Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

And yet you have been pushing the mythical skills of your turntable dealer as having setup your vinyl system ever since the vintage Japanese deck that he originally sold you …

“ It can be very satisfying to know you did it “

Perhaps I am missing something.

Curious!


David's skills are not mythical. He has superior knowledge and experience, just like others who are good at it. Just ask his clients who hire him to fly around the world to set up systems. Steve W hired him to set up his TechDAS AF1 because the dealer could not do it and to then also set up subsequent cartridges. I have not pushed David's set up skills. There is no need. I have described the results of his work in some posts because I have heard the results directly, but have never shared the process or taught anyone how to do it. It is not my place. David only shares them with friends and customers.

I set up my own cartridges and arms long before I met David Karmeli. I mounted cartridge's in friend's systems too. Then, two or three years ago, David taught me his process when I visited him in Utah the first time. I learned by doing. He walked me through the process while I set up the cartridge and tone arm on his system. He taught me a very specific process that I now use myself.

I left Utah and came back to my house and set up the cartridges on my vintage Japanese Micro Seiki SX 8000II after it arrived. David then came and we reviewed his process and improved the set up slightly. I then got Vladimir Lamm's AS1000 and set up the cartridge and arm to compare to my MS table in my own system. I then bought the AS2000 and made those comparisons, always setting up the arms and cartridges myself. David then came to visit a second time to confirm set up and to hear my new system. I made some slight adjustments based on his comments.

I have quite a few cartridges now and switch between them, always requiring new set up. I actually installed a Colibri yesterday before a friend came over to hear my system. I do not have the knowledge or experience that David has, but I do it myself, and yes, "It can be very satisfying to know you did it."
 
(Emphasis added.)

This is clearly an incorrect statement, Peter. You need to consider the actual arguments made more carefully.

Here is Kingrex' original post:



Here is my interpretation following Rexp's post:





Kingrex agreed, and again makes a statement that proves yours false:

Al, what is false about my statement here:?

We can not really get into the reasons. Rex simply prefers his digital in one room to his vinyl in another room, and from that he makes a general conclusion about vinyl versus digital. It is only his opinion. Others can question the value of the conclusion based on comparing two formats in different rooms I suppose, but it's Rex's system and he is happy, so all is good.

1. Rex does prefer his digital in one room to his vinyl in another room.
2. He does make a general conclusion about vinyl versus digital. Rex: "By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup."
3. It is only his opinion.
4. Others can question the value of the conclusion based on comparing two formats in different rooms.
5. It is Rex's system.
6. He is happy.
7. It is all good.

I actually think Rex's post about the colorations of vinyl are consistent with his opinions of vinyl versus digital and support his earlier conclusions and my subsequent post. I read a clear preference for one over the other, and as I said, that is fine. His opinion, his system, his preference, his enjoyment. It is all good.

Rex: "What was also good were some digital rips from vinyl people have sent me in the past. They play very well. But I'm pretty sure I hear the vinyl playback equipment in the chain. A subtle shaping of the sound. A slight coloration. Not bad in any way. Just some color. It makes me wonder how much color one vinyl system to another has compared to digital."
 
He has superior knowledge and experience,
Some guy fiddles around with a few pickup cartridges and becomes a deity in some folks eyes … Hardly a surgeon or orthodontist or master watchmaker , an oncology nurse or even a skilled automotive mechanic is he ? Could he even re-build a pick up cartridge or replace a stylus ? No … In reality he is merely another used hifi dealer isn’t he ?
 
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Al, what is false about my statement here:?

We can not really get into the reasons. Rex simply prefers his digital in one room to his vinyl in another room, and from that he makes a general conclusion about vinyl versus digital. It is only his opinion. Others can question the value of the conclusion based on comparing two formats in different rooms I suppose, but it's Rex's system and he is happy, so all is good.

1. Rex does prefer his digital in one room to his vinyl in another room.
2. He does make a general conclusion about vinyl versus digital. Rex: "By this thinking, I could say digital is just as good, if not better than vinyl and tape, depending of the equipment setup."
3. It is only his opinion.
4. Others can question the value of the conclusion based on comparing two formats in different rooms.
5. It is Rex's system.
6. He is happy.
7. It is all good.

I actually think Rex's post about the colorations of vinyl are consistent with his opinions of vinyl versus digital and support his earlier conclusions and my subsequent post. I read a clear preference for one over the other, and as I said, that is fine. His opinion, his system, his preference, his enjoyment. It is all good.

Rex: "What was also good were some digital rips from vinyl people have sent me in the past. They play very well. But I'm pretty sure I hear the vinyl playback equipment in the chain. A subtle shaping of the sound. A slight coloration. Not bad in any way. Just some color. It makes me wonder how much color one vinyl system to another has compared to digital."

As to point 2, Peter, you are only quoting some of the relevant bit. In his post he also says (emphasis added):
"That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true."

Also, the part that you quote says "depending on the equipment set-up". This emphatically does not sound like, what you claim, is a "general conclusion about vinyl versus digital".

Also, as I pointed out in my post, a follow-up post of Kingrex states:
"Yes, If I set up my vinyl, it would probably supersede my digital on some source material. Not all. But the point is the room is having a profound impact. More so than I thought."

So again he does not make a blanket statement in favor of either medium.

***

As I suggested, please consider the actual arguments made more carefully.

Yet you are not the only one who could improve on this front.

(Sometimes I myself am even guilty of misreading or misinterpreting, but I do my best not to, and in general I do think I am more careful than some others are.)
 
As to point 2, Peter, you are only quoting some of the relevant bit. In his post he also says (emphasis added):
"That can be interpreted as digital is better than vinyl and tape, depending on the setup. One could argue I have to re-install the vinyl and tape to compare. They should have improved also. Maybe true."

Also, the part that you quote says "depending on the equipment set-up". This emphatically does not sound like, what you claim, is a "general conclusion about vinyl versus digital".

Also, as I pointed out in my post, a follow-up post of Kingrex states:
"Yes, If I set up my vinyl, it would probably supersede my digital on some source material. Not all. But the point is the room is having a profound impact. More so than I thought."

So again he does not make a blanket statement in favor of either medium.

***

As I suggested, please consider the actual arguments made more carefully.

Yet you are not the only one who could improve on this front.

(Sometimes I myself am even guilty of misreading or misinterpreting, but I do my best not to, and in general I do think I am more careful than some others are.)

As I said, it’s Rex’s opinion. There’s no point in arguing about it. He seems to be enjoying his new system and that’s great.
 
As I said, it’s Rex’s opinion. There’s no point in arguing about it.

There's no point arguing about Rex's opinion, that's true, but there was a point arguing about what is actually Rex's opinion. Misrepresentation is not a good thing.
 
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There's no point arguing about Rex's opinion, that's true, but there was a point arguing about what is actually Rex's opinion. Misrepresentation is not a good thing.

I would prefer Rex to clarify his opinion than to argue endlessly with you. Arguing with a neighbor about November would be more fun.
 
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I love it when someone makes manufacturers uncomfortable and maybe up their game. Personally i have never encountered a cartridge that could not be adjusted into excellent performance through traditional means, primarily my eyes and ears. :)
I once had Chris Feickert over at my place when they had the first commercial version of Adjust +. They measured my setup, which I did entirely myself just with a protractor, and declared that there was nothing to adjust…even VTA and Azimuth were spot on. Now I find my vision isn’t as good, so I have more difficulty getting it right…something like Adjust + would now be quite helpful.
 
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Hello Milan!

How do you know J.R. is over-emphasizing this?

From my personal experiences in this hobby, and from the reports of other audiophiles,
Will be interesting to know the other audiophiles, systems they have, and records they play. I know MF is one. Kingrex another.
 

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