Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

[Steve williams]

Our largest state provides a safety net for its people, perhaps bigger than other states, and yet they seem stressed and concerned about employment, survival, and illness, especially in the population centers.

I know little about the government of Norway. I presume that the officials are elected and that they represent the interests of those who elect them. If that is indeed the case, then I do think the homogeneity and population size (nature) and common principles, societal cohesion and shared core values (nurture) has everything to do with why the policies are the way they are and why the country functions as well as it does.

The much larger and more diverse population with its conflicting values and core principles is precisely why the US is less functional and faces greater challenges. Despite all of that, simply based on where migration patterns flow, the US seems to be a fairly popular immigrant destination.

We should celebrate our diversity and the incredible sense of opportunity that exists here as in few places on the planet, made possible by our form of government and our adhesion to the Constitution. Rather than wallowing in doom and gloom, we should come together and seize the opportunity that is before us. I see reason to be optimistic.

well said Peter

also profound was DaveC’s comment yesterday when he said it’s tough to understand why the two sides are so far apart on something such as this issue.

 

[NorthStar]

Just for fun, to relax ...
• https://www.lovemoney.com/galleries/amp/79106/worlds-most-and-least-polluted-countries

Don't take it for cash though because different studies from other sources will bring you to different places. But some countries and cities are common from various sources.
It's not the question of which city, which country is best, it's which ones are among the best in awareness of a clean environment for their people, and acting upon it.

 

[Al M.]

Or you can be happy with simply driving your Tesla, a token attempt to be a "green" that means nothing and is surely worse vs driving a smaller ICE car.

I am terrified about climate change, but I never got the appeal of those electric vehicles either. I drive a small ICE car, a Nissan Versa SV. My gas bill is ridiculously low. One of the most fun cars to drive I've ever had, also in terms of tearing around corners (and yes, I have driven BMWs, Audis etc. as rentals on vacation).

 

[ack]

If the USA became carbon neutral (I am not even sure what that term means today) tomorrow how much of the global warming problem would be solved if China continues its current level of fossil fuels emissions?

How do you address the country-by-country free-riding problem? Why should small countries take expensive action against global warming when their participation doesn’t move the needle, yet they enjoy the benefits of the big countries reducing their emissions?

Wow, such shallow comments. Unimpressed.

 

[Folsom]

The longer life spans in Norway could be as simple as developing a habit of Vitmain D supplementation early in life that continues into old age. But I’d also remark they they can’t even legally buy as shitty of food as the US likes to indulge in.

 

[PeterA]

If the USA became carbon neutral (I am not even sure what that term means today) tomorrow how much of the global warming problem would be solved if China continues its current level of fossil fuels emissions?

How do you address the country-by-country free-riding problem? Why should small countries take expensive action against global warming when their participation doesn’t move the needle, yet they enjoy the benefits of the big countries reducing their emissions?

Don't know if anyone could answer your first question, Ron. And I'm not sure anyone would want to start a discussion about your next two questions. Perhaps one approach is to simply argue that we are all in this together, despite such broad disagreement.

 

[PeterA]

The longer life spans in Norway could be as simple as developing a habit of Vitmain D supplementation early in life that continues into old age. But I’d also remark they they can’t even legally buy as shitty of food as the US likes to indulge in.

Could be. I suspect that if the gene pool were more diverse, life expectancy would change.

 

[assessor43]

I always see Bill Gates and Warren Buffet eating fast foods and coke? Do they know something I do not? lol. Oh I forgot Warren owns coke and dairy queen. lol

 

[Empirical Audio]

If the USA became carbon neutral (I am not even sure what that term means today) tomorrow how much of the global warming problem would be solved if China continues its current level of fossil fuels emissions?

To give you an idea, look at what happened one week after 9/11. Because all air travel in the US was grounded, NOAA was able to measure a drop in the temperature of the entire planet.

How do you address the country-by-country free-riding problem? Why should small countries take expensive action against global warming when their participation doesn’t move the needle, yet they enjoy the benefits of the big countries reducing their emissions?

You address it by US international leadership. The right guy in the Whitehouse will make all the difference. We have control over much of the world economy through the US dollar and the US banking system. We can do sanctions. We can do investment. There are a lot of levers.

This is like asking "Why should my taxes pay for the homeless getting food stamps?" The answer is obvious. It improves everyone's lives and eventually they won't be homeless and they will be paying taxes and contributing to the economy thanks to those food stamps.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Our largest state provides a safety net for its people, perhaps bigger than other states, and yet they seem stressed and concerned about employment, survival, and illness, especially in the population centers.

It' no surprise when the US heathcare costs twice what it does in other developed countries and it does not follow you from one job to another. It's no surprise with the demise of the strong union and bargaining. It's no surprise when the housing alternatives are all unaffordable by the masses.

I know little about the government of Norway. I presume that the officials are elected and that they represent the interests of those who elect them. If that is indeed the case, then I do think the homogeneity and population size (nature) and common principles, societal cohesion and shared core values (nurture) has everything to do with why the policies are the way they are and why the country functions as well as it does.

They have a more uniform education system, not funded by locality. They have a uniform health care system, not for profit or funded by locality. They have a retraining system for jobs that are lost. These take away all of the stressors associated with uncertainty of survival and prosperity.

The much larger and more diverse population with its conflicting values and core principles is precisely why the US is less functional and faces greater challenges. Despite all of that, simply based on where migration patterns flow, the US seems to be a fairly popular immigrant destination.

It is and it's because we used to have an uncorrupt government and lots of opportunity for employment and a better life. We still have lots of opportunity for employment in farming and hospitality industries. The cost of living is way too high for most immigrants however.

We should celebrate our diversity and the incredible sense of opportunity that exists here as in few places on the planet, made possible by our form of government and our adhesion to the Constitution.

Sounds good in theory. We will se how this plays out.

Rather than wallowing in doom and gloom, we should come together and seize the opportunity that is before us. I see reason to be optimistic.

I am much more optimistic this week.

 

[Empirical Audio]

I am terrified about climate change, but I never got the appeal of those electric vehicles either. I drive a small ICE car, a Nissan Versa SV. My gas bill is ridiculously low. One of the most fun cars to drive I've ever had, also in terms of tearing around corners (and yes, I have driven BMWs, Audis etc. as rentals on vacation).

Just test drive a Tesla and you will get it. Never have to look at a gas station again, never have to stop for gas or get in a line. Don't care about gas prices. Price of a new Model 3 is $39K. Average price of a car sold in the US - $37.5K.

 

[Empirical Audio]

The longer life spans in Norway could be as simple as developing a habit of Vitmain D supplementation early in life that continues into old age. But I’d also remark they they can’t even legally buy as shitty of food as the US likes to indulge in.

They don't seem to be particularly into exercise, only jumping into ice water.

 

[NorthStar]

By the way, I just got my 3rd/4th 503 Error message today...unusual.
_____

What I really like about electric cars is how quiet they are. ...And they go fast ... fun fast.
Good for cutting down on polluting noise, good for music listening, good for peace, good for high performance. Audiophiles they should all drive high performance electric vehicles...IMO.

 

[Al M.]

Just test drive a Tesla and you will get it. Never have to look at a gas station again, never have to stop for gas or get in a line. Don't care about gas prices. Price of a new Model 3 is $39K. Average price of a car sold in the US - $37.5K.

$ 39K? Give me a break. I got my then one year old Versa SV for $ 12.3K. And what about the environmental impact of the car batteries, making them and once they are shot? And how can I be sure the electricity that fuels them comes from clean power plants?

See also, for example:

How eco-friendly are electric cars?

Will Your Electric Car Save the World or Wreck It?

 

[NorthStar]

Overall: ? https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...c-vehicles-really-better-for-the-environment/

Now: • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car

• https://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-electric-car-batteries-be-recycled.htm

 

[NorthStar]

There are zillion links on the pros and cons of EV vs ICE ...
• https://www.ergon.com.au/network/smarter-energy/electric-vehicles/benefits-of-electric-vehicles

Overall EV is better if built and used smartly, for the environment, for the people living in it.
One of my neighbors drive a Leaf. ...Funny name for a car. Few drive Teslas, higher models but also for higher money...they can afford it...no problemo.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Just test drive a Tesla and you will get it. Never have to look at a gas station again, never have to stop for gas or get in a line. Don't care about gas prices. Price of a new Model 3 is $39K. Average price of a car sold in the US - $37.5K.

your compare is misleading.

$37.5 is the average market transaction costs exclusive of tax and license.

average market transaction costs for a Model 3 is more like $48k exclusive of tax and license.....so 30% more than average.

if you want to compare the average list price of every base model vehicle, to the base Tesla Model 3, that is a whole separate calculation. and the actual transaction costs of those base models is another lower number. likely more than a 33% difference.

yes; you can buy a Model 3 for $39k; but there are millions of cars at 60% of that price. and the majority of Model 3 buyers pay much more than that.

 

[Empirical Audio]

$ 39K? Give me a break. I got my then one year old Versa SV for $ 12.3K. And what about the environmental impact of the car batteries, making them and once they are shot?

Lithium is not like lead. Not a big pollution issue. There are probably recycling options too. Lithium is used for drugs. The biggest problem will be lithium mines and supply of lithium and other rare earth metals needed for the magnets in the motors. Before that becomes a big problem, there are a myriad of other battery technologies that are under development that last longer, hold more charge and are not toxic in any way. Technology development will take care of this.

If you can't afford $39K, then get a demo or used one.

And how can I be sure the electricity that fuels them comes from clean power plants?

You have to start somewhere. To begin with, the equivalent mileage you will get is upwards of 100 miles/gallon, so this will use less power and save you money. Further, if you put solar collectors on your roof, this takes care of the local charging. Eventually, in 5 years or so we hope, the power grid will be mostly renewable.

 

[Empirical Audio]

your compare is misleading.

$37.5 is the average market transaction costs exclusive of tax and license.

average market transaction costs for a Model 3 is more like $48k exclusive of tax and license.....so 30% more than average.

if you want to compare the average list price of every base model vehicle, to the base Tesla Model 3, that is a whole separate calculation. and the actual transaction costs of those base models is another lower number. likely more than a 33% difference.

yes; you can buy a Model 3 for $39k; but there are millions of cars at 60% of that price. and the majority of Model 3 buyers pay much more than that.

Just because most Tesla buyers add lots of options means nothing. The base car is amazing at $39K.

 

[Empirical Audio]

How eco-friendly are electric cars?

Will Your Electric Car Save the World or Wreck It?

Sounds a lot like big oil propaganda. The analysis assumes that all power comes from coal plants. Wrong assumption.