Can we actually discuss What is Best on this forum?

[Elliot G.]

Elliot I see you have not done a podcast in awhile.

doing a new one Friday today and hopefully some others next week

 

[Fedie]

Let us all remember ,there is music that is live and then there is music that is recorded.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Which one is on Memorex?

 

[microstrip]

Which one is on Memorex?

Just count the shattered glasses! Are you suggesting a new objective test for real sound?

 

[Alrainbow]

Let us all remember ,there is music that is live and then there is music that is recorded.

And neither can be fully played back

 

[KeithR]

Peter, respectfully, if you are bending this topic and narrative toward the ddk world view, it will be very polarizing. it's seems that's the universe you occupy. others view it as a valid perspective.....but not any absolute, as you infer. i'm reading your meaning, not your words. it suffocates discourse. i know i avoid that subject of discussion as it's not worth the trouble to me. i'm sure that's not how it looks to you.

soon Japanese cartridges will again be assaulted.

just say'n.

That’s the entire forum, guys.

 

[bazelio]

Perhaps I should use fewer words and be more direct.

I'll throw out an "Amen to that.". And I'm not even religious.

 

[ddk]

I never called my speakers or the Bionors the best or the most natural. The Bionors are better and the best I have heard. They may well be better than all others. I do not know. I have ideas about why and would like to understand them better. I have always contented there are different levels of natural sound and gear.
I am sorry I lack the ability to communicate more clearly. Perhaps I should use fewer words and be more direct.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and sometimes we need to visually demonstrate a concept specially in audio which is both artistic and subjective. If you recall when you visited I was in the process of setting up the 2nd showroom with the great prototype turntable I had just acquired but we had difficult acoustic issues specially from the left side I had a lot of shit going on there and the hot air from the HVAC unit behind the left side was most annoying. It was even squealing at times and you asked about the "Best" acoustic treatment for that problem and I told you art! Specially heavy art to deal with the noise so we brought out the heavy weights and hung them on the wall to deal with the left side. The trick is placement it has to go right on top it, the room is a dream now and people just love it. Just to be clear I'm declaring art as the the "Best" acoustic treatment ,in my space for those who need clarification as shown in the picture of the room below. Art is personal so go with what works for you.



david

 

[tima]

You know, I started this thread after reading the best cartridge thread that a new member started. I thought it was an interesting topic and that we would discuss the very idea of some audio products rising above the rest and perhaps even standing the test of time to remain or become examples to hold up and serve as inspiration to others.

When you find it difficult to describe the gear and only talk about the music and the listening experience, you know something is right.

A common knock on audiophiles from non-audiophiles, particularly from musicians, is that the audiophile is focused more on hardware, numbers, and sound, and much less on music. It does seem difficult for many here to talk about music, - I sense that from the lack of such talk, certainly in this thread. Thus what you say in your qoute may never happen.

The forum name (What's Best...) is a lure not an answer. Those working from a fixed routine will say you can have your best but are not allowed the best because it does not speak for us. Archetypic systems and components lack the requisite equity; assessing merit comes from a hierarchy of audio despots and is to be shunned. Truth for many comes from something called "analytically valid experience." (Don't you wonder how that is different from what Jimi talked about? I don't either.)

Perhaps 'Best' is not a way to talk about what you describe in your quote -- perhaps best is kind of an adjectival category mistake. It is pure ranking that is devoid of content. When you speak of standing the test of time and being an example, that approach may yield insight. Queen for a Day is a dead-ender.

Consider something that has fallen out of favor in the Twentieth Century (perhaps because of so much war), namely aesthetics and the idea of Beauty -- one of those things that is of ultimate value. I'm not at a point of suggesting beauty as replacement for best; but as something whose consideration may give us ways to explore talking about what you're after. Augustine asked: "whether things are beautiful because they give delight, or whether they give delight because they are beautiful." His answer was the latter.

If we go back to the 18th Century where I lived for several years, you find views that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' or 'beauty is defined by a process of judgement, it is not a feature of a thing judged beautiful'. Subjectivism.

If we work further back to the classical world, we find Beauty as an objective ideal. Plato clearly finds Beauty in the realm of the Forms, it is not about a result of observation. Aristotle finds beauty in what is observed, from characteristics of the object - not as a product of observation. Features such as symmetry, order, proportion may be characteristics of a beautiful thing -- not unlike natural sound embodying certain features. The idea of Beauty (or Goodness, or Justice) becomes meaningless as an ideal if it is simply a matter of taste. This leads some to the notion of 'disinterested' judgement absent the puree of personal feeling.

Back in the wally world of audiophiles the mundane leans heavily. As an exercise perhaps we can talk about the ideal turntable or the ideal cartridge. Not in a formless loosey goosey way but in terms of actual turntables and cartridges. What would an ideal turntable be -- answers need to reside in the real world -- for example, 'inertialess' is not an answer. To what extent does turntable X participate as an ideal turntable? Can our notion of an ideal turntable hold up over time? We cannot count on future technologies not yet invented. What does an ideal turntable bring sonically? We cannot say that it makes music that sounds like the experience I have in the concert hall -- we cannot turn reproduction into reality. Can talk of ideals substitute for talk of best?

Edit: redundancy

 

[andromedaaudio]

If we go back to the 18th Century where I lived for several years.

Now its getting exiting .
How old did you say you were?

 

[BruceD]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and sometimes we need to visually demonstrate a concept specially in audio which is both artistic and subjective. If you recall when you visited I was in the process of setting up the 2nd showroom with the great prototype turntable I had just acquired but we had difficult acoustic issues specially from the left side I had a lot of shit going on there and the hot air from the HVAC unit behind the left side was most annoying. It was even squealing at times and you asked about the "Best" acoustic treatment for that problem and I told you art! Specially heavy art to deal with the noise so we brought out the heavy weights and hung them on the wall to deal with the left side. The trick is placement it has to go right on top it, the room is a dream now and people just love it. Just to be clear I'm declaring art as the the "Best" acoustic treatment ,in my space for those who need clarification as shown in the picture of the room below. Art is personal so go with what works for you.

Agree on Art placement --I have my listening area adorned with original works--but with a proviso

NO GLASS

Good listening,

BruceD

david

 

[Gregadd]

The magnetic bearing is far and away the best turntable bearing.

 

[Argonaut]

andromedaaudio said:
Now its getting exiting .
How old did you say you were?

 

[DaveC]

Hehe, don't get any weird thoughts, please .But I know you never do .

But yes, of course I'm super sexy.

Tango talking to Al about which tt is the best.

 

[spiritofmusic]

And the rest of us are that third guy.

 

[DaveC]

The new Corvette is definitely the best car ever. Faster 0-60 than supercars 5x the price, made in the USA, better looking than any Italian car, and it can carry 2 sets of golf clubs. It also has the best color ever, the fluorescent yellow reflects the most light and is the safest. And it does all this for around $75k, a great value. I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with this, it's FACT. All the above are FACTS, darn it! IT"S THE BESTEST CAR EVER! NO BETTER CAR HAS EVER EXISTED, CAN'T YOU SEE THAT!

 

[andromedaaudio]

I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with this,

Can you put the bicycle in the back ?

 

[PeterA]

Since we have moved on from discussing audio, I saw this boat pull up last June. She came up from Largo and the owner claimed to be very proud of his new toy and told me he was inspired by the best.

 

[Gregadd]

FERRARI!

 

[DaveC]

Since we have moved on from discussing audio, I saw this boat pull up last June. She came up from Largo and the owner claimed to be very proud of his new toy and told me he was inspired by the best.

View attachment 97073

I'm a fan of Hillary too, but the best? IDK...

Can you put the bicycle in the back ?

I'm not interested in your facts, sorry!