Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Joe Whip]

People prefer many different things for many different reasons. But of course, the vinyl guys’ opinion is right. Jeez guys.

 

[hopkins]

True! Why is it then, that the many who appreciate the sound of analogue-vinyl over digital, are content with their “relatively modest” vinyl systems? They must have auditioned at least a few comparable digital systems before taking that decision.

See @Joe Whip 's comment...

 

[Kingrex]

If your digital setup isn’t better than your analog setup, then you are doing something wrong. When MQA came out and with dsd files, I sold my analog setup plus all my vinyl over 5 years ago and never regretted it.
I had a $15k turntable and arm, $5k pre, and my $8k dac sounded better.
It was a pain cleaning all my albums, and even then it couldn’t get all the noise out of the album.
As for sound quality, why did mofi use dsd to create their vinyl albums? everybody swore how good these sounded until they found out digital was involved then magically, they didn’t sound as good as they did a day earlier.
IMO, you need to spend over 10x more on a vinyl setup compared to a digital setup to get close to the same sound quality.

Your response is similar to what I say. Whatever you focus on and tune well will sound best.

If your vinyl is not sounding much better than your digital the issue is in the recordings you use and your downstream system. The system is quite capable of bringing down vinyl to level of the digital so they both sound similar

I don't hear anyone say there is a large sonic delta between proper vinyl and proper digital. Its a subtle sense of air and naturalness with vinyl and a subtle gain of bass power and a type of dark background with digital. But most people will fail a blind test in their own home if someone were to bring their own source material to perform the test with.

 

[Kingrex]

A little off topic but maybe not. Even live, I keep finding instruments such as drums sound less airy and sparkley than I expect it too. Its sort of flat. Lots of power. No depth so to speak. Very not like a stereo. The outdoor lack of reflections makes the sonics very dissimilar to any stereo I heard.

 

[bonzo75]

Its a subtle sense of air and naturalness with vinyl and a subtle gain of bass power and a type of dark background with digital.

This is the description of a very poor, typical hifi system, where only the above difference is heard. You are right, in that case, blind testing might fail. What I am describing does not require bat like ears, it just requires a nice system that lets the obvious through.

 

[thedudeabides]

True! Why is it then, that the many who appreciate the sound of analogue-vinyl over digital, are content with their “relatively modest” vinyl systems?

Why is it then that I am very "content" with my "relatively modest" under $1,000 digital / streaming based system? It's quite simple. I "appreciate" the message much more than the messenger. Something to consider perhaps. For me, the first sentence of Joe's post (3,701) says it all. Best.

FWIW. As I write this, I am listening to the IDAGIO curated playlist entitled "Slow piano - the Art of the Slow Movement". Absolutely stunning.

 

[Kingrex]

This is the description of a very poor, typical hifi system, where only the above difference is heard. You are right, in that case, blind testing might fail. What I am describing does not require bat like ears, it just requires a nice system that lets the obvious through.

In a good hifi system, what do you notice is different between vinyl and digital.

FWIW, I actually find vinyl with a clean record has less background noise than digital. There can be a grainy sound with digital you don't notice.till you do.

 

[Rexp]

Good digital can be just as enjoyable as good vinyl. WBF members disagree on what constitutes Good digital. Some think at least 50% of digital releases sound good, others less than 10%.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Good digital can be just as enjoyable as good vinyl. WBF members disagree on what constitutes Good digital. Some think at least 50% of digital releases sound good, others less than 10%.

i think reading minds and trying to rank experiences beyond the personal is not useful. we hope that all of our musical experiences are satisfying.

OTOH as a person who has 'good digital', maybe even 'fantastic digital' and likely listens to as much digital as anyone here, the richness of the vinyl experience at it's best is unsurpassed for me. even though mostly the access thing does set digital apart in the freedom it offers.

in the last few weeks i've listened to over 100 pressings as i've played my way through a classical collection (listening at Biber, cleaning at Bruckner, organizing at Prokofiev); words cannot really relate how i feel about it. it's my highest point of my hobby experience. and so much of the music is unpretentious and real.....like life itself. it just is. and the alphabet leads me on my travels.

yet the digital experience at it's best is remarkable too. but........realism does matter.

digital is less demanding of effort, and attention to details, which can work both ways depending on your state of mind. but as far as that changing the value of the experience again, that cuts both ways.

just my personal experience as of right now.

 

[wil]

People prefer many different things for many different reasons. But of course, the vinyl guys’ opinion is right. Jeez guys.

Some are apparently desperate to be right over and over again. There really seems to be something verging on religious fervor . It’s getting old. Yes, I need to try harder to ignore.

 

[wil]

Not sure about that, have you listened to some members youtube vids, pretty sure you wouldn't last long in some of those rooms.

And anyone paying attention would be aware that many of those bad sounding room videos are coming from vinyl rigs.

 

[facten]

If

Some think at least 50% of digital releases sound good, others less than 10%.

Would guess that not all vinyl releases sound good either given that folks appear to purchase multiples of the same release in search of the one

 

[wil]

Good digital can be just as enjoyable as good vinyl. WBF members disagree on what constitutes Good digital. Some think at least 50% of digital releases sound good, others less than 10%.

This is pretty meaningless. Are you talking about pop music? Are you talking about classical releases; jazz releases?
Those are very different realities as far as recording quality goes.

There are an incredible amount of digital releases easily accessible. I could spend several lifetimes accumulating many thousands of great digital recordings while easily ignoring all the bad ones.

 

[Rexp]

There are an incredible amount of digital releases easily accessible. I could spend several lifetimes accumulating many thousands of great digital recordings while easily ignoring all the bad ones.

Yes I don't doubt that you like a far higher proportion of digital releases than I do. There is no right or wrong, we just hear differently.

 

[hopkins]

Yes I don't doubt that you like a far higher proportion of digital releases than I do. There is no right or wrong, we just hear differently.

Stop whining and get yourself a turntable then!

And if you believe we all hear differently then what's the point of you being on an audio forum???

 

[hopkins]

A "CD only" release that sounds really good, IMO:

Bossas and Ballads - Stan Getz and Kenny Barron
Recorded in 1989.

Posted in my thread but thought I'd share it here as well.

Nice extended piano solo by Barron starting around 4:45.

It's a studio recording but sounds like a live recording.

Give it a try (in your system)! Let me know what you think.

Open Qobuz

open.qobuz.com

 

[wil]

Yes I don't doubt that you like a far higher proportion of digital releases than I do. There is no right or wrong, we just hear differently.

I doubt that we hear differently. Perhaps I have put much more effort to make sure my system is built and optimized to sound better with a digital source? That seems much more likely. There can be a variety of factors involved.

 

[heihei]

i think reading minds and trying to rank experiences beyond the personal is not useful. we hope that all of our musical experiences are satisfying.

OTOH as a person who has 'good digital', maybe even 'fantastic digital' and likely listens to as much digital as anyone here, the richness of the vinyl experience at it's best is unsurpassed for me. even though mostly the access thing does set digital apart in the freedom it offers.

in the last few weeks i've listened to over 100 pressings as i've played my way through a classical collection (listening at Biber, cleaning at Bruckner, organizing at Prokofiev); words cannot really relate how i feel about it. it's my highest point of my hobby experience. and so much of the music is unpretentious and real.....like life itself. it just is. and the alphabet leads me on my travels.

yet the digital experience at it's best is remarkable too. but........realism does matter.

digital is less demanding of effort, and attention to details, which can work both ways depending on your state of mind. but as far as that changing the value of the experience again, that cuts both ways.

just my personal experience as of right now.

I think this encapsulates how I view things. I've spent the past 2 months just listening to vinyl due to (a) my Horizon off for some repairs, and (b) having the RCA RIAA Mk 2 phono stage on loan. I'm by and large enjoying the ritual of playing records, but the big reward is the naturalness of the listening experience. My Horizon is now back and plugged back in, so will be interesting how the balance of my listening shifts.

 

[thedudeabides]

And if you believe we all hear differently then what's the point of you being on an audio forum???

To talk about music?

 

[thedudeabides]

A "CD only" release that sounds really good.

There are numerous. One simply has to listen with an open mind and put all personal biases aside.

Additionally, If you are music vs gear centric and prioritize available music source "format" choices, digital appears to be the best option.