Of course it’s fallacious. That was my point.
Julian Hirsch’s approach is what precipitated the creation of TAS, Stereophile and the “high end.”
Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
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Julian Hirsch’s approach is what precipitated the creation of TAS, Stereophile and the “high end.”
You posted that as comment on a "yawn" to your assertion that digital is indistinguishable from the master, digital or analog.
Well, it's not indistinguishable from the master. A/D conversion in practice has its imperfections, and D/A conversion in practice is not perfect either. So what is "facts" and "science" about your assertion?
I'm willing to do a blind test between
It's measurable it's the lowest distortion format possible , it adds or deducts nothing from the sound .
And also mastering engineers say that it's pretty much identical to what they heard in the studio
Which is the exact opposite of what is said about vinyl that has it's own measurable limitations and pretty much it's own sound , which digital has none of that .
Again don't ask me , ask professional engineers creating albums .(Like in that PS Audio video )
Facts and science are that it is the closest to the original matser as there can be
It's measurable it's the lowest distortion format possible , it adds or deducts nothing from the sound .
And also mastering engineers say that it's pretty much identical to what they heard in the studio
Which is the exact opposite of what is said about vinyl that has it's own measurable limitations and pretty much it's own sound , which digital has none of that .
Again don't ask me , ask professional engineers creating albums .(Like in that PS Audio video )
Paul McGowan has no more or less cred than anyone else. and professional engineers don't either. few of them have access to top level playback gear and sources. how would they know what can be done? they see the sausage when it's made, but don't do the fine cooking.
you can post their quotes, but don't expect anyone to salute. it's an opinion, and data point, but far from proof.
blind testing? an avoided subject around here. not forbidden, just avoided. always crashes and burns.
damn, 80 pages of this nonsense, if someone prefers analog over digital or vice versa than what's the point of discussion, in my home I prefer analog, I could careless what the "science" says, its my ears, my money and my choice, why some people want to try and change that is absurd, science, blah, many say a watt is a watt, whatever you say
A blast from the past: I spent much more than was justified in trying to make digital sound as good as analog, and stopped when I bought an Ayre C-5xe seventeen years ago. At that point, I could have SACDs sound as good as LPs, and CDs nearly as good. I gave up then and stopped buying silver discs and returned to analog ( a good table, tonearm and cartridge cost less than the best digital gear, and I could include an RCM and still be ahead). I'm quite sure that for the right price one might have a transport and DAC that rival an LP now, and if so, they won't need a new stylus every few hundred hours. But all I buy now is vinyl, and I remain convinced that the best record cleaning equipment and a decent analog set-up still rivals any CD.
As for MIke's comment above: I think blind testing can prove me right. He should not be afraid of it (I know, he'll say he isn't afraid—but what is the issue? If you find something "better" in a blind test it just won, and you should be glad to be informed about it.)
As for MIke's comment above: I think blind testing can prove me right. He should not be afraid of it (I know, he'll say he isn't afraid—but what is the issue? If you find something "better" in a blind test it just won, and you should be glad to be informed about it.)
It is fascinating to me that the guy advocating for the science calls himself "God". At least AudioGod makes more sense here than MusicGod would. Perhaps some buy based on science (measurements) and others on faith (magazine best of lists), but most here judge by listening and then make their choices.
Which Audiogod is he? There seems to be many self professed audio gods right here on the internet, oh and some false prophets to boot.
FWIW, many years ago a dealer told me his perspective on this debate. At that time he thought
"Whatever the value of your turntable / arm / cartridge set up, digital can get close to the sound you have. You just have to work out what your analogue front end has cost you, then spend about twice as much on the digital front end - and accept it will be different and wont be quite as good anyway".
(Yes of course that was then this is now, technology has moved on, YMMV etc etc)
"Whatever the value of your turntable / arm / cartridge set up, digital can get close to the sound you have. You just have to work out what your analogue front end has cost you, then spend about twice as much on the digital front end - and accept it will be different and wont be quite as good anyway".
(Yes of course that was then this is now, technology has moved on, YMMV etc etc)
FWIW, many years ago a dealer told me his perspective on this debate. At that time he thought
"Whatever the value of your turntable / arm / cartridge set up, digital can get close to the sound you have. You just have to work out what your analogue front end has cost you, then spend about twice as much on the digital front end - and accept it will be different and wont be quite as good anyway".
(Yes of course that was then this is now, technology has moved on, YMMV etc etc)
Many years ago there might have been something to that argument.
In the new Monarch series, yay Godzilla’s back, the character May hauls old equipment out of junk shops, adds a dab of varnish and sells to ‘audiophile nerds’ for big bucks saying “for people who listen with their hearts not their ears”.
it made me laugh, then the fun begins…….Roarrrrrrr!
it made me laugh, then the fun begins…….Roarrrrrrr!
FWIW, many years ago a dealer told me his perspective on this debate. At that time he thought
"Whatever the value of your turntable / arm / cartridge set up, digital can get close to the sound you have. You just have to work out what your analogue front end has cost you, then spend about twice as much on the digital front end - and accept it will be different and wont be quite as good anyway".
(Yes of course that was then this is now, technology has moved on, YMMV etc etc)
This reads to me like a dealer saying work out your budget for analog and digital. He knows that when you buy both, you will upgrade both
Could be. It was a long while ago.
I always regarded it as more of a comparison of the price differential for a given quality than any statement on what was ultimately possible with digital.
Nope.Digital is indistinguishable from the original master .
The vinyl is the exact opposite
It has it's own sound
You can ask any sound/mastering engineer that were in the studio , and then heard the recorded album on a digital file.
Vinyl has it's own sound , it's added distortion and other artifacts cause it to be more "pleasant " and organic and Musical
But it's far less accurate than digital .
And since most masters are digital there's no way an vinyl from the digital master could somehow sound better than the digital master itself .
Bottom line vinyl is sort of an EQ
I am one. 200+ professional recordings with Chesky and others.Ask professional sound engineers
No audiophile knows more than the person who creates the album
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