Changing variables in a review
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
A change of sound was always a concern of mine. Interestingly, the ZenWave cords that I bought don't really change the tonal balance over stock cords, but bring a cleaner sound with less distortion and electronic hash, more subtlety and information (e.g., so much better on orchestral massed strings), with less congestion and more openness. All at otherwise pretty much "the same sound". What's there not to like? Especially the amp and preamp are just not well served with stock cords, and perform below potential.
I want to know how equipment works when dialed in to the best of its abilities. That means setting it up.
How about phone cartridge. Shall we say the last place the last cartridge fit on the tone arm is it. No movement. No adjustment.of the phono stage loading. Nothing. Of course that is ridiculous. So why praise a reviewer for setting up the cartridge properly but excoriate him for setting up the amp/speaker/room interaction properly. Does not make sense to me you want to read a review on an amp that was not optimized for the environment it was placed in. Just like with the phono cartridge.
And I'm curious what Lamm ships with as a power cord. Is it a ching cheng. If not, we need to ignore everything Peter says as he is not evaluating the amps as stock.
If you want reviews based upon a hobbled environment for the equipment because your confident your room is a mess and does not work, well, I guess that is your desire. I personally want the reviewer to set the equipment up as best he can so I can understand what the pieces full potential is.
And since this was somewhat on the subject of amps, would you like your 200 watt pure class A monoblock amp review performed in a living room feed by a 14 awg (15 amp) circuit that also feeds the lights and a fish tank pump. Or do you want to know how if performs in a purpose room with 8 awg (40 amp) wire on a dedicated 20 amp outlet. I don't like when people speak in absolutes, but I am absolutely positive the amp will play "Better" in the second scenario. Maybe you want the first because that is what you have. But you are not hearing what the amp is capable of. And in a review, I want to know the equipments ultimate capabilities. Not what it does when placed in some compromised set of unfortunate mistakes in setup.
Rex
How about phone cartridge. Shall we say the last place the last cartridge fit on the tone arm is it. No movement. No adjustment.of the phono stage loading. Nothing. Of course that is ridiculous. So why praise a reviewer for setting up the cartridge properly but excoriate him for setting up the amp/speaker/room interaction properly. Does not make sense to me you want to read a review on an amp that was not optimized for the environment it was placed in. Just like with the phono cartridge.
And I'm curious what Lamm ships with as a power cord. Is it a ching cheng. If not, we need to ignore everything Peter says as he is not evaluating the amps as stock.
If you want reviews based upon a hobbled environment for the equipment because your confident your room is a mess and does not work, well, I guess that is your desire. I personally want the reviewer to set the equipment up as best he can so I can understand what the pieces full potential is.
And since this was somewhat on the subject of amps, would you like your 200 watt pure class A monoblock amp review performed in a living room feed by a 14 awg (15 amp) circuit that also feeds the lights and a fish tank pump. Or do you want to know how if performs in a purpose room with 8 awg (40 amp) wire on a dedicated 20 amp outlet. I don't like when people speak in absolutes, but I am absolutely positive the amp will play "Better" in the second scenario. Maybe you want the first because that is what you have. But you are not hearing what the amp is capable of. And in a review, I want to know the equipments ultimate capabilities. Not what it does when placed in some compromised set of unfortunate mistakes in setup.
Rex
Nonsensical. When reviewing the new amp you replace the previous amp on your stand/rack. That’s it. You don’t optimise the amp BY CHANGING THE SPEAKER POSITION.
Now. When setting up a cart of course you position it correctly setting the VTA VTF etc etc but you don’t then move the speaker ( or amp) to get the best of the cart do you? No. Coz that would be just silly right?
Oh and your dig at Peter re non stock POS power cable is weird. I’m embarrassed for you.
LoL. Please. You do whatever you want to make your system sound the way you want it to sound. What is going on with people in this thread.
I think most amplifier manufacturers fall into @morricab 's #1. They may not be outright black or white deniers. But they mostly don't give a shit about cords.
Please. In order to get a review you change one component at a time. You don’t change the speaker position also when reviewing an amp cuz that would make two changes hence it’s an obsolete review and flies in the face of decades of reviewer experiences
but yes I agree on cords
I'd agree that establishing a baseline should be part of a reviewer's methodology. But the reviewer can and should try to optimize from there. As I said before - disclose what you did and preferably how any tweaks deviated from the baseline.
I definitely fall into the camp that you generally try to change only one component at a time - if only to try and hone in on what the differences are. Once you understand what the changes are, one then considers if there is 'promise' in the changes and how to benefit the most from them.
Amplifiers or speakers are the extreme special cases. If I were to change my speakers, can I just assume the former position will work? Of course not. Every amp sounds different and is going to change the speaker/room interaction. The heavier the component the more thorough I would be before having to pack it up and ship it.
Heck, even what the amps sit on will change the bass. When I put my M1.1s on amp stands I couldn't believe the difference in the bass, including perceived 'grip'.
But hey, whatever makes people happy. There's no perfect. There's only your distortion vs my distortion.
Amplifiers or speakers are the extreme special cases. If I were to change my speakers, can I just assume the former position will work? Of course not. Every amp sounds different and is going to change the speaker/room interaction. The heavier the component the more thorough I would be before having to pack it up and ship it.
Heck, even what the amps sit on will change the bass. When I put my M1.1s on amp stands I couldn't believe the difference in the bass, including perceived 'grip'.
But hey, whatever makes people happy. There's no perfect. There's only your distortion vs my distortion.
But he doesn’t. Did he change the front end too? What about the mains filter or power cords or loudspeaker cables. What about tone arm cable. Other interconnects? No. So by following your logic he should have tried everything to optimise the amps potential. But he didn’t.
In other words he totally compromised his review to suit the amp hence rendering the whole process a POS and IMHO his cred along with it. Question is why did he do it. I have my theories…
What we can learn from all of this is that audiophiles are much smarter then amp designers who deliver their amps with a simple stock powercord .
Plus that most audiophiles never can stop fiddling (and simply enjoy their systems / music)
Lucky for me I ain’t an audiophile. I’m a music lover
Why then is your nick name cable man ?
Many engineers “know” too much to keep an open mind for observation.
It wasn't a dig on Peter. Its a dig on those that say you have to insert a component into a system in a compromised way in order to write a review. Such as you suggest. I feel a review should be based upon equipment being setup to play the best it can. Anything less is an inaccurate review as the equipment did not meet its full potential.
I do believe compromised or not, you can get a good taste of a component sonic signature, when mildly out of optimum installation parameters. I am sure Marty had s good idea what was going on with the CH without adjusting his speakers. Just like he may tweak the placement in a few months after living with the Gryphon.
Observation like in wiring a couple of horn loudspeakers together and a bass speaker in a wooden enclosure without any measuring at all
and calling it " accurate " sound reproductionSimilar threads
