Agree that most digital source’s being used today is more than good enough and is not the limiting factor ..
Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
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Just a small point - but the expression "garbage in - garbage out" means that the output of any system can only be as good as the input to that system.
It is not a reflexion on digital, analogue, etc. It could just as well refer to the briefing for an advertising campaign...
Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
Hmm, if you are talking about the ubiquitous recording of digital-source being converted to analogue the cut to vinyl … then of course. Vinyl records cut from digital masters will not sound any better than that same digital source played through a DAC directly to amplifier and speakers, probably worse because of the inherent limitations of the vinyl recording medium (surface noise, clicks and pops, changing tracking angles as the cartridge moves further to centre).
But, if you are asking if digitally mastered vinyl can match analogue mastered vinyl, then no it can’t.
The thing to consider is one is comparing an analogue signal being cut to vinyl with minimum further manipulation. However, if you take the same analogue signal and then convert that into a digital format, then back again into an analogue format, before pressing to vinyl, it adds totally unnecessary processing. The more you manipulate a recording, the more it will be degraded.
Hmm, if you are talking about the ubiquitous recording of digital-source being converted to analogue the cut to vinyl … then of course. Vinyl records cut from digital masters will not sound any better than that same digital source played through a DAC directly to amplifier and speakers, probably worse because of the inherent limitations of the vinyl recording medium (surface noise, clicks and pops, changing tracking angles as the cartridge moves further to centre).
But, if you are asking if digitally mastered vinyl can match analogue mastered vinyl, then no it can’t.
The thing to consider is one is comparing an analogue signal being cut to vinyl with minimum further manipulation. However, if you take the same analogue signal and then convert that into a digital format, then back again into an analogue format, before pressing to vinyl, it adds totally unnecessary processing. The more you manipulate a recording, the more it will be degraded.
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I agree it's very noticeable at shows. At the end of my first day at T.H.E. Show in SoCal 2024 my ears were literally hurting even though I avoided or cut short the really loud parts. But honestly, some rooms with vinyl also had problems.
In a good system at home the noise should be absent. It also depends on the DAC. My Mola Mola Tambaqui is considerably cleaner in that respect than my previous DAC. The absence of HF noise was also noted by a friend who listens to vinyl at home and who was less comfortable with my previous DAC.
Streaming (primarily used at shows as well) is also often much noisier than physical CD playback, which I listen to on my high end system (I stream on laptop and headphones where I care less).
Agee, maybe you have a bad duplex, or an old circuit breaker, or a poorly constructed power cord, or a veiling amplifier, or a preamp of low quality. There is garbage potential everywhere. Maybe you have a stereo in a living room, not in a purpose built room exclusively designed for your speakers.
Digital is not the issue. Everything else has as larger or larger impact on sonics that induce system wide gains. In reality, your entire stereo is garbage in. The investment does not matter. You can spend 2 million and its still garbage in as it does not sound like live. So use the source you enjoy that contains the media you want to listen too. That is the most important factor when deciding on digital vs vinyl. Where is the source material. I have sort of stepped away from Classical and Jazz. I'm into Pop and Rock. I have 0 album in the genera, so vinyl is of no use to me. Qobuz is overflowing with new content to me. I found this chick, Dolce. Fun female rap. That girl has some licks. Also been into some old Who. So cool they have new studio cuts that have the count in as well as some pre jam as the band warms up. You don't get that on your old records. Friends of mine who are not into audio equipment but into music share content all the time. Can't access it without digital. Digital is king of content. Nothing surpasses the depth of material you can find with a server.
Rexp, you’ve repeated this mantra over and over across multiple threads. A few months ago, you asked me for a list of well recorded/ great sounding jazz albums. I gave you a list of 50 to 100, off the top of my head, in my own collection.
These all sound pretty wonderful coming through my system. And this is a tiny example of what’s available of equally high quality recordings. I assume, if you sampled any, they sound poor in your system? If so, that would lead me to a couple of possible conclusions.
If you are continually having a problem, the logical place to look, in my opinion, and from my experience, would be various issues in your playback system. It’s not simple to get digital, particularly streaming, to sound at it’s best level.
And of course, recording quality varies widely with digital as well as analog. One of the nice things about digital, is that it’s easy to move along from the bad and find the good. For classical, for instance, I can almost always find an excellent recording through streaming.
It seems like you would be much happier, listening only to your analog. Why not just do that, instead of obsessing with your perceived shortcomings of digital?
It's hard to understand whether his issue is with the format itself (digital), or with the recording process, because he keeps posting recordings on YouTube videos that he feels are superior to "digital" - something does not compute...
I would suggest that he describe his thoughts on the subject morr extensively and clearly instead of repeatedly posting the same snippets (essentially that "digital sucks").
And all those videos all go through one of those hated delta sigma A/D converters.
Logic abounds.
Those jazz albums you recommended don't sound good, even on your system. Get yourself a turntable and some decent golden era jazz records and you'll see what you've been missing.
on my system, 3 things
- memory erase procedure
- reduce metallic count
- contact therapy
all free
albeit the digital is close to 2x the vinyl playback system cost.....
- memory erase procedure
- reduce metallic count
- contact therapy
all free
albeit the digital is close to 2x the vinyl playback system cost.....
I would not call it a ping but rather a "hash" that is sort of ever present but it is not present with all digital. I noticed it the most in the last couple of years in rooms using WADAX and when such rooms switched from digital to analog it was an "ahhhhh" moment for me. Not all rooms using digital created that effect though...most rooms with Lampizator sounded free from the hash. While I am not a fan of the sound of DCS digital, it does at least seem to be relatively hash free. I found that in the past a lot of the discrete R2R DACs also have a "hash" but it is of a different character (it just made things seems a bit coarse or dirty sounding...Rockna and Denafrips were like this) than what I am hearing with WADAX and some other higher speed sigma/delta or algorithm based players.
I will hear the Tambaqui again in my friend's system this weekend after a long time not hearing it. The last couple times I heard it there was a clear emphasis in the upper mid/lower treble that spotlit that frequency range. Perhaps it needed more break in from new. It is very clean but did not sound very natural sounding compared to products from Lampizator and Ayon.
I find it curious that are only now admitting the short comings of your previous Yggy DAC and that it has this digital "hash" that others of us knew was there but you defended for a very long time. Did enough of your friends find it unpleasant that you finally took notice?
I suppose 'hash' works as a word. I describe it as a nervousness or nervous character I hear immediately when play starts. After listening for a while I can put it out of mind. The switch to analog rooms at shows is fairly obvious though shows be shows. The analog for analog might be groove nose though that seems more a function of media condition and is avoidable with clean well pressed LPs. Vinyl quality is also a factor.
Again, the obvious point is there’s a serious problem with your playback. Sorry I wasted my time.
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