CD's/SACDs vs Server and Streamer

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
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#21
Sure Francisco. Who's up for comparing TotalDac, Ares Cerat and MSB dacs thru the Extreme versus thru the JMF transport?
The JMF plays EVERY format incl Blu Ray Audio and Blue Ray Pure. I'vr got a few Blu Ray Audio discs I'd love to hear thru the JMF. Totally taken by it's battleship build too.
Pls include the Wadax Atlantis universal transport in that group of very top tranaports.
:)
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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#22
Sure CK. But as a total brute, the JMF is in a class of it's own.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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#23
i'd bet a Taiko Tana platform would be a game changer with any transport. and it has a 300 pound capacity.....for those wedded to the disc culture and seeking ultimate performance.

my stock Herzan TS-150 with stacked (1) dart pre + (2) Aqua Formula dac + (3) La Diva transport made a big difference with the transport. and the stock Herzan is degrees less capable and had a SMPS corrupting things. still the net was positive.

you would, of course, need the proper floor and rack for the Tana to optimally do it's thing.
 
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GSOphile

Active Member
Sep 4, 2017
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#24
From my more limited means, the question would need to be answered within a spend of say $20-25K. Would that change the answer?
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#25
From my more limited means, the question would need to be answered within a spend of say $20-25K. Would that change the answer?
not sure who you are addressing that question to.

if it's to me regarding the Taiko Tana (aprox $16k list price including LPS and Dazia platform, less for the smaller footprint TS-150 size), i could see if someone owns a really good older transport already, then adding the Tana platform might exceed a new transport's delta of improvement.

it would be a question.

would a new $12k transport + a Tana, surpass a new $25k transport? i would think it would. the Tana brings a music focus not otherwise possible. and unlike turntables, there is no outboard motor and belt on a disc spinner that could cause a feedback loop for the active Tana.
 
May 30, 2010
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#26
i'd bet a Taiko Tana platform would be a game changer with any transport. and it has a 300 pound capacity.....for those wedded to the disc culture and seeking ultimate performance.
(...)
Perhaps a game changer - but unless we try we can't be sure we want to change the game!

Most of the time ultra high-end equipment is finely tuned to the intentions of the creator - changing anything can completely destroy its equilibrium. The electro-mechanical aspects of electronics, including digital, are very poorly understood, we can't take anything for granted.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#27
Perhaps a game changer - but unless we try we can't be sure we want to change the game!

Most of the time ultra high-end equipment is finely tuned to the intentions of the creator - changing anything can completely destroy its equilibrium. The electro-mechanical aspects of electronics, including digital, are very poorly understood, we can't take anything for granted.
well.....here we simply disagree.

i cannot imagine a disc transport not improved significantly by a Taiko Tana. of course......that is just my own opinion based on my experience with the Taiko Tana.

the only way this would not happen would be if the transport had some sort of vibration it put off that created a feedback to the active sensors. and any decent transport won't be doing that. remember; active is stiff and is not going to change tonality, only improve focus, nuance and naturalness.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#28
I disagree creators finely tune to equilibrium. Maybe in very rare cases
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#29
FWIW, I put my Eera cdp on the Stacore Adv during trial period. It transformed it. Now granted, it is dac AND transport in one, but my instinct is that the Stacore wrought as much change under the mechanicals of the transport as the electronics of the dac. Under the tt, Stacore effects undeniable.
 
May 30, 2010
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#30
I disagree creators finely tune to equilibrium. Maybe in very rare cases
It is not I am meaning in my sentence. I am just saying that the balance between characteristics defines the equipment and changing any of them can affect significantly sound quality.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#31
Ok understand
 
May 30, 2010
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#32
well.....here we simply disagree.

i cannot imagine a disc transport not improved significantly by a Taiko Tana. of course......that is just my own opinion based on my experience with the Taiko Tana.
Do you feel the same for all turntables?

the only way this would not happen would be if the transport had some sort of vibration it put off that created a feedback to the active sensors. and any decent transport won't be doing that. remember; active is stiff and is not going to change tonality, only improve focus, nuance and naturalness.
I will not enter such debate, as we would need technical details that Taiko Audio is not interested in releasing openly in a forum. However an active system has is not an ideal system - it creates its own sound signature. Humanly checked stiffness is a very poor indicator of mechanical behavior for audio purposes. The way mechanics affect the sound quality of CD transports is also poorly understood.

BTW, I work daily less than 100 feet away from an active platform - perhaps it affects the way I perceive my system! ;)
 

GSOphile

Active Member
Sep 4, 2017
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#33
Mike, my question was directed to whoever would like to comment. I value both CD and SACD playback.... and simplicity. So my $20 - 25K baseline (others may differ) would be a good current line player, perhaps with an external clock.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#34
Do you feel the same for all turntables?
turntables are a wild card. as i mentioned above, many have outboard motors and belts which need to be isolated from the platter by a belt. those are not candidates for active unless the active is also isolated from the motors. then some tt suspensions can become an issue. or footers designed into the turntable.

anything throwing off it's own resonance the active would sense and try to compensate for would be problematic.

OTOH disc transports are inherently more elegantly built without the disc motor resonance being a major issue.

I will not enter such debate, as we would need technical details that Taiko Audio is not interested in releasing openly in a forum. However an active system has is not an ideal system - it creates its own sound signature. Humanly checked stiffness is a very poor indicator of mechanical behavior for audio purposes. The way mechanics affect the sound quality of CD transports is also poorly understood.

BTW, I work daily less than 100 feet away from an active platform - perhaps it affects the way I perceive my system! ;)
fair enough about the Taiko Tana measurements.

i disagree about 'it's own signature'.....it's the opposite......it has no signature other than reality.......unless you label more music focus, nuance, naturalness, lower noise floor as signature. none of my 5 Taiko Tana platforms changed the character of my gear other than in those things i mentioned.
 
May 30, 2010
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#35
turntables are a wild card. as i mentioned above, many have outboard motors and belts which need to be isolated from the platter by a belt. those are not candidates for active unless the active is also isolated from the motors. then some tt suspensions can become an issue. or footers designed into the turntable.

anything throwing off it's own resonance the active would sense and try to compensate for would be problematic.

OTOH disc transports are inherently more elegantly built without the disc motor resonance being a major issue.
I was only addressing those that can be completely put on an unique platform - the same case of the CD spinner. My question only considered this case.

It is known since long that the mechanical reading system of CDs is much more complex than just disc motor resonance - you also have a movable laser platform and a complex optical-electro- mechanical servo system to focus the laser. Even the disc motor is servo controlled as the disk speed in linearly constant, not angular. The disc angular velocity sweeps 500 to 200 rpm. Playing the challenging Pierre Verany test CD usually produces some mechanical funny noises, suggesting resonances in the whole system. All these affect sound quality by mechanisms that are not well understood.

BTW, my point is just that we have no absolutes or universal rules in the high-end.
 

dctom

Active Member
Jan 28, 2015
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#36
Streaming has matched and bettered CD in my experience. I guess if one is going to throw large amounts of money at an exotic CD transport maybe CD would compete again, however, I would not invest upwards of £15k in one. It is all about optimising the streaming function which runs my analogue very close now, at a fraction of the cost.
As mentioned above the quality of the recording is paramount. My carefully ripped CDs can sound better than the same album downloaded as HD files.
 
Likes: bonzo75

thomask

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2018
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#37
I found that SQ of streaming is strongly dependent on the quality of internet connection.

While in suburb of Seattle, I had some discontinuity of music through Youtube.

But I am quite happy with the sound out of Empire Zeus IEM using my Dell Gaming Laptop and Youtube source while staying in Seoul, Korea where internet connection is very stable and fast.
 
Feb 11, 2011
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#38
I think perhaps many spend too much money and time chasing new types of audio playback sources. Especially people without unlimited resources.

Perhaps the best approach is buying the best playback device one can afford, sticking with it, and spending your money improving the rest of your system.

The recording and mastering has always been the most important aspect of playback. There have been excellent LP and CD/SACD players available for quite sometime.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#39
I think perhaps many spend too much money and time chasing new types of audio playback sources. Especially people without unlimited resources.

Perhaps the best approach is buying the best playback device one can afford, sticking with it, and spending your money improving the rest of your system.

The recording and mastering has always been the most important aspect of playback. There have been excellent LP and CD/SACD players available for quite sometime.
I wont comment on how other people wish to spend their money. I can say your words about getting the best digital i could afford and not looking back is exactly what I did and i have not regretted it ever. To illustrate further, i did not upgrade piecemeal but took years to get what i thought was a true reference standard. In 17 years, i have had 2 digital sources, a Samsung DVD player and then a 2nd hand Zanden digital set up which i acquired deeply discounted. And i have been extremely happy doing exactly what you suggested...buy what i could afford...it took years after first getting the DAC to finally get the matching transport. And i have not looked back but instead...post Zanden DAC the CD collection has gone from 300 to 3000 CDs...and really enjoying the music.
 
Likes: Al M.

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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#40
I couldn't agree more w the principle of picking the source you most value, and putting most resources into it. So, if you're into Golden Age classical, jazz or rock, you could buy that dream tt or cdp, and dive headlong into building that collection, w maybe a cheap alternative source for the odd disc you can't find in yr primary source.

I pretty much expect to form most of my classical collection on vinyl, w some more recent avant garde on cd.
I have no real feel for streaming, would rather have pride of ownership of a physical library.

But I also have deep genre interests for stuff which is more and more only available streamed, and thus here is the dilemma, just how far to concentrate/spend on in effect a third source. I guess if I at least knew what my immersion into this side of things was going to amount to, I'd know how far to delve.
 

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