Cat jl5

[bonzo75]

Many years ago, a good a'phile friend of mine was getting excellent sound with a CAT preamp and a Symphonic line amp. At the time, he was driving a fairly inefficient pair of Hales speakers and in a large room.
I believe Ken and Klaus well understand the concept of synergy with electronics.

What did you think of the power amp?

 

[DaveyF]

What did you think of the power amp?

At the time, I thought the amp was a real bargain and a tremendous performer. I was tempted to buy it, but acquired my Rowland instead. The Rowland 8 was a much more impressive amp, as it should have been for the price difference.

 

[bonzo75]

At the time, I thought the amp was a real bargain and a tremendous performer. I was tempted to buy it, but acquired my Rowland instead. The Rowland 8 was a much more impressive amp, as it should have been for the price difference.

Any recollection if it was the Kraft or the lower models - RG series)?

 

[DaveyF]

Any recollection if it was the Kraft or the lower models - RG series)?

Fairly certain it was a Kraft 250...but since it has been many years since I heard it, my memory may be wrong. Nonetheless, it made a great impression on me at the time...enough so that I thought it was an incredible deal and one that sorely tempted me.
The same friend ended up replacing it with a CODA amp..I think it was a model 100, which in some ways was slightly better, but i think it was more expensive also.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, are you questioning why mismatched equipment does not sound good?

Davey,

Perhaps we are impliedly assigning two different, specific meanings to the general word "mismatched." In my comment above I used "mismatch" in the specific sense of there being some threshold technical -- electrical or impedance or grounding -- reason why components might not work well together.

If there is no objective, technical reason for a mismatch between two components, when audiophiles disagree subjectively about whether two components sound good together I think of that merely as difference sonic priorities and preferences, not an actual component "mismatch" in the more specific sense in which I wrote above. But that is simply my jargon.

Of course "mismatch" can well be used to describe both a technical mismatch as well as a subjective mismatch.

 

[DaveyF]

Davey,

Perhaps we are impliedly assigning two different, specific meanings to the general word "mismatched." In my comment above I used "mismatch" in the specific sense of there being some threshold technical -- electrical or impedance or grounding -- reason why components might not work well together.

If there is no objective, technical reason for a mismatch between two components, when audiophiles disagree subjectively about whether two components sound good together I think of that merely as difference sonic priorities and preferences, not an actual component "mismatch" in the more specific sense in which I wrote above. But that is simply my jargon.

Of course "mismatch" can well be used to describe both a technical mismatch as well as a subjective mismatch.

Ron, there are numerous examples on the web wherein a listener has thrown together various pieces of gear and experienced a 'mismatch' leading to a faulty impression of the gear in question and subsequent disappointment in their selection.
In this hobby, it is only too easy to assemble gear that really has no right being paired together. I suspect ( strongly) that we have all been guilty of this at some point in the past ( and some of us will continue to make this very same mistake!). Even dealer's and other 'supposedly' knowledgable representatives have given poor advice in this regard. One could even ask how many 'reviewers' have also gone down this mistaken path??
Like Ken says above, I don't think Ian has really heard his CAT amps until he matches them up to a CAT preamp.

 

[chelseadave]

Need to ask. I live in England how do I go about ordering CAT amp?

 

[bonzo75]

Need to ask. I live in England how do I go about ordering CAT amp?

Hey Dave, Martin at audio refetence used to deal with them

 

[DaveyF]

Need to ask. I live in England how do I go about ordering CAT amp?

Unfortunately, Ken Stevens doesn't seem to believe in marketing. Therefore, acquiring his gear and worse, hearing his gear, is not easy.
I would suggest contacting him directly at the factory.

 

[ashandger]

Need to ask. I live in England how do I go about ordering CAT amp?

Not sure if this will help, but there is also a great CAT distributor in Germany. Legend preamp with Black Path caps was also reviewed and highly rated by a German mag...review was in German only.

 

[chelseadave]

Thanks Guys will try all three.

 

[bonzo75]

Not sure if this will help, but there is also a great CAT distributor in Germany. Legend preamp with Black Path caps was also reviewed and highly rated by a German mag...review was in German only.

Is this by audio mag?

 

[jeff1225]

Ron, there are numerous examples on the web wherein a listener has thrown together various pieces of gear and experienced a 'mismatch' leading to a faulty impression of the gear in question and subsequent disappointment in their selection.
In this hobby, it is only too easy to assemble gear that really has no right being paired together. I suspect ( strongly) that we have all been guilty of this at some point in the past ( and some of us will continue to make this very same mistake!). Even dealer's and other 'supposedly' knowledgable representatives have given poor advice in this regard. One could even ask how many 'reviewers' have also gone down this mistaken path??
Like Ken says above, I don't think Ian has really heard his CAT amps until he matches them up to a CAT preamp.

Well said. In this world of few audio dealers where you can't listen to a lot of gear, it's better to stick with just one company for amp and preamp.

 

[tedtag]

Great thread and thought I'd chime in. I recently bought a Cat Legend Black Path with a pair of JL7's and have about 150 hours on them. All I listen to is vinyl and really appreciate the fantastic built in phono stage in the Legend. These were purchased for a second system that I'm going to set up in a dedicated room being built now. (thanks to Ron and Steve for your great descriptions of room construction! I read every word in those threads and implemented many of the ideas and techniques you so generously described)

It was tough to choose speakers and impossible to compare the sound of different systems because of all the variables involved. I traveled to private homes and dealers in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Florida, and attended several shows to pick out gear. When I heard the Cat gear at Axpona 2016 with the Martens and the Magicos, that was it for the electronics. I bought the Cat gear on the spot. For now I've settled on a pair of Vivid Giya G1's that should be here in about a month, almost the exact time my room will be finished. I picked the Giya's because I've primarily listened to planar speakers and they just sounded so coherent, fast, and natural that they reminded me of planars; but with a ton of gorgeous bass! We'll see when they get here, and I'll report back. I'd like to try dynamic speakers for something different, and if the Giya's don't do it for me, I'll try something else; or get a pair of 20.7i's or Sound Labs. In the mean time I've been pairing the Cat gear with Maggie 3.7i's. And to me....... its a match made in heaven! Here is how I described it in another post on a different forum:

"Maggie's with CAT gear...... Starting today I have a box of Kleenex next to my listening seat.

As I mentioned I've got a pair of Maggie 3.7i's with Mye stands, meticulously set up and have used some really great gear with outstanding results. Preamps have been Gat1, Gat2, Triode TRX2, Modwright (all upgrades). Amps have been Carver 305's (a little tube rolling), CJ Premier 8's (kt120/teflon upgrades), and Nuprime R20's; all over 300 watts per channel. Every combination has sounded great and the Gat2 is a tremendous sounding piece of gear. My favorite combination is the Gat2 with the Carvers. I've also got a pair of REL G2 subs right behind the Maggies that I've obsessively dialed in at a cross over of between 37-39 Hz and a volume setting of between 7-10 depending on the gear upstream.

However; I was so blown away by the Cat gear at Axpona that I ordered a brand new Cat Legend preamp with an amazing phono section and a pair of Cat JL7's with KT150's. They arrived last week and I immediately put them in my Maggie system. They have now had a little time to settle in with about 100 hours of play time. I bought the Cats for a second system I'm building in a new dedicated listening room over a 2 car garage that's being constructed as we speak. That new room should be ready in a few weeks, but in the mean time I'm running the Cat gear with the 3.7i's. One more point to consider is that I'm a vinyl guy, and very obsessive about dialing in my TT. The cartridge I'm using in a VPI Classic 3 with 3D arm is a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum (Koetsu folks will get this). That might seem like overkill for a $6k pair of speakers but who cares!

I'm careful about using exaggerated explicative type words and will try my best to keep these comments in relatively rational terms. But holy ****! My complete emotional melt down happened last night while listening to the most unsuspecting piece of music I could imagine. That being some rock and roll from Dave Mason's masterful debut solo album "Alone Together". Specifically the last cut on side #2; "Look at You Look at Me". The kick drum felt like it was pounding me in the chest, there was a wall of music several feet on either side of each speaker, and then at 1 point Dave shouts out a big Whoooo! That came from some distant back left corner of the soundstage and I literally jumped in my seat. Finally that amazing guitar solo at the end just ripped my heart out and I sat there emotionally drained, sobbing like a baby.

All I can say is now what? Its hard to imagine separating the Cat gear from the Maggies. Its an absolute heavenly combination even compared to the premium gear I've been using! But the Cat gear was earmarked for a completely different system, just waiting to be assembled in a dedicated listening room. I may have to cash out my retirement account, sell all my cars, or even rob a bank, but I might just have to go for a pair of Cat Statement amps and another Legend preamp to build that second system. Tough problem when we have to deal with such dilemmas I suppose!

But to get back to the matter at hand; from my experience, a well set up pair of Maggies, driven with enough power and current, will be exactly as good as the quality of the signal they receive. And with a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinu and the new Cat gear, I think I'm gonna have to order an entire case of kleenex........ "

 

[ashandger]

Great thread and thought I'd chime in. I recently bought a Cat Legend Black Path with a pair of JL7's and have about 150 hours on them. All I listen to is vinyl and really appreciate the fantastic built in phono stage in the Legend. These were purchased for a second system that I'm going to set up in a dedicated room being built now. (thanks to Ron and Steve for your great descriptions of room construction! I read every word in those threads and implemented many of the ideas and techniques you so generously described)

It was tough to choose speakers and impossible to compare the sound of different systems because of all the variables involved. I traveled to private homes and dealers in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Florida, and attended several shows to pick out gear. When I heard the Cat gear at Axpona 2016 with the Martens and the Magicos, that was it for the electronics. I bought the Cat gear on the spot. For now I've settled on a pair of Vivid Giya G1's that should be here in about a month, almost the exact time my room will be finished. I picked the Giya's because I've primarily listened to planar speakers and they just sounded so coherent, fast, and natural that they reminded me of planars; but with a ton of gorgeous bass! We'll see when they get here, and I'll report back. I'd like to try dynamic speakers for something different, and if the Giya's don't do it for me, I'll try something else; or get a pair of 20.7i's or Sound Labs. In the mean time I've been pairing the Cat gear with Maggie 3.7i's. And to me....... its a match made in heaven! Here is how I described it in another post on a different forum:

"Maggie's with CAT gear...... Starting today I have a box of Kleenex next to my listening seat.

As I mentioned I've got a pair of Maggie 3.7i's with Mye stands, meticulously set up and have used some really great gear with outstanding results. Preamps have been Gat1, Gat2, Triode TRX2, Modwright (all upgrades). Amps have been Carver 305's (a little tube rolling), CJ Premier 8's (kt120/teflon upgrades), and Nuprime R20's; all over 300 watts per channel. Every combination has sounded great and the Gat2 is a tremendous sounding piece of gear. My favorite combination is the Gat2 with the Carvers. I've also got a pair of REL G2 subs right behind the Maggies that I've obsessively dialed in at a cross over of between 37-39 Hz and a volume setting of between 7-10 depending on the gear upstream.

However; I was so blown away by the Cat gear at Axpona that I ordered a brand new Cat Legend preamp with an amazing phono section and a pair of Cat JL7's with KT150's. They arrived last week and I immediately put them in my Maggie system. They have now had a little time to settle in with about 100 hours of play time. I bought the Cats for a second system I'm building in a new dedicated listening room over a 2 car garage that's being constructed as we speak. That new room should be ready in a few weeks, but in the mean time I'm running the Cat gear with the 3.7i's. One more point to consider is that I'm a vinyl guy, and very obsessive about dialing in my TT. The cartridge I'm using in a VPI Classic 3 with 3D arm is a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum (Koetsu folks will get this). That might seem like overkill for a $6k pair of speakers but who cares!

I'm careful about using exaggerated explicative type words and will try my best to keep these comments in relatively rational terms. But holy ****! My complete emotional melt down happened last night while listening to the most unsuspecting piece of music I could imagine. That being some rock and roll from Dave Mason's masterful debut solo album "Alone Together". Specifically the last cut on side #2; "Look at You Look at Me". The kick drum felt like it was pounding me in the chest, there was a wall of music several feet on either side of each speaker, and then at 1 point Dave shouts out a big Whoooo! That came from some distant back left corner of the soundstage and I literally jumped in my seat. Finally that amazing guitar solo at the end just ripped my heart out and I sat there emotionally drained, sobbing like a baby.

All I can say is now what? Its hard to imagine separating the Cat gear from the Maggies. Its an absolute heavenly combination even compared to the premium gear I've been using! But the Cat gear was earmarked for a completely different system, just waiting to be assembled in a dedicated listening room. I may have to cash out my retirement account, sell all my cars, or even rob a bank, but I might just have to go for a pair of Cat Statement amps and another Legend preamp to build that second system. Tough problem when we have to deal with such dilemmas I suppose!

But to get back to the matter at hand; from my experience, a well set up pair of Maggies, driven with enough power and current, will be exactly as good as the quality of the signal they receive. And with a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinu and the new Cat gear, I think I'm gonna have to order an entire case of kleenex........ "

Many thanks for great feedback. I have had CAT JL2 and SL1 Ultimate for 10 years now and totally agree with your comments. My amp use 6550C tubes and is much older than your JL7 and SL1 is no match for your Legend BP so my CATs are likely to be much less transparent and detailed but they excel in natural timbres and also great rhythm and pace and are very vibrant and engaging with great microdynamics. I am using them with Ascendo System MS speakers (Ken used to have these as his reference a while back) and full Transparent Reference MM cables including their power cables. System sounds highly natural, dynamic with great rhythm (not syrupy and slow!!). I also have a custom built listening room with dedicated mains which made a huge difference especially to bass performance of the system. Look forward to hearing further updates from you once you get your new speakers. Happy listening.

 

[DaveyF]

Hello Ted. Thanks for your excellent first post. I see you have bought the Vivid Giya G1's....a superb speaker, IMHO. I think you will have a system that will be 'killer' once you have the Vivids and the new CAT gear set up. The G1's are my top choice for a speaker, if one has the room size. The bass acuity that the G1's bring to the picture is truly SOTA, IMO. With your CAT gear and the vinyl upstream, I am certain that you will have a huge smile on your face.
Do post again with your impressions once you have this system set up.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is all very interesting, Ted. Your system must make wonderful, emotionally-involving music!

Welcome to WBF -- and thank you for posting!

 

[tedtag]

Many thanks for great feedback. I have had CAT JL2 and SL1 Ultimate for 10 years now and totally agree with your comments. My amp use 6550C tubes and is much older than your JL7 and SL1 is no match for your Legend BP so my CATs are likely to be much less transparent and detailed but they excel in natural timbres and also great rhythm and pace and are very vibrant and engaging with great microdynamics. I am using them with Ascendo System MS speakers (Ken used to have these as his reference a while back) and full Transparent Reference MM cables including their power cables. System sounds highly natural, dynamic with great rhythm (not syrupy and slow!!). I also have a custom built listening room with dedicated mains which made a huge difference especially to bass performance of the system. Look forward to hearing further updates from you once you get your new speakers. Happy listening.

Thanks Ash and appreciate your comments. I'm sure your system sounds great, although I've never had the chance to hear Ascendo System MS speakers. Ken and I have had several long conversations about speakers and the cool thing is that the JL7's would probably work well with just about anything. I was extremely tempted by the Magico's, either the S7's or the M3's, but went for the Giya's for the reasons I stated above plus they are transmission line by design, like my Acoustic Zen Crescendos. That's what that crazy looking surf-like loop is all about; sort of a horn speaker but not. (OK I'll stop there because I'm no audio engineer and have just enough knowledge to dig myself into a deep hole of misguided understanding!)

Anyway, just from listening, there really is something to the design of the Giya's that creates a certain natural and effortless presentation plus the bass is phenomenal. I did not want to give up the fantastic bass in the JL7's by having speakers with built in bass amps; like the Avantegarde Duo XD's or the Vandersteens, the Legacy's, or the Von Schweikerts. Got my fingers crossed I've made a good choice!

With the room, I'm fortunate to be able to build the whole thing from scratch. The walls are double layered sheetrock with resilient channel using the ASC Iso-wall system. The in-wall wiring is JPS 10 gauge with 30 amp dedicated circuits straight from the power pole and all other power for the building comes from a completely different meter. Then, even though the room is over a garage, I poured a 4" suspended concrete floor for stability in tracking for the TT. It should be done in about a month and I'll post some pictures and some comments about how it turned out.

 

[tedtag]

Hello Ted. Thanks for your excellent first post. I see you have bought the Vivid Giya G1's....a superb speaker, IMHO. I think you will have a system that will be 'killer' once you have the Vivids and the new CAT gear set up. The G1's are my top choice for a speaker, if one has the room size. The bass acuity that the G1's bring to the picture is truly SOTA, IMO. With your CAT gear and the vinyl upstream, I am certain that you will have a huge smile on your face.
Do post again with your impressions once you have this system set up.

Thanks Davey and I really appreciate your comments about the Giyas! I'm smiling already just from hearing your positive remarks! I'm sure with a purchase like this we all go through a variety of thoughts, feelings, and worries that we might have done better. And of course until the system is up and running in our own listening room, its sort of a well calculated guess as to how things will sound. My room is 460 square feet with 9' ceilings, no windows, and nothing in it except the gear, a listening seat, and my record collection. From my understanding it should be just about right for the G1's. Can't wait to get it all hooked up. Plus, I've got a TechDas 3 with Graham Phantom Elite on its way. Should make a nice home for my Koetsu Blue Lace!

 

[DaveyF]

Thanks Davey and I really appreciate your comments about the Giyas! I'm smiling already just from hearing your positive remarks! I'm sure with a purchase like this we all go through a variety of thoughts, feelings, and worries that we might have done better. And of course until the system is up and running in our own listening room, its sort of a well calculated guess as to how things will sound. My room is 460 square feet with 9' ceilings, no windows, and nothing in it except the gear, a listening seat, and my record collection. From my understanding it should be just about right for the G1's. Can't wait to get it all hooked up. Plus, I've got a TechDas 3 with Graham Phantom Elite on its way. Should make a nice home for my Koetsu Blue Lace!

Wow Ted, you are getting really serious!! A TechDas 3 and Graham on the way....way to go!
I was thinking the VPI Classic 3 ( while good) would be the weak link in your system, and now you will have corrected that. Do post once all this is up and running.