Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

I’m somewhere in the middle on this... somewhere a little more towards expecting a potential ‘doom’ for some things but certainly not seeing our species extinction as the only possibility. But we do have a lot to do to in any way better ensure that.

Cheap private transport is likely doomed as a scenario.

Affordable methane intensive foods are also equally unlikely to be available going forwards.

Liveable cities are still very much a potential though where the coastline will be is clearly the issue... even replacing the loss of riparian communities in a global coastal inundation is a challenge itself but the sum loss of the embodied energy of the existing ‘at risk’ city infrastructure across the planet will be a giant blow.

The change itself to move towards a post carbon future is going to actually take a crazy amount of carbon to create. If economies move into recession then the funds to pay for the change we are going to need to create just won’t be there.

Expecting to maintain current population levels has another large question mark hanging over it.

I believe that the loss of affordable private transport (be it ICE or EV) might not seem like the end of everything or even the most painful element of all the change that may likely be required of us to create a survivable ecology for the future and also find a way to help maintain our species on this planet.

I'm usually a really optimistic person, but after the recent political shifts to the right worldwide and the effect of the Syrian and African refugees on Europe, I think we are in store for a century of not enough action, civil unrest and wars due to Climate Change. Already, many refugees coming to the US from El Salvador and Guatemala are coming here because their crops get too little rain to make them viable. This is a documented fact.

The climate refugees will be a more pressing issue than the weather impacts in the near-term. I don't care how tall your walls are, if people are starving, they will come. These are national security issues and this is why the Pentagon is very concerned about Climate Change. Countries will invade other countries just because they can no longer get water or grow food.
 
Just one quick mention: Since Steve started this thread and I research EV vs ICE, my Google suggestions are filled with electric cars everyday with roughly five or more brand new articles on electric cars. It's a big movement everywhere, a good move. Batteries will last a lifetime, they will become safer and safer with solid encasing, and providing longer mileage...hundreds of miles, more than gas. Charging stations will replace gas stations and they'll be everywhere environment friendly with nice restaurants nearby, rivers running between mountains, exotic forests and plants, toilet facilities, parks, promenades, viewpoints, kids relaxation spots, fresh air.
 
I was thinking about these articles that say that gas cars and electrics have about the same CO2 impact given the current power system.

The thing that is never brought up in the articles that have been posted here is the actual price of gasoline and diesel, which is more like $7-8/gallon, once you factor in the gas and oil subsidies, the cost of our military defending other oil generating countries and corn-ethanol subsidies. Combine this with the fact that the average mileage of an electric is ~75-90 miles/gallon equivalent (average electric KWH cost) and the average mileage/gallon of an ICE car is 25 miles/gallon and I think it is an obvious win.

The articles posted here state that the CO2 emissions may be close, but after you add in these other factors I think the electric is a big win, lower CO2 emissions. Once everything is electric, you don't need these subsidies or to defend other rogue countries like Saudi Arabia. These changes take longer, but not nearly as long as building new power plants. Subsidies could be removed overnight and troops can be pulled out in months.
 
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Steve, earlier I've read this short article with pictures of new Tesla pickup trucks ... very nice ...
https://insideevs.com/reviews/364925/tesla-pickup-truck-price-specs-more/

One of them ... you'll like what you see ... the assortment ...
tesla-truck-render.jpg
 
Some awesome looking Tesla pickup trucks from that link above ^

* Folsom, you act like a child, I'm going to buy you a year subscription to Instagram and Twitter. :D Get a grip, spin a record, take a walk, ... have a fart and keep it to yourself. :D
_____

When Steve first mentioned "Fart" noise from Tesla cars I was sure he was joking; he wasn't.
That was from an app for fun, for real fun.
Now this ... and for serious:
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/incoming-u-s-regulations-mean-teslas-could-fart-at-you
_____

Compared to this one which comes already with the sound incorporated ... (ICE Corvette C8.R) ...
Sounds like an F1 car ...
https://www.motor1.com/news/375287/chevy-corvette-c8r-engine-sound/
 
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Four days ago I posted a picture of the upcoming electric Harley-Davidson LiveWire motorcycle ...
90


And I was asking if Tesla would come up with their own ...
https://www.rideapart.com/articles/375294/need-tesla-motorcycle/
It's just a picture ... I much prefer Harley-Davidson LiveWire style. But Elon Musk mentioned before that electric motorcycles weren't on Tesla's compass.
 
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I'm usually a really optimistic person, but after the recent political shifts to the right worldwide and the effect of the Syrian and African refugees on Europe, I think we are in store for a century of not enough action, civil unrest and wars due to Climate Change. Already, many refugees coming to the US from El Salvador and Guatemala are coming here because their crops get too little rain to make them viable. This is a documented fact.

The climate refugees will be a more pressing issue than the weather impacts in the near-term. I don't care how tall your walls are, if people are starving, they will come. These are national security issues and this is why the Pentagon is very concerned about Climate Change. Countries will invade other countries just because they can no longer get water or grow food.

Deep breath, long response, apologies in advance. I completely get your concerns and we will need to maintain some reserves of optimism to sustain us.

One of the problems perhaps is that a looming horizon of all huge challenging constraints can become overwhelming if people panic because we just don’t feel like we know how to solve all of problems straight away and if we are continuously told that we have no future.

We need a very responsive pattern of ongoing change but we will actually be at our most vulnerable if people now just give up hope at the very start.

Desperate people are often dangerous people and not always rational let alone reasonable. People without hope sometimes become even more wasteful. Only seeing doom is perhaps the very beginning of the end for all of us and if fear and anxiety take over the moderating constraints of civilisation tend to come off. That sense of panic is becoming very visible across the planet.

We need to see a way forwards without necessarily first having all the solutions. A sense of resilience and commitment to help drive the required unfolding changes over the next century comes from us having a sense of a bearable future that can be and has to be worked towards.

We can’t afford complacency but equally we can’t afford arbitrarily proceeding with a further lack of precautionary principle as well. Poor long term planning is what got us here so we need to keep our heads clear and not just create a lip service to solutions and quick fixes that just continue the problem. We actually need to transition to a new phase of activity from our last 2500 year developmental phase of continued and accelerated linear growth.

I have been building climate change presentations for many years and just sticking with the current science the scenarios are very depressing and some (much) of it quite scary. Little good is added by us panicking and getting caught up in the noise of the debate of the extremes and potential inefficiencies and additional lack of effective action caused by everyone taking forever more entrenched positions and pursuing even further unnecessary conflict.

We do need collaboration and a minimisation of people using unscientific facts or a lack of absolute transparency to hijack understanding just to WIN their particular perspective in the argument or to act out their panic no matter where their perspectives lie.

We need have some openness about the positive as well as negative potentials and most of all I believe we need to hang together as a species or we will certainly hang together one way or another in the end.

The competitive model doesn’t work any more because we have hit the limits (and are now exceeding) of only having one earth. What we are now dealing with comes out of an unrestrained drive for growth and expansion beyond our now emerging understanding of the limits of the planet. Our contribution in this is accelerated resource usage and correlated green house gas emissions from actions driven in the name of continuous growth and competitive dominance.

The biocapacity of the planet (sum total of renewables produced by the earth) and the ecological survivability of the biofeedback capacities of climate in correlation to green house gas concentrations are limits that we now must learn to work with.

Conflict is inefficient and collaboration is perhaps the balance we need to work together to set limits and solve problems to issues that aren’t bound by borders. Panic, noise and growing aggression and conflict are the added flames and heat that we just can’t afford anymore.

We do need to understand what is a survivable rate of change and how not to create a worse scenario by panicking or destroying all sense of hope. There will be casualties and we need to choose our constraints and I’m suggesting if it’s a choice between survival and private transport that might seem to be an easier choice than many of the others we will need to choose between.

Carbon accounting is the only way to genuinely evaluate the whole of life resource issues of any product or goods or service. That is just science. So much energy is taken up in debating the issues and still perhaps us not seeing the forest for the disappearing trees. But I’d humbly suggest however doom is an expectation bias that none of us can ever really afford. We need to keep a good measure of optimism and hope going forwards.
 
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We need bright leaders who respect science @ the service of a healthier planet.
We need bright people to pick those bright leaders.
We're almost there ... couple million more years or less.
 
Four days ago I posted a picture of the upcoming electric Harley-Davidson LiveWire motorcycle ...
90


And I was asking if Tesla would come up with their own ...
https://www.rideapart.com/articles/375294/need-tesla-motorcycle/
It's just a picture ... I much prefer Harley-Davidson LiveWire style. But Elon Musk mentioned before that electric motorcycles weren't on Tesla's compass.

On Nightly Business Report they just said that these are not selling very well, but neither are the regulator Harleys.
 
I have been building climate change presentations for many years and just sticking with the current science the scenarios are very depressing and some (much) of it quite scary. Little good is added by us panicking and getting caught up in the noise of the debate of the extremes and potential inefficiencies and additional lack of effective action caused by everyone taking forever more entrenched positions and pursuing even further unnecessary conflict.

It's not panic that I'm looking for, it's individual action, grass-roots action. The Climate change movements are great, but mostly focus on motivating lawmakers to instigate change. People can have a significant impact, and much sooner than converting power plants. After all, in the US, vehicles are the largest emitters.
 
We need bright leaders who respect science @ the service of a healthier planet.
We need bright people to pick those bright leaders.

Good luck with that. There should be a test you have to pass like a drivers test in order to be able to vote. That would help solve it.
 
It's not panic that I'm looking for, it's individual action, grass-roots action. The Climate change movements are great, but mostly focus on motivating lawmakers to instigate change. People can have a significant impact, and much sooner than converting power plants. After all, in the US, vehicles are the largest emitters.


I disagree. This has been caused on a species level and thus it'll need to be solved on a species level. I'd go so far as to say the natural laws of cause and effect demand it, and there is literally no other way.

I don't think there is much you can do besides not be blatantly wasteful unless you want to live like a caveman, and then you're just one in billions. I agree individual action is worth some concern, but your somewhat misguided ideas about EVs vs ICE is pretty much a distraction and a waste of energy, and really isn't the issue.

What would be effective is science-based policy on energy and food production by our national and international leadership. But I think, like a drug addict, that we may not be able to shift priorities in time to avoid experiencing some really horrible effects. If the world's armed forces were simply to stand down, it would be a massive reduction in carbon emissions worth probably several times what it would be if every vehicle in the USA were to stop running. Food needs to be produced and consumed locally for the most part... I still want my coffee and mangos but the average piece of food travels over 1000 miles. This is not ideal. We need to be looking at changes like this, changes that'll actually make a difference.
 
My guess Steve is you don't think most (any?) Trump or Brexit voters would pass this test?
 
Have you guys read the Extinction Rebellion prospectus? Zero Carbon by 2025 is just the headline. Their aim is nothing less than eliminating all growth in economies, literally aiming for us to re enter the Stone Age.

I gave up End Time proclamations when I turned my back on organised religion 4 decades ago. I'm not exactly gonna embrace St. Greta in a hurry.

And I remain amazed how many doom merchants still choose to have multiple kids, a greater drain on future resources I can't think of.

If I really felt the world was gonna evaporate by 2030 at the latest, would I want to have kids to witness this?
 
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My guess Steve is you don't think most (any?) Trump or Brexit voters would pass this test?

That would be a good outcome. 99% of the voters that are questioned on the street are ignorant. They don't even know the name of the Vice President. They have no idea of the ideology that is set forth in our constitution. If they are uninformed and ignorant, they are not good citizens or patriots IMO. Today I am feeling really bad for those Kurds and saddened that other countries will be less likely to help the US in times of war.
 
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The Kurds have been let down for way longer than Trump on this occasion.
 
The Kurds have been let down for way longer than Trump on this occasion.

Yes, but we owe them for helping us eliminate the ISIS caliphate and continuing to fight ISIS and the Assad regime.

This sends a really bad message to the rest of the world. The US cannot be trusted. Our word means nothing.
 
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