Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

[Ron Resnick]

First you said he is getting competition and then you insinuated that the stock was overpriced. Just my impression of the post. My bad.

Steve is correct (that I think the stock price of Tesla should be lower).

The fact that I think Elon Musk is an amazing technological visionary and that Tesla is an amazing first-mover company, has nothing whatsoever to do with my current investment opinion on the stock of Tesla.

The man is completely separate from the issue of the current valuation of the stock, and the company’s history is completely separate from the issue of the current valuation of the stock.

I just see a lot of attractive and competitive EV cars from highly-regarded European brands coming to the market very soon.

Unless someone just likes the idea of supporting a small, entrepreneurial American company, I don’t know why in six months anyone would prefer a Tesla over an electric Audi, an electric BMW, an electric Porsche or an electric Mercedes.

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve is correct (that I think the stock price of Tesla should be lower).

The fact that I think Elon Musk is an amazing technological visionary and that Tesla is an amazing first-mover company, has nothing whatsoever to do with my current investment opinion on the stock of Tesla.

The man is completely separate from the issue of the current valuation of the stock, and the company’s history is completely separate from the issue of the current valuation of the stock.

I just see a lot of attractive and competitive EV cars from highly-regarded European brands coming to the market very soon.

Unless someone just likes the idea of supporting a small, entrepreneurial American company, I don’t know why in six months anyone would prefer a Tesla over an electric Audi, an electric BMW, an electric Porsche or an electric Mercedes.

I think the answer is easy Ron
1. Tesla’s battery has greater range than all the others
2 the price of the others is much higher than Tesla
3. The others lack the infrastructure for cross country charging
4 the tax credits IIRC disappear end of this year

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the answer is easy Ron
1. Tesla’s battery has greater range than all the others
2 the price of the others is much higher than Tesla
3. The others lack the infrastructure for cross country charging
4 the tax credits IIRC disappear end of this year

Does this mean you are buying the stock here at $337?

PS: I think the first three points are temporary advantages due to Tesla’s early entrance into the business.

 

[Steve Williams]

That’s speculation and anticipation on your part. Tesla has years of R and D under its belt.
as for the stock I’m in at a whole lot less than current valuations. I

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . as for the stock I’m in at a whole lot less than current valuations. I

Then you are doing a lot better with it than I am!

 

[DaveC]

That’s speculation and anticipation on your part. Tesla has years of R and D under its belt.
as for the stock I’m in at a whole lot less than current valuations. I

Tesla tech is leading the field and they will improve quality of manufacturing and service over time, which is the only issues they seem to have. The supercharger network is a massive advantage over the others too.

I've driven a Model 3 Performance and it's a very nice car, if Tesla can deliver quality I think they will succeed long term. Another of my friends recently picked up a Model S dual motor, but w/o ludicrous... it's also a really nice car and ludicrous mode is not needed at all, it's plenty fast.

 

[Joe Whip]

We are stockholders too and are way up. Looking forward to attending the shareholders meeting. Wait until the battery and drivetrain day in Feb or March to see how far Tesla really is ahead of the traditional auto makers.

 

[DaveC]

I think one risk with Tesla stock is the probability another company will come up with significantly better batteries, something like that aluminum battery with 1000+ mile range that can be exchanged at supermarkets or at gas stations like propane tanks would allow them to leapfrog Tesla very quickly.

IMO, it's not if, but when. I have a feeling something like this could happen sooner rather than later.

 

[NorthStar]

Elon Musk Taunts Tesla Short David Einhorn and Makes Him Smart Offer he Can't Refuse

? https://insideevs.com/news/381209/2020-tesla-model-3-sr-most-efficient/

 

[DaveC]

Wow, I thought recycling lithium batteries was a given but apparently not, this is a major problem imo. More evidence that Li batteries are not a great solution.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/6/20951807/electric-vehicles-battery-recycling

 

[Al M.]

Wow, I thought recycling lithium batteries was a given but apparently not, this is a major problem imo. More evidence that Li batteries are not a great solution.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/6/20951807/electric-vehicles-battery-recycling

Yikes. Thanks for the link. Another reason for me to stay away from all this until technology matures.

 

[NorthStar]

There is no alarm to panic; those articles are sponsored by gas companies.

Here's another older one ...
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/billro...riesand-how-long-they-will-last/#7ed35b0521d9

And another ...
• https://www.fortum.com/products-and...ycling/lithium-ion-battery-recycling-solution

See, no panic...only the oil industry is in a state of panic...nobody else but them.
EV is here so stay and grow. And batteries keep getting better and better, and recycling programs are in full force...with intelligent and best solutions for our populations and their environments...best beneficial use with health being number one priority....physical and mental.
They are constantly working on that and improving till it hits 100% full renewable energy (full circle recyclement). We are in the vicinity of 80% today, and it shouldn't be long till 200% ... another month or two or less or few more years ...

I wouldn't sweat the small stuff, best to keep an eye open on what smart's and who's not.
And that, intelligent people are well aware of. I'm not worry about the contractors of contrasts and contests.

 

[Al M.]

There is no alarm to panic; those articles are sponsored by gas companies.

Hehe, yeah, forgot . Of course, if you actually follow the source...

 

[DaveC]

There is no alarm to panic; those articles are sponsored by gas companies.

If you're going to make those claims you need proof. Otherwise you're just another potential source of misinformation.

Here's the source of the verge article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...urce=commission_junction&utm_medium=affiliate

Here's the "About Us" page:

https://www.nature.com/nature-research/about


Please tell us how this is a misinformation site run by big oil companies?

 

[DonH50]

I don't read Nature but do get lots of EE-oriented magazines and email newsletters. Searching Design News, EE Times, Electronic Design News, etc. yields lots of hits. I have yet to see one sponsored by an oil company, never even crossed my mind. Most are university articles (maybe they are all underwritten by big oil, not sure how far to carry the conspiracy theories). I have no doubt the Li-ion battery disposal and recycling process will evolve but right now battery disposal is a mess let alone finding a place to recycle them. At least across most of the country, where neither recycling centers nor adequate disposal centers exist. The battery packs are toxic with lots of things beyond just the batteries themselves inside. A year or two ago a local recycling center was shut down for months when a shipment of batteries self-destructed; soil and water contamination is still a concern. I wish the gov't would subsidize the auto industry less and help out with battery recovery and recycling if they are going to take my money and throw it someplace.

 

[NorthStar]

I'm still reading ...
• https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...urce=commission_junction&utm_medium=affiliate

* If Elon Musk is successful in the conquest of Mars, or another planet, perhaps SpaceX can expand into trucking Earth's waste and dump it into black holes?

What about fossil fuel (black oil) waste in smoke and environment spills (oceans, lands, pipeline's ruptures, explosions @ sea, oil cargos attacked, missiles, drones, etc.).
Is oil better than lithium? Can we run our cell phones with gas and feel healthier.

I'm only kidding of course. That Nature article is interesting ... I'm still reading,
If something comes up worth mentioning I'll get on it. I want to know more ...

 

[DonH50]

Countering with "but it's not as bad as XYZ" is not an answer... And oil recycling has been in place for ages. For that matter, lead-acid battery recycling has been around a long time and is working very well. It is often mentioned as the sort of process Li-ion and newer battery technologies need to implement. How about being able to drop your old batteries at any EV dealer? Whatever happens is going to cost, natch.

Edit: Like Bob, I just read (skim, really) the articles. I claim no expertise with respect to battery chemistry, disposal, recycling, and all that jazz. Not my field. EVs in general are a hot topic so there are lots of articles that fly by (one on a new motor last week looks very interesting).

 

[DaveC]

All the energy required to deal with battery recycling and/or disposal needs to be figured into the EROEI calculations for EVs. It's possible that it'll be like nuclear fuel, the containment of which is an ongoing issue and reduces the EROEI of nuclear power, but probably for a lot less time or a one-time cost of processing the battery packs. The fact this is up in the air is disappointing.

The environmental impacts of EV manufacturing needs to be taken into account, if EVs don't save us in carbon emissions vs ICE they sure are a much larger overall environmental impact to manufacture and dispose of...

 

[NorthStar]

Every single day I'm reading new articles about electric vehicles and Tesla. I'm sure everyone else have seen and read a couple. They mainly keep repeating themselves unless something truly new and worth it.

I'm still reading that Nature article because I want to know more and learn more.
And I sure agree that our leaders have a responsibility to encourage what's best for the people they represent...all of us.

 

[NorthStar]

Two of the latest interesting articles ...

? https://www.treehugger.com/cars/no-wonder-so-many-people-are-still-trying-kill-electric-car.html

? https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-short-david-einhorn-elon-musk-letter-response/