OK, make that AXPONA/Chicago then, but they'll have to move the show to the 2nd part of the year
Or ideally, LA would move theirs, which I would actually prefer.
CES is Dead, long live CES
- Thread starter jeff1225
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OK, make that AXPONA/Chicago then, but they'll have to move the show to the 2nd part of the year
Or ideally, LA would move theirs, which I would actually prefer.
With now 4 different links to audio reviews citing the death of the CES show, we seem to have a quorum. The best line is from Jonathan Valin:
"Unless CES makes an effort to promote itself to the public and becomes more affordable and relevant to the industry, Munich will take its place as the show of choice (if it hasn’t done so already)."
"Unless CES makes an effort to promote itself to the public and becomes more affordable and relevant to the industry, Munich will take its place as the show of choice (if it hasn’t done so already)."
I don't have a dog in this fight ... It seems that those who are in the business of making High End products think the show is just fine the way it is... I would go with their point of view. It is their livelihood at stakes there.
I went for about 15 consecutive years (as an industry representative for 10 years where we had demo rooms at the various high end venues).... but quit going about 6 years ago. The downward trend has been around for a very long time.. and seems to reflect the downward trend of the number of brick and more stores (at least in the US), and the overall interest in just 2 channel music. When I first started attending, there were probably 15 or 20 or more audio salons of various types and quality in Atlanta. Now, maybe 5 and most of those push multi-channel (read "home theater").
High End 2 channel audio has always a small niche market. Now it is just a lot, lot smaller.
Since I know virtually nothing about international markets, none of what I said above may apply to that customer base.
High End 2 channel audio has always a small niche market. Now it is just a lot, lot smaller.
Since I know virtually nothing about international markets, none of what I said above may apply to that customer base.
I don't really have a dog in this hunt either but am curious about the trends and potential impacts. Those could ultimately affect me and all of us in the USA who consume electronics.
Is CES really dying here? That's more-or-less rhetorical, since opinions seem to be all over the map... If so, along with the rise of Munich, does that signal a shift in the consumer electronics base to Europe and Asia? Does Asia have a CES-equivalent (I seem to remember a big Tokyo show)? Is this due to reduced consumer demand in the USA, or the loss of CE design and manufacturing in the USA? Or both? Loss of dealers, rise of the Internet, dearth of higher-end home stereos, etc.? The very high-end audio components seem to have focused on the uber-rich, with prices far outstripping inflation and moving well beyond the reach of even upper middle class folk. Maybe it reflects the overall trend in the country?
When I attended (that would have been late 1970's through the early 1980's) and the few I have tracked since, the amount of high-end audio fluctuated pretty widely. A significant part the show was focused on other electronics and related items, including some "mundane" electromechanical devices related to things like HVAC, spas, and the like, many having nothing to do with audio. Then as now I was focused on audio so I tended to neglect the other stuff. I am curious what thoughts there may be about the bigger picture CES paints on all those trends.
Random thoughts - Don
Is CES really dying here? That's more-or-less rhetorical, since opinions seem to be all over the map... If so, along with the rise of Munich, does that signal a shift in the consumer electronics base to Europe and Asia? Does Asia have a CES-equivalent (I seem to remember a big Tokyo show)? Is this due to reduced consumer demand in the USA, or the loss of CE design and manufacturing in the USA? Or both? Loss of dealers, rise of the Internet, dearth of higher-end home stereos, etc.? The very high-end audio components seem to have focused on the uber-rich, with prices far outstripping inflation and moving well beyond the reach of even upper middle class folk. Maybe it reflects the overall trend in the country?
When I attended (that would have been late 1970's through the early 1980's) and the few I have tracked since, the amount of high-end audio fluctuated pretty widely. A significant part the show was focused on other electronics and related items, including some "mundane" electromechanical devices related to things like HVAC, spas, and the like, many having nothing to do with audio. Then as now I was focused on audio so I tended to neglect the other stuff. I am curious what thoughts there may be about the bigger picture CES paints on all those trends.
Random thoughts - Don
All of the above.
CES as an international trade show is far from everyone else. It would be much more beneficial to other parts of the world outside of the USA to show in Munich which cost for cost is similar, and much higher promoted and massive attendance from both consumer and distributor/industry.
When you factor that in CES is organized under CEA which doesn't promote high end audio.
The number of US dealers if you used CES as a platform to find them are nil compared to years past so you might get just a handful of opportunities for a real expense (again compared to Munich)
Reduced consumer demand is largely why dealer numbers are dwindling or they have moved to HT as the focal point of business.
etc
etc
I see/hear more people in the High End industry taking the opposite position by simply not exhibiting any more (although some do show up as visitors). OTOH, neither of us has a statistically valid sample.
Just to be clear, when folks say "CES" they mean the high-end audio suites. Rest of CES was exceptionally well attended. Last year there were nearly 180,000 people attending. This year will likely be the same if not higher. Should CES itself go into decline, we would surely be in a recession.
With so many attendees, there will always be good number of people going to the audio suites. And that is what CES counts on and charges the premium to the exhibitors. As a packaged experience of high-end audio and the best consumer technology show, its appeal will remain for me for years to come.
So does this mean you won't attend next year? How about the people you quoted?
BTW, from sampling I have done, folks tell me Munich rooms do not sound as good. So whatever celebration you are doing about that, leaves me at a loss.
High end Audio is only a very small part of CES but it's the only part that many here care about. You can't argue that number of high end visitors and exhibitors have dropped to very small and I would say insignificant numbers. I agree with you that some of the rooms sounded very good this year but that doesn't change reality. As far as I'm concerned and this is also the opinion of others in our group CES is over for high end audio. Convention center attendees have nothing in common with high end and in general high end trade and general CE trade are different from one another. I can tell you that our two suites cost our group north of $70k in overall expenses for the privilege!
david
There is no celebration, actually quite the opposite as highend at CES was a special treat. We'll go to CES for the main halls and then I'll probably head over the LAMM room to hear the latest from the maestro.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
The death of the high-end audio part of CES, IMHO, is an indicator of a much larger problem. That is: high quality, bespoke, excellent consumer electronic product has no place in the industry group that is the CEA. When I was a kid growing up in Singapore, the aspiration was to grow up, study hard and work hard so that I would be able to wear a Swiss watch, drive a German car, drink French wines, and listen to American HiFi. If you visited CES, there are still hundreds of thousands of visitors. All of them looking over toys and gadgets from washing machines to drones to internet-connected mattresses....... all made in China, or Korea, or Japan.
A friend from Singapore came in, and told me that he was helping a Chinese company organize, manage and staff a booth on the convention hall. Their budget was $3million to introduce their company and their products to the USA. Seems that they discovered about CES after attending a CES (organized by CEA) in China. The show makes up a huge part of CEA's annual revenues, and he said that they are now planning two shows a year in China for 2018.
A friend from Singapore came in, and told me that he was helping a Chinese company organize, manage and staff a booth on the convention hall. Their budget was $3million to introduce their company and their products to the USA. Seems that they discovered about CES after attending a CES (organized by CEA) in China. The show makes up a huge part of CEA's annual revenues, and he said that they are now planning two shows a year in China for 2018.
$70K? We used to pay over a million dollars for the Microsoft booth at the main hall! $70K is chump change.
Are you going to go to Munich David?
No, haven't been interested in the scene for a long while Amir. CES is only a two hour drive for me and I get to meet up with some old friends like Lamm & Kharma otherwise I wouldn't bother if not for them.
Sadly it was much easier to make a million bucks in those days than it is $70k today...
david
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