high electrostatic field can generate noise. IMHO if we accept that cables can sound different, we can easily accept that this type of interference can be audible.

Well said, microstrip.

But I should ask, what percentage of the readership do you suppose might accept that cables can sound different?

 

[fas42]

Frantz,

Static charges follow Coulomb law, that follows an inverse square law. A cable vibrating in high electrostatic field can generate noise. IMHO if we accept that cables can sound different, we can easily accept that this type of interference can be audible.

Triboelectric effects are a mongrel - I've experienced some which are "absolutely crazy"; as in, the linkage between what was done and the audible effect just leaves one head scratching ... the only solution is to track down everything that might have an impact, and try separating, or stabilising the positioning of parts, cables, etc.

There's quite a world to explore in these sort of tweaks ...

 

[TBG]

TBG

What you hear is not the issue of the debate. We can doubt all we want, it won't change what you think you hear with the use of the "elevators" however real they may be ... or not. Once you leap however into cause to effects explanations then you are required to provide proofs.. Static and vibrations cannot be dealt with cable elevators nor do they affect electric signals in the way you describe; that's all.

There is no debate IMHO. One of my passing majors in undergraduate school was EE until it conflicted with my physics classes. I admit that I don't have sensitive enough instruments to measure the charge, but I do hear benefits as do others in my many trials. This is the last I will post on this thread.

 

[stehno]

Triboelectric effects are a mongrel - I've experienced some which are "absolutely crazy"; as in, the linkage between what was done and the audible effect just leaves one head scratching ... the only solution is to track down everything that might have an impact, and try separating, or stabilising the positioning of parts, cables, etc.

There's quite a world to explore in these sort of tweaks ...

As mentioned many posts ago, I like to dabble with trying to control mechanical energy and I was mighty impressed with this rather simple tweak by its 4th day of settling. And that was after auditioning a 3rd party company's highly rated cable lifters for the previous 6 weeks for which I was rather surprised by their performance after just 2 days of settling.

My hunch was - since wire vibrates when current is passing thru (implying enough resonant energy to potentially induce audible distortions) any reasonable attempt to damp such opportunity for these Audio Tekne speaker cables to vibrate (and encased in a tightly wrapped metal dielectric)... Well, I was guessing that any insignificant attempt to minimize such opportunities just might reduce enough distortion to have a positive audible effect.

Whether that explains the real cause for the multiple improvements or not, I may never know. If anybody has other suggestions for the improvements, I'm all ears. Regardless, it works surprisingly well in my config.

FYI, those are 4" square acoustic strips used with my bi-wire config.

 

[microstrip]

Well said, microstrip.

But I should ask, what percentage of the readership do you suppose might accept that cables can sound different?

Any one using cables costing more than USD 50 is intrinsically accepting cables sound different. Should we carry a poll on cable price of our members? And still many of those using low cost cables are true believers - they say the expensive cables color the sound.