Cat jl5

[MadFloyd]

Thanks for posting, Ted and congrats.

I just want to pass on one thought: I built a room with ASC wall damping in my basement (ceilings, walls, floor was straight cement slab with carpet). It does a great job of keeping the bass in. Unfortunately for me it worked too well and I had problematic bass (a lot of that was due to room dimensions: 14x26x7.5) but after having to limit this room to home theater and move my listening space to a regular room upstairs, I'd be nervous about doing the ASC thing again. Do you have an acoustician?

 

[tedtag]

That is all very interesting, Ted. Your system must make wonderful, emotionally-involving music!

Welcome to WBF -- and thank you for posting!

Thanks Ron and I really appreciate all your comments and in particular your posts about your listening room experience. I learned a ton of good information that is being put to use as I'm building my room. Also, you're right, I'm in this completely for the emotional experience. Last night I was listening to Townes Van Zandt's outstanding 1973 recording, "Live at the Old Quarter" with my 21 year old stepson. Even with the $6K Maggie 3.7i's the sound was incredible. The album was recorded direct from the mic in a small night club in Houston that has another dining room up above where Townes was playing.

All through the album we're hearing chairs slide around, footsteps, glasses tinkling, etc, covering the entire ceiling of my listening room. At one point I got up and went upstairs to see if anything was going on in the room above my listening room. Nobody was there...... All of it was recorded on the album! The entire ceiling of my listening room, even behind the couch we were sitting on was filled with those sounds. Really freaky!

Then, on side #3, track #5, Townes plays a song titled "Kathleen". As hard as I tried not to break down in tears in front of my step son, I could not stop myself. As I paused to wipe an eye without him seeing me, I glanced over and he's sobbing too. We were both so moved by the moment and the intense emotional connection to the music, we had to stop playing and take a breather. In fact that was the end of the listening session; we just wanted to hold on to that feeling for a while.

 

[tedtag]

Thanks for posting, Ted and congrats.

I just want to pass on one thought: I built a room with ASC wall damping in my basement (ceilings, walls, floor was straight cement slab with carpet). It does a great job of keeping the bass in. Unfortunately for me it worked too well and I had problematic bass (a lot of that was due to room dimensions: 14x26x7.5) but after having to limit this room to home theater and move my listening space to a regular room upstairs, I'd be nervous about doing the ASC thing again. Do you have an acoustician?

Thanks for your comment and hope I'm not over doing it with the wall damping system! I'm working with Jim Smith who wrote "Get Better Sound" and he has provided a lot of valuable advise. Jim lives nearby so I've been to his room he built using the ASC system, and he's helped me with another system. Jim will be involved with the set up of this room too. Also, I flew to Boston and spent a day with Alan Goodwin who showed me how he built all 6 of his listening rooms using the same ASC system. But as far as I can tell, its part art and part science.

I'm expecting to have to do a lot of work to dial in the room even with the iso damp system using tube traps, panels, or even Synergistic Research products. The room I have now took me 2 years to tame and get it right and I ended up with 7 tube traps, 9 Stillpoint Apertures, 3 SR FEQ's, 2 SR Bass Boxes, and 20 HFT's. All of that was trial and error, but it turned out great. As I added each treatment, or moved a panel or even the SR products, it made a difference and right now it sounds great and was worth the trouble. I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm about to do all that again!

 

[MadFloyd]

Thanks for your comment and hope I'm not over doing it with the wall damping system! I'm working with Jim Smith who wrote "Get Better Sound" and he has provided a lot of valuable advise. Jim lives nearby so I've been to his room he built using the ASC system, and he's helped me with another system. Jim will be involved with the set up of this room too. Also, I flew to Boston and spent a day with Alan Goodwin who showed me how he built all 6 of his listening rooms using the same ASC system. But as far as I can tell, its part art and part science.

I'm expecting to have to do a lot of work to dial in the room even with the iso damp system using tube traps, panels, or even Synergistic Research products. The room I have now took me 2 years to tame and get it right and I ended up with 7 tube traps, 9 Stillpoint Apertures, 3 SR FEQ's, 2 SR Bass Boxes, and 20 HFT's. All of that was trial and error, but it turned out great. As I added each treatment, or moved a panel or even the SR products, it made a difference and right now it sounds great and was worth the trouble. I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm about to do all that again!

Sounds like you know what you are doing and coincidentally I used Goodwins for the ASC work and have had Jim Smith voice my system so you are in good hands!

 

[bonzo75]

Great thread and thought I'd chime in. I recently bought a Cat Legend Black Path with a pair of JL7's and have about 150 hours on them. All I listen to is vinyl and really appreciate the fantastic built in phono stage in the Legend. These were purchased for a second system that I'm going to set up in a dedicated room being built now. (thanks to Ron and Steve for your great descriptions of room construction! I read every word in those threads and implemented many of the ideas and techniques you so generously described)

It was tough to choose speakers and impossible to compare the sound of different systems because of all the variables involved. I traveled to private homes and dealers in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Florida, and attended several shows to pick out gear. When I heard the Cat gear at Axpona 2016 with the Martens and the Magicos, that was it for the electronics. I bought the Cat gear on the spot. For now I've settled on a pair of Vivid Giya G1's that should be here in about a month, almost the exact time my room will be finished. I picked the Giya's because I've primarily listened to planar speakers and they just sounded so coherent, fast, and natural that they reminded me of planars; but with a ton of gorgeous bass! We'll see when they get here, and I'll report back. I'd like to try dynamic speakers for something different, and if the Giya's don't do it for me, I'll try something else; or get a pair of 20.7i's or Sound Labs. In the mean time I've been pairing the Cat gear with Maggie 3.7i's. And to me....... its a match made in heaven! Here is how I described it in another post on a different forum:

"Maggie's with CAT gear...... Starting today I have a box of Kleenex next to my listening seat.

As I mentioned I've got a pair of Maggie 3.7i's with Mye stands, meticulously set up and have used some really great gear with outstanding results. Preamps have been Gat1, Gat2, Triode TRX2, Modwright (all upgrades). Amps have been Carver 305's (a little tube rolling), CJ Premier 8's (kt120/teflon upgrades), and Nuprime R20's; all over 300 watts per channel. Every combination has sounded great and the Gat2 is a tremendous sounding piece of gear. My favorite combination is the Gat2 with the Carvers. I've also got a pair of REL G2 subs right behind the Maggies that I've obsessively dialed in at a cross over of between 37-39 Hz and a volume setting of between 7-10 depending on the gear upstream.

However; I was so blown away by the Cat gear at Axpona that I ordered a brand new Cat Legend preamp with an amazing phono section and a pair of Cat JL7's with KT150's. They arrived last week and I immediately put them in my Maggie system. They have now had a little time to settle in with about 100 hours of play time. I bought the Cats for a second system I'm building in a new dedicated listening room over a 2 car garage that's being constructed as we speak. That new room should be ready in a few weeks, but in the mean time I'm running the Cat gear with the 3.7i's. One more point to consider is that I'm a vinyl guy, and very obsessive about dialing in my TT. The cartridge I'm using in a VPI Classic 3 with 3D arm is a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum (Koetsu folks will get this). That might seem like overkill for a $6k pair of speakers but who cares!

I'm careful about using exaggerated explicative type words and will try my best to keep these comments in relatively rational terms. But holy ****! My complete emotional melt down happened last night while listening to the most unsuspecting piece of music I could imagine. That being some rock and roll from Dave Mason's masterful debut solo album "Alone Together". Specifically the last cut on side #2; "Look at You Look at Me". The kick drum felt like it was pounding me in the chest, there was a wall of music several feet on either side of each speaker, and then at 1 point Dave shouts out a big Whoooo! That came from some distant back left corner of the soundstage and I literally jumped in my seat. Finally that amazing guitar solo at the end just ripped my heart out and I sat there emotionally drained, sobbing like a baby.

All I can say is now what? Its hard to imagine separating the Cat gear from the Maggies. Its an absolute heavenly combination even compared to the premium gear I've been using! But the Cat gear was earmarked for a completely different system, just waiting to be assembled in a dedicated listening room. I may have to cash out my retirement account, sell all my cars, or even rob a bank, but I might just have to go for a pair of Cat Statement amps and another Legend preamp to build that second system. Tough problem when we have to deal with such dilemmas I suppose!

But to get back to the matter at hand; from my experience, a well set up pair of Maggies, driven with enough power and current, will be exactly as good as the quality of the signal they receive. And with a Koetsu Blue Lace Platinu and the new Cat gear, I think I'm gonna have to order an entire case of kleenex........ "

nteresting. I wanted to move from planars and seriously considered vivids, because of size, off axis, excellent tone and bass integration and slam. Never heard them with valves, but did listen in the same room with valve pre and ypsilon aelius hybrids and Luxman m800 bridged and preferred the latter. Also heard them with Spectral 360 and MBL 2011. They sound great in Munich with CH Precision

The planars that drew me back in were restored apogees - if you can listen to the true sound works restores, you should. There is one I know in long island and the others on the west coast. So if you look at Maggie 3.7i, also give these a lesson.

I would love to listen to the Vivids with valves sometimes.

 

[tedtag]

nteresting. I wanted to move from planars and seriously considered vivids, because of size, off axis, excellent tone and bass integration and slam. Never heard them with valves, but did listen in the same room with valve pre and ypsilon aelius hybrids and Luxman m800 bridged and preferred the latter. Also heard them with Spectral 360 and MBL 2011. They sound great in Munich with CH Precision

The planars that drew me back in were restored apogees - if you can listen to the true sound works restores, you should. There is one I know in long island and the others on the west coast. So if you look at Maggie 3.7i, also give these a lesson.

I would love to listen to the Vivids with valves sometimes.

Thanks for your comments and I'll be back with some thoughts about the Cat's and Vivid's in a few weeks. In the mean time here's a picture of the JL7's, with part of the right channel Maggie nearby.

 

[MadFloyd]

View attachment 28837

Thanks for your comments and I'll be back with some thoughts about the Cat's and Vivid's in a few weeks. In the mean time here's a picture of the JL7's, with part of the right channel Maggie nearby.

What type of amp stand is that and did you also try the amps without stands?

 

[tedtag]

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Finished-Platforms-for-Carpet/departments/48/

What type of amp stand is that and did you also try the amps without stands?

Those are Mapleshade 4" plinths in black. I've tried with and without them using many amps and have always found these to improve the sound. Plus they are relatively cheap and versatile.

 

[DaveyF]

Ted, thanks for the photo...looks great. I noticed you are in Georgia, as such, I am wondering if the heat from the amps is a factor. Last night, I was running my JR 8T and after about 40 minutes, the heat in my room was unpleasant ( albeit I have a very small room, and in S.Calif at the moment it is fairly humid). Nonetheless, CAT amps are known for giving off a fair bit of heat.

 

[tedtag]

Ted, thanks for the photo...looks great. I noticed you are in Georgia, as such, I am wondering if the heat from the amps is a factor. Last night, I was running my JR 8T and after about 40 minutes, the heat in my room was unpleasant ( albeit I have a very small room, and in S.Calif at the moment it is fairly humid). Nonetheless, CAT amps are known for giving off a fair bit of heat.

No doubt about it, the JL7's run pretty hot. In fact hotter than anything i've had before. That includes a pair of CJ Premier 8's and a pair of Carver Black Beauty 305's; both pair now sitting patiently on the sidelines wondering if they'll ever have another chance! (see picture)

The Cats may save me some money on heating bills in the winter, but for now I keep the A/C about 1 or 2 degrees cooler on the lower level of my house where my room is located, when I'm settling in for a long listening session. And kids and dogs are not allowed in there for the sake of their own safety! I've been known to "X" out the doorways with yellow caution tape just to make that point.

As for Georgia, we are in the very NE corner of the state in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, so its about 10 degrees cooler than Atlanta most of the time. The picture in my avatar is actually the view looking over my left shoulder from my listening seat. Pretty fortunate to have that in the background while playing music!

 

[DaveyF]

View attachment 28849

No doubt about it, the JL7's run pretty hot. In fact hotter than anything i've had before. That includes a pair of CJ Premier 8's and a pair of Carver Black Beauty 305's; both pair now sitting patiently on the sidelines wondering if they'll ever have another chance! (see picture)

The Cats may save me some money on heating bills in the winter, but for now I keep the A/C about 1 or 2 degrees cooler on the lower level of my house where my room is located, when I'm settling in for a long listening session. And kids and dogs are not allowed in there for the sake of their own safety! I've been known to "X" out the doorways with yellow caution tape just to make that point.

As for Georgia, we are in the very NE corner of the state in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, so its about 10 degrees cooler than Atlanta most of the time. The picture in my avatar is actually the view looking over my left shoulder from my listening seat. Pretty fortunate to have that in the background while playing music!

Ted, that's what I was expecting! However, I didn't expect that the CAT's would give off more heat than the Premier 8's!!
The CJ's were known as space heaters in the day, so I guess you will be saving big money on heating bills next winter, lol.
Your area in Georgia looks beautiful, a great view while listening is icing on the cake.

 

[tedtag]

Ted, that's what I was expecting! However, I didn't expect that the CAT's would give off more heat than the Premier 8's!!
The CJ's were known as space heaters in the day, so I guess you will be saving big money on heating bills next winter, lol.
Your area in Georgia looks beautiful, a great view while listening is icing on the cake.

I bought the Prem 8's brand new about 20 years ago with 6550's. Then I sent them back to be changed to EL34's, and then again to KT120's with all of the teflon upgrades. Supposedly in their latest configuration, they are about equal to the new CJ Arts according the the Technician who did the work at CJ.

The Cats run hotter than any of the configurations I've had with the 8's. Although the 8's sound terrific in just about every way, especially with the kt120's, IMHO the Cats have more emotional impact with a presence of unlimited and effortless power. Also, the dynamics of the Cats can be startling. They capture all the subtle nuances of a whisper but then can explode like thunder in an instant. I've found myself and even guests, gripping the couch in anticipation of a crescendo, and even then it will catch you off guard. Absolutely amazing.

The Carvers however, may be one of the best bargains in high end audio.They are a little lighter in the bass than the 8's or Cats, but have a gorgeous tonality with lots of detail. But to get the best out of them, I changed the 12AX7 input tubes to Telefunken ECC83's. That did it and was a remarkable upgrade! With the Telefunken tubes, they don't fall far behind the 8's and in some ways, they even beat them.

But if I had to pick one of these pair of high power tubed monoblocks for the proverbial desert island system, it would be the Cats without ever giving it a second thought or worrying about the heat!

 

[LL21]

great stuff Tedtag, a big CJ fan myself after 15 years of consecutive ownership of at least 1 CJ piece (preamps mainly) in my system. I have never pursued the big CJ monos, but always wanted to hear them...i have also always wanted to hear the mighty CATs...so thanks for the comparison. interesting and will keep that in mind.

and yes, i have heard the same from people who have sent back their Premier 8s to be upgraded with Teflon Capacitors. Congrats...that must a huge bargain in performance with absolutely rock-solid long-term value, stability, reliability.

 

[MadFloyd]

Interestingly enough, my JL7s do not put out as much heat as my Pass XS-150s.

 

[DaveyF]

But if I had to pick one of these pair of high power tubed monoblocks for the proverbial desert island system, it would be the Cats without ever giving it a second thought or worrying about the heat!

That makes perfect sense. I am sure the CAT's are superior sounding to the other mono blocks. The heat issue is not a problem if you have a big enough room. It is only when you have a small room ( like mine),
that one has to consider these things.

 

[tedtag]

great stuff Tedtag, a big CJ fan myself after 15 years of consecutive ownership of at least 1 CJ piece (preamps mainly) in my system. I have never pursued the big CJ monos, but always wanted to hear them...i have also always wanted to hear the mighty CATs...so thanks for the comparison. interesting and will keep that in mind.

and yes, i have heard the same from people who have sent back their Premier 8s to be upgraded with Teflon Capacitors. Congrats...that must a huge bargain in performance with absolutely rock-solid long-term value, stability, reliability.

The 8's are going right back in my Maggie system to drive the 3.7i's once I get my new listening room completed and move the Cats and the Cat Legend to the new room with the Vivids. The preamp with the 8's and Maggies will be my Gat2. I noticed you have a Gat and wondered if you have considered the upgrade? I upgraded mine back in February and thought it was well worth it in terms of a really noticeable performance improvement. The Gat2 has a certain "lightness" about it that I love. I'd say the Gat2 is more like a really hot blonde, and the Cat is more like a gorgeous brunette. Tough to go wrong I suppose.

Also, It's hard to do a direct comparison with the Cat Legend and the Gat2 with vinyl because of the built in phono section in the Cat. Even though I'm using a fully upgraded CJ Premier 15 phono preamp with the Gat2, I've also got a cinema SUT and an extra pair of Audience tonearm cables in the CJ set up. With all those extra connections with the CJ vinyl rig, I'm sure a lot gets lost. (The second picture is the inside of the Cat and the entire left half is the phono section.) Hey, maybe I should do a Cat/ Gat2 shoot out using digital??? Dah.........

The upgrade to teflon and KT120's with the 8's was huge and relatively inexpensive, except for shipping those beasts! But I've often wondered how much better the Premier 8 amps could sound with upgraded power cords. The problem is they have built in garden hose sized power cords from the factory and I'd have to send them back again to have an IEC outlet installed. Should have had that done when they were already at the factory. For years, CJ insisted that their power cord couldn't be beat, but that's obviously changed with their more current models that come with an IEC.

 

[tedtag]

Interestingly enough, my JL7s do not put out as much heat as my Pass XS-150s.

Interesting about the Pass amps running hot. Seems like I could roast marshmallows with the Cats! My current room is about 14' x 28' with 2 doors I keep open to a living room area so the heat sort of spreads around. I actually keep those doors open when playing music to smooth out the bass, and never even considered the cooling effect they might provide. Any thoughts about your Cats vs Pass? I might have missed a previous post where you mentioned that.

 

[analog brother]

cats are the hottest amps i ever been in the same room as.
hot air like a sauna.
and the dm-100 gryphon wasn't far behind.

 

[LL21]

...The preamp with the 8's and Maggies will be my Gat2. I noticed you have a Gat and wondered if you have considered the upgrade? I upgraded mine back in February and thought it was well worth it in terms of a really noticeable performance improvement. The Gat2 has a certain "lightness" about it that I love. I'd say the Gat2 is more like a really hot blonde, and the Cat is more like a gorgeous brunette. Tough to go wrong I suppose.


...Hey, maybe I should do a Cat/ Gat2 shoot out using digital??? Dah.........

...For years, CJ insisted that their power cord couldn't be beat, but that's obviously changed with their more current models that come with an IEC...

Thanks for the insight! Very, very interesting...would love to hear more about the GAT vs GAT2 experience/difference. Yes, i think it is on the list of things to do, though i am enjoying the system so much, its not an urgent thing. That is what is great about CJ...they will support upgrades YEARS later! They are truly phenomenal about their service in my personal experience over the last 15+ years.

And yes, i found that it is VERY tough to beat the CJ powercords particularly when they are 'free' since you've already paid for it...but i have replaced the stock with Purist Audio 25th Anniversary and do prefer it to be sure. I also found that my CJ GAT reacted very well to isolation... i have it on top of an HRS M3X isolation platform with multiple HRS nimbus couplers in between. And then on TOP of the GAT, i have 2 double thickness HRS long damping plates, an Artesania Damping plate, and EAT tube dampers on both tubes (which made a huge improvement imho).

Look forward to reading more about your thoughts on CJ GAT vs GAT 2...and also about CAT which sounds like a true legend.

 

[tedtag]

I also found that my CJ GAT reacted very well to isolation... i have it on top of an HRS M3X isolation platform with multiple HRS nimbus couplers in between. And then on TOP of the GAT, i have 2 double thickness HRS long damping plates, an Artesania Damping plate, and EAT tube dampers on both tubes (which made a huge improvement imho).

Agree completely with the isolation on the CJ GAT. Those hard plastic feet just didn't cut it. I've tried several isolation devices and settled for now with Herbies Big Fat Tenderfeet for about $60. I've also got tube dampers on both tubes and found that to provide a nice improvement.

Can't really comment with total accuracy about the Gat2 upgrade because I switched from a Shunyata Titan V1 to a V2 at the same time. They both arrived the same day and in a state of blind enthusiasm, put them both in the system at the same time! I will say the upgrade from both was incredible but can't say how much of that was the preamp and how much the power conditioner upgrade. And since I sent back my V1, I won't get a second chance! CJ did turn the Gat around in 3 weeks as promised. They have been terrific to work with for years.