Catering to the rich not the audiophile

Boy, has this thread made a lot of people allergic to a lot of different things! First, there is money itself. Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but there will always be inequality. Yet there are 2 kinds of inequality. If you visited a factory in the Soviet Union and found that everyone had the same salary, the same status, and got the same rewards, you would understand why the Soviet workers had motivation to put away a bottle or 2 of vodka everyday at work and die at 57, as their plant and country crumbled. There's also another kind of inequality. Most people have absolutely no problem with type: It's guys like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, the Google guys, and the like - making huge incomes and creating vast wealth for themselves and tremendous productivity gains for those who use their products. (If you are allergic to this second kind of inequality, you better move to Cuba or North Korea, as this type of stuff is all around you, making you miserable every second of every day.) Now I do understand the allergic reaction to the inequality created when some companies and individuals get in bed with the politicians and get special favors / deals. But as long as there is nothing illegal here - and there is no evidence that any of the guys in the article are criminals, it is what it is. In the end, all we have are rich guys buying things, which is more productive to all of us (as the money makes its way through the economy) than the guy hoarding his money under a mattress.

The other main allergy attack seems to be "expensive is best". This has been argued out ad nauseum and seems to come up in every other thread. Here's my take on this: If you like the sound of a Nola or a Martin Logan, you can buy a model for $3k, $15K, or more. It's the same sonic signature from the same manufacturer. You will get more detail, extension, and fireworks by paying more. But no one is holding a gun to your head if you want to pay less. The key is to figure out which brand you like, and then spend as much or little as you like.

To me, the dealer here is no different than any other dealer, except he limits his market niche to the upper end. But if you walk into any dealer and tell him you are looking at the high end of the market, he will assemble a similarly priced system for you using the brands he sells. The guy in the article just has the advantage of marketing himself better because he only has "the best".

I guess the issue I have with the customer in the article has to do with how "involved he is". The article doesn't really state how many systems he has heard at that price range. If he has not heard too many, he may not be getting the optimal thing for him. Yes, he and his wife were into the music, but say he heard another brand, he may get absorbed even more. But on the other hand, the guy will probably be much happier with his system than most of us here on this site as he got something that satisfies his needs. By limiting his choices of gear, he will not be engaging in endless comparisons, his purchase process will not drag on for months, he will not be second guessing his decision, he will not be experiencing regret after purchase as he won't know something "better" may have come out at an upcoming show. Overall, he will have less anxiety and be happier listening to music rather than worrying about the gear.

I think your last paragraph is really the point, C. This customer profile may not be interested in doing the research or taking the time to make comparisons- it's often the same reason people hire interior decorators, have 'personal shoppers,' and let their business managers or personal assistants handle the details of life. They are too busy and when they have time for fun, they just want to enjoy. Not a bad way to live, and while the customers may not get exactly what's 'right,' and will pay for the privilege, who's to say that's wrong? It's also a question of priorities. I have a dear friend who has what most folks would consider to be a pretty high end system, and I don't really think he spends much, if any, time thinking about it, he just turns it on, and let's music play; I know his wife really enjoys music. He has other interests which he pursues with a vengeance, and is as serious about them as any of us are about hi-fi.
 
when you guys bring up food I get sidetracked :) i meant to comment on the WSJ article, the first thought that ran through my mind was "score for Gideonl!" our firm spends quite a bit to get articles printed about the co., broker profiles, done deals and case studies - any mention in WSJ would be a score in my book. Ive actually corresponed with him re the Rethm horns and he'll sell you a system or component well under 20k and he's more humble than the guy dipicted in the article.
 
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. Ive actually corresponed with him re the Rethm horns and he'll sell you a system or component well under 20k and he's more humble than the guy dipicted in the article.

Leave it to the media types to nick pick statements from the interview to construct a written piece that takes conversation sound bites out of context. When I read it, it sounded like this guy was a snobbish jerk. Since you posted your experience actually talking with him, my impression has changed.
 
I think the greatest thing about this guy's gig is that he is selling hi-end gear to rich people who know nothing about hi-end gear except they want it in their home. These rich customers of his don't know squat about audio and assume that he is their audio guru/genius. Because they don't know squat about high-end audio, they won't neurose about their buying decisions either and second-guess themselves to death and worry about ICs, PCs, and the latest in tweak fashions. That probably makes them happier *audiophiles* and music lovers. I just see it as a win-win all around.
 
I think the greatest thing about this guy's gig is that he is selling hi-end gear to rich people who know nothing about hi-end gear except they want it in their home. These rich customers of his don't know squat about audio and assume that he is their audio guru/genius. Because they don't know squat about high-end audio, they won't neurose about their buying decisions either and second-guess themselves to death and worry about ICs, PCs, and the latest in tweak fashions. That probably makes them happier *audiophiles* and music lovers. I just see it as a win-win all around.

Most people are looking to buy the hole in the wall, not the drill. He is selling a "musical spa", not audio gear.
 
I think your last paragraph is really the point, C. This customer profile may not be interested in doing the research or taking the time to make comparisons- it's often the same reason people hire interior decorators, have 'personal shoppers,' and let their business managers or personal assistants handle the details of life. They are too busy and when they have time for fun, they just want to enjoy. Not a bad way to live, and while the customers may not get exactly what's 'right,' and will pay for the privilege, who's to say that's wrong? It's also a question of priorities. I have a dear friend who has what most folks would consider to be a pretty high end system, and I don't really think he spends much, if any, time thinking about it, he just turns it on, and let's music play; I know his wife really enjoys music. He has other interests which he pursues with a vengeance, and is as serious about them as any of us are about hi-fi.

Herein lies the rub: We, as a community, want more folks involved in the High-End market, yet, at the same time we expect folks to exhibit a substantial degree of diligence regarding the pursuit. To them, it's just a stereo. They want to buy and own a stereo, not a lifestyle and not a metric of one's (audio-political) good taste and aural acuity. They're not hobbyists. The sooner we realize this, the better the chances of introducing economies of scale. We all benefit.
 
I'm amazed that this thread has went this far and it hasn't been mentioned that Mr. Gideon was the one showing the incredible Voxativ Ampeggio speakers at some of the Axpona's last year, maybe all. I met him in Atlanta where it was being powered by a Fi amp.

Several of us thought it was one of the best sounds at the show! Very nice, smooth and yet dynamic! And he was very nice gentleman, obviously enjoying the showing and the music! That speaker went on to be named Stereophiles component of the year. So he would seem to be associated with some very nice products. Nor were those stupid expensive necessarily.


CJ
 
Educate yourself on GS. Their power and dominance in the world economy can not be denied. Like it or not... Money talks, bullsheet walks...

Given that quite a few of them should have been prosecuted and imprisoned by now, and they haven't even been charged, their power is hard to deny. Evidently they have the power to purchase the Justice Department of the United States of America. Their integrity, however, is another matter.

Tim
 
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Herein lies the rub: We, as a community, want more folks involved in the High-End market, yet, at the same time we expect folks to exhibit a substantial degree of diligence regarding the pursuit. To them, it's just a stereo. They want to buy and own a stereo, not a lifestyle and not a metric of one's (audio-political) good taste and aural acuity. They're not hobbyists. The sooner we realize this, the better the chances of introducing economies of scale. We all benefit.

I think that people on this website are so passionate about audio we can't get over the fact that someone could just drop 100k on equipment and not do there due diligence.

I'll give you another example. There is a site called www.ferrarichat. It's a site dedicated to all Ferrari cars ever made. Some guys go on there and ask a million questions about F-cars. They want to know everything about them before they make a purchase. They might be on there for up to 5 years before they ever buy a car. Other guys go on there ask 2 or 3 questions and the next thing you know there buying a car. When these guys go back to the site with problems they are having with the car. A lot of the membership on that site give them a hard time because they didn't do their due diligence.

I know this isn't exactly the situation we are talking about here. Hopefully you get my point.
 
Given that quite a few of them should have been prosecuted and imprisoned by now, and they haven't even been charged, their power is hard to deny. Evidently they have the power to purchase the Justice Department of the United States of America. Their integrity, however, is another matter.

Tim

+1
 
Having just returned from a trip to Africa, this thread seems a little sad to me. Why, because so many people in Africa simply do not have access to running water or electricity or even any kind of a roof over their head. The ability to write this on my "computer" is something that millions cannot even fathom of doing, never mind contemplating the actions of the Goldman Sachs employee. Sometimes, ( many times?) I think we ( a collective we) could do well to remember how VERY fortunate we all are. Happy New Year.
 
Having just returned from a trip to Africa, this thread seems a little sad to me. Why, because so many people in Africa simply do not have access to running water or electricity or even any kind of a roof over their head. The ability to write this on my "computer" is something that millions cannot even fathom of doing, never mind contemplating the actions of the Goldman Sachs employee. Sometimes, ( many times?) I think we ( a collective we) could do well to remember how VERY fortunate we all are. Happy New Year.

Thank you for that. I work to remember that sort of reality....in each and every action I contemplate. Living like an emotionally stunted financially motivated parasite on humanity, is not something that appeals to me. The action and mental state of the parasite is so widecast in it's effects and ripples... that I must, at the very least, speak out on the subject, no matter how distasteful it may be.
 
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I also find it ironic that some people who live in Nigeria have internet access and perpetuate financial scams on greedy people. How many of us have received emails telling us about fortunes that someone has come into because somebody died with no heirs and they just want to wash the money through your bank account and will give you millions of dollars for letting them do that? I have lost count of the number of Nigerian scam emails that I have received over the years. I usually email them back and tell them I'm pretty stupid and ask them if I should just go ahead and give them all of my bank account information. So if you want to talk about emotionally stunted financially motivated parasites on humanity, I give you exhibit A.
 
I also find it ironic that some people who live in Nigeria have internet access and perpetuate financial scams on greedy people. How many of us have received emails telling us about fortunes that someone has come into because somebody died with no heirs and they just want to wash the money through your bank account and will give you millions of dollars for letting them do that? I have lost count of the number of Nigerian scam emails that I have received over the years. I usually email them back and tell them I'm pretty stupid and ask them if I should just go ahead and give them all of my bank account information. So if you want to talk about emotionally stunted financially motivated parasites on humanity, I give you exhibit A.

I can top that! Last week I got an e-mail supposedly from the FBI (Otherwise Nigeria) telling me that the U.S. government needed my help. I forwarded the e-mail to the Internet crimes dept in Los Angeles.
 
Boy, has this thread made a lot of people allergic to a lot of different things! First, there is money itself. Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but there will always be inequality. Yet there are 2 kinds of inequality. If you visited a factory in the Soviet Union and found that everyone had the same salary, the same status, and got the same rewards, you would understand why the Soviet workers had motivation to put away a bottle or 2 of vodka everyday at work and die at 57, as their plant and country crumbled. There's also another kind of inequality. Most people have absolutely no problem with type: It's guys like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, the Google guys, and the like - making huge incomes and creating vast wealth for themselves and tremendous productivity gains for those who use their products. (If you are allergic to this second kind of inequality, you better move to Cuba or North Korea, as this type of stuff is all around you, making you miserable every second of every day.) Now I do understand the allergic reaction to the inequality created when some companies and individuals get in bed with the politicians and get special favors / deals. But as long as there is nothing illegal here - and there is no evidence that any of the guys in the article are criminals, it is what it is. In the end, all we have are rich guys buying things, which is more productive to all of us (as the money makes its way through the economy) than the guy hoarding his money under a mattress.

The other main allergy attack seems to be "expensive is best". This has been argued out ad nauseum and seems to come up in every other thread. Here's my take on this: If you like the sound of a Nola or a Martin Logan, you can buy a model for $3k, $15K, or more. It's the same sonic signature from the same manufacturer. You will get more detail, extension, and fireworks by paying more. But no one is holding a gun to your head if you want to pay less. The key is to figure out which brand you like, and then spend as much or little as you like.

To me, the dealer here is no different than any other dealer, except he limits his market niche to the upper end. But if you walk into any dealer and tell him you are looking at the high end of the market, he will assemble a similarly priced system for you using the brands he sells. The guy in the article just has the advantage of marketing himself better because he only has "the best".

I guess the issue I have with the customer in the article has to do with how "involved he is". The article doesn't really state how many systems he has heard at that price range. If he has not heard too many, he may not be getting the optimal thing for him. Yes, he and his wife were into the music, but say he heard another brand, he may get absorbed even more. But on the other hand, the guy will probably be much happier with his system than most of us here on this site as he got something that satisfies his needs. By limiting his choices of gear, he will not be engaging in endless comparisons, his purchase process will not drag on for months, he will not be second guessing his decision, he will not be experiencing regret after purchase as he won't know something "better" may have come out at an upcoming show. Overall, he will have less anxiety and be happier listening to music rather than worrying about the gear.

I think that people on this website are so passionate about audio we can't get over the fact that someone could just drop 100k on equipment and not do there due diligence.

I'll give you another example. There is a site called www.ferrarichat. It's a site dedicated to all Ferrari cars ever made. Some guys go on there and ask a million questions about F-cars. They want to know everything about them before they make a purchase. They might be on there for up to 5 years before they ever buy a car. Other guys go on there ask 2 or 3 questions and the next thing you know there buying a car. When these guys go back to the site with problems they are having with the car. A lot of the membership on that site give them a hard time because they didn't do their due diligence.

I know this isn't exactly the situation we are talking about here. Hopefully you get my point.

Good read; both quotes above. :b
 
I think that people on this website are so passionate about audio we can't get over the fact that someone could just drop 100k on equipment and not do there due diligence.

I'll give you another example. There is a site called www.ferrarichat. It's a site dedicated to all Ferrari cars ever made. Some guys go on there and ask a million questions about F-cars. They want to know everything about them before they make a purchase. They might be on there for up to 5 years before they ever buy a car. Other guys go on there ask 2 or 3 questions and the next thing you know there buying a car. When these guys go back to the site with problems they are having with the car. A lot of the membership on that site give them a hard time because they didn't do their due diligence.

I know this isn't exactly the situation we are talking about here. Hopefully you get my point.

1. You've cited something commonly called the Ferrari Argument, albeit from a somewhat skewed perspective. Yes, lots of poseurs buy Ferraris. This very act is what allows the few enthusiasts to buy Ferraris, as well; otherwise, the cars would cost too much to produce and/or they would not exist at all. As such, the poseurs are a necessary part of Ferrari's existence.

2. Where in the world do we get the sheer arrogance to demand anything other than a purchase from a perspective customer looking for a fine audio system? Who appointed the few dorks with audio on their brains as guardians of human aural interaction and its associated consumer behavior? Taters, wanna take a shot a this?

3. Obviously, I have no issue with anyone buying whatever they choose. Here is where I do have an issue: It's when someone buys a very expensive audio system and, BANG, he's an instant, experienced audiophile talking to me on the Internet. There's a whole forum like that.
 
Nor were those stupid expensive necessarily.

6moons listened to the Voxativ against the Rethm and the latter blew them away in practically all aspects for around a third of the price. To me that does indeed suggest that the Voxativ is indeed in the 'stupid expensive' category. Not to mention its pig-ugly compared to the Maargas ;)
 

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