Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[dcathro]

Who is "all of us"? An extremely flawed generalization.

You haven't been disappointed by digital?

The original promise of digital was "Perfect Sound Forever"! Is this something you experienced?

Now I don't know about you but I have had a lot of ordinary digital replay over the years.

Your right that I should not speak for everyone, but I was trying to get the point across that even for fans of digital like myself it is nothing like straight forward to get great sound.

Now amended "all" to "many"

 

[The Knife]

I would agree that digital cannot sound as good as vinyl.
Until my Horizon and tube rolling came along.
I am in heaven.
Now I don't stand up every 15 minutes to flip a record, clean, destatic, find albums, etc.
Call me lazy

I used to be like you, until I found out it is utterly boring to just sit hour after hour never getting up. The magic is in the vinyl and everything surrounding it ;-).

 

[AudioGod]

I used to be like you, until I found out it is utterly boring to just sit hour after hour never getting up. The magic is in the vinyl and everything surrounding it ;-).

I'm too fat and lazy to get up every few minutes

 

[The Knife]

I'm too fat and lazy to get up every few minutes

every two minutes you mean?

 

[Zeotrope]

I hear tape hiss on many of 1960 classical and jazz CD's. And it's part of the original recording and not a system noise artifact. For example, try the early Miles mono recordings or the Mercury Living Presence CD's. If you do not hear it on the vinyl version, I would question the accuracy of the system.

Of course if noise is on the recording, you will hear it. The flawed assumption is that all analog recordings have noise — they most certainly do not. It’s a flaw(s) in the playback system if you hear noise, especially on most modern/reissued analog albums.

I have probably the quietest digital playback chain available (perhaps only the Wadax is quieter?), and I have less noise from the phono chain. Jitter and electrical noise are noticeable with digital — but unlike analog where you can hear it on many systems, digital noise is not really noticeable until it’s gone. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t hear.

 

[hopkins]

Jitter and electrical noise are noticeable with digital — but unlike analog where you can hear it on many systems, digital noise is not really noticeable until it’s gone. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t hear.

Jitter is also "embedded" in the digital recording.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Of course if noise is on the recording, you will hear it. The flawed assumption is that all analog recordings have noise — they most certainly do not. It’s a flaw(s) in the playback system if you hear noise, especially on most modern/reissued analog albums.

I have probably the quietest digital playback chain available (perhaps only the Wadax is quieter?), and I have less noise from the phono chain. Jitter and electrical noise are noticeable with digital — but unlike analog where you can hear it on many systems, digital noise is not really noticeable until it’s gone. In other words, you don’t know what you don’t hear.

Very much so , digital noise if you are sensitive to it is very obvious ...

 

[Solypsa]

You can ask any sound/mastering engineer that were in the studio , and then heard the recorded album on a digital file.

I am sure that you are aware of the conditions presumed in this statement. As I read it:

1) Excludes most all modern multi mic'd and tracked via digital ( eg ProTool ) recordings since the engineer only can hear the constructed musical piece via the digital mix hence no real live vs digital comparison is possible. ( some real in room sound checks of the mostly isolated musicians yes ). Very rarely there may be a mix down in analog before the digital conversion in this scenario. VERY rarely.

2) Exclude all music made ' in the box' ( most edm etc. ) as it's not possible to know the sound without DAC

3) Includes acoustic instruments minimally mic'd and recorded as a group, with engineers in room with them and monitoring from the analog mic feed before printing to digital, tape etc. A great scenario. Pretty rare. Rare enough that you could easily discuss specific recording events and the details. For example @adrianywu is in such a position and did post here. He somewhat agrees with your premise, yet he is citing very tight conditions required.

 

[bonzo75]

Also everyone keep a watch out for blizzard using different user handles

 

[gleeds]

Very much so , digital noise if you are sensitive to it is very obvious ...

I recently had the pleasure of comparing among the best digital and analog playback systems in an acoustically outstanding room with end game electronics and speakers. The DAC was a Wadax Atlantis with the Atlantis Server. Analog was AJ Conti's Basis Transcendence with 12.5" SuperArm and Air Tight PC-1 Supreme. The Wadax sounded exceptional, however the basis on both test and modern pressing was altogether in another league of suspension of disbelief (thank you Ron).

Anyone hearing them side by side would IMO agree without that even the best executed digital vs. top-level analog and R2R still has discoveries to make. For the here and now the Basis system is astonishing and the best analog I have yet to hear, albeit I have not all the contenders to the throne. I enjoy both mediums and could not live as happily without either.

PS I heard the Wadax again just last week at CAF in Elliot's room and it was good enough for me to shed a few tears on an exquisitely recorded piece of choral music served up by Brandon Lauer whose taste in classical music is unbelievably good.

 

[Al M.]

Also everyone keep a watch out for blizzard using different user handles

Oh yeah, Blizzard. Good ole times.

 

[Elliot G.]

I recently had the pleasure of comparing among the best digital and analog playback systems in an acoustically outstanding room with end game electronics and speakers. The DAC was a Wadax Atlantis with the Atlantis Server. Analog was AJ Conti's Basis Transcendence with 12.5" SuperArm and Air Tight PC-1 Supreme. The Wadax sounded exceptional, however the basis on both test and modern pressing was altogether in another league of suspension of disbelief (thank you Ron).

Anyone hearing them side by side would IMO agree without that even the best executed digital vs. top-level analog and R2R still has discoveries to make. For the here and now the Basis system is astonishing and the best analog I have yet to hear, albeit I have not all the contenders to the throne. I enjoy both mediums and could not live as happily without either.

PS I heard the Wadax again just last week at CAF in Elliot's room and it was good enough for me to shed a few tears on an exquisitely recorded piece of choral music served up by Brandon Lauer whose taste in classical music is unbelievably good.

Gary , I had the same experience however this was one or two records. for me the juice is not worth the squeeze for others it may. I have not heard any analog source have the kind of consistently great sound that my Wadax has and of course the convenience is not even open for discussion. I personally dont miss the sorting , cleaning the record, cleaning to stylus, getting up, turning on the light, turning off the light, and redoing that every few minutes. Maybe i got fat since digtal has no aerobic exercise but my choice was made. I do think the Basis was amazing and my first choice in the fictional TT race. ( my fictional race, just like my fictional motorcycle and formula 1 car lol)

 

[gleeds]

Gary , I had the same experience however this was one or two records. for me the juice is not worth the squeeze for others it may. I have not heard any analog source have the kind of consistently great sound that my Wadax has and of course the convenience is not even open for discussion. I personally dont miss the sorting , cleaning the record, cleaning to stylus, getting up, turning on the light, turning off the light, and redoing that every few minutes. Maybe i got fat since digtal has no aerobic exercise but my choice was made. I do think the Basis was amazing and my first choice in the fictional TT race. ( my fictional race, just like my fictional motorcycle and formula 1 car lol)

Elliot on a Ducati tearing down Sunrise Highway - now that would be a sight

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot on a Ducati tearing down Sunrise Highway - now that would be a sight

Get your motor running
head out on the highway
looking for adventure
and whatever comes our way
Born to be wild !
Gary,
Don’t hold your breath LMAO

 

[gleeds]

Get your motor running
head out on the highway
looking for adventure
and whatever comes our way
Born to be wild !
Gary,
Don’t hold your breath LMAO

 

[thedudeabides]

You haven't been disappointed by digital?

The original promise of digital was "Perfect Sound Forever"! Is this something you experienced?

Amended "all" to "many"

First ?. No. Waited several years until I changed from A to D. Why do you repeat the initial marketing hype? Nothing in this world is perfect and most people know that.

Second ? On this forum, yes is correct. Out in the real world with folks who make an average income and do not want or need SOTA sound, the answer is no. Most folks today, in my view, stream music. Best.

 

[thedudeabides]

The flawed assumption is that all analog recordings have noise — they most certainly do not..

Hi,

Agreed. Never said that. Best.

 

[Rexp]

Gary , I had the same experience however this was one or two records. for me the juice is not worth the squeeze for others it may. I have not heard any analog source have the kind of consistently great sound that my Wadax has and of course the convenience is not even open for discussion. I personally dont miss the sorting , cleaning the record, cleaning to stylus, getting up, turning on the light, turning off the light, and redoing that every few minutes. Maybe i got fat since digtal has no aerobic exercise but my choice was made. I do think the Basis was amazing and my first choice in the fictional TT race. ( my fictional race, just like my fictional motorcycle and formula 1 car lol)

Your Wadax only has great sound with great digital masters, right? What percentage of digital masters on streaming services would you say are great?

 

[adrianywu]

audiogod presents as the reincarnation of Julian Hirsch … obviously the Pioneer amp is indisputably better than the Audio Research amp because its specifications are better. Listening tests? Who needs them. We have the measurements.

And I am not in either camp. Both “are what they are.”

This is completely fallacious. They measured the THD at 1kHz at 1W of power and use that to determine if an amplifier's technical performance is "better" than another. It was a fiction invented by the industry to deceive consumers. The kinds of measurements that do correlate with sound quality have been known since the late 1970s through research by people like Jean Hiraga. You can read one of his articles (in French) here: http://6bm8.lab.free.fr/Documentations/Revues/Audiophile/1977-1988/15/BONAMPLI/BONAMPLI.html

 

[Chop]

Yes I know this has been around for a while but its fun to... generalize what we are trying to work with on playback