Comparative listening to grounding devices

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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United States
#1
The use of grounding devices has been quite popular in recent years. My question is whether anyone has compare the performance of any of these units as single device, not as a supplement to another device. My query is prompted by a recent review of Jacob Heilbrunn in TAS for the Nordost QKore devices.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-qkore-grounding-system/ms

Seems to me that if any such as the QKore are really effective, they could be a genuine value compared to more expensive devices such as Tripoint.

I presume I’m not alone in always looking for giant killers. Seems the price point hierarchy is:

Taiko Sechi $
Enrtreq $$-$$$
Nordost QKore $$-$$$
Tripoint $$$$-$$$$$

I’m less interested in “thought experiments” than actual comparisons, but have at it please. Please describe if the device was used in a front end component, or power amps
 
May 30, 2010
16,306
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Portugal
#2
The use of grounding devices has been quite popular in recent years. My question is whether anyone has compare the performance of any of these units as single device, not as a supplement to another device. My query is prompted by a recent review of Jacob Heilbrunn in TAS for the Nordost QKore devices.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-qkore-grounding-system/ms

Seems to me that if any such as the QKore are really effective, they could be a genuine value compared to more expensive devices such as Tripoint.

I presume I’m not alone in always looking for giant killers. Seems the price point hierarchy is:

Taiko Sechi $
Enrtreq $$-$$$
Nordost QKore $$-$$$
Tripoint $$$$-$$$$$

I’m less interested in “thought experiments” than actual comparisons, but have at it please. Please describe if the device was used in a front end component, or power amps
I was very skeptic concerning what we call "grounding" devices. Most of them are just "mysterious" devices, that we call "grounding" devices just because we connect them to grounding points in equipment, although we do not know what they really do electrically and how the they operate.

One point for me seems sure - these device only act because our equipment, mains and signals are imperfect. This implies that their action is not 100% predictable, as it will depend on equipment and conditions of operation.

In my system using the DCS Vivaldi stack the Qkore improved significantly the sound quality - more energy, subjectively more quite, apparently better imaging. So much that later I had to get a second Qkore6, as the Vidaldi stack alone uses four ground wires! I was somewhat afraid of mixing Transparent Audio power cables and Nordost Qkore, but it seems there was not any clear compatibly problem, and I now added the new Q8 power distributors.

No experience with other grounding voodoo!:)
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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#3
I was very skeptic concerning what we call "grounding" devices. Most of them are just "mysterious" devices, that we call "grounding" devices just because we connect them to grounding points in equipment, although we do not know what they really do electrically and how the they operate.

No experience with other grounding voodoo!:)
That just isn't true. You just won't walk up to the dead horse to see what killed it, because the stink is too bad.
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2011
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#4
Don't forget Synergistic Research. I am posting a monster review soon.
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
#5
C3312972-AC1F-485F-AD87-82ADBFD2F3B0.jpg
The use of grounding devices has been quite popular in recent years. My question is whether anyone has compare the performance of any of these units as single device, not as a supplement to another device. My query is prompted by a recent review of Jacob Heilbrunn in TAS for the Nordost QKore devices.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nordost-qkore-grounding-system/ms

Seems to me that if any such as the QKore are really effective, they could be a genuine value compared to more expensive devices such as Tripoint.

I presume I’m not alone in always looking for giant killers. Seems the price point hierarchy is:

Taiko Sechi $
Enrtreq $$-$$$
Nordost QKore $$-$$$
Tripoint $$$$-$$$$$

I’m less interested in “thought experiments” than actual comparisons, but have at it please. Please describe if the device was used in a front end component, or power amps
Marty,
These are all single point grounding systems. The only thing that matters is the resistance of the ground wire or as I have said the size of the pathway...the lower the better. From Nordost....

“In order to complete this comprehensive grounding system, Nordost has also designed a designated QKORE Wire, which is constructed to provide the path of least resistance to ground, for the stray, high-frequency, low-voltage potentials that can affect the performance of your sound system. The QKORE Wire is a mechanically tuned cable that utilizes Nordost’s patented Micro Mono-Filament technology, combined with extruded FEP insulation, and constructed with a 16 AWG, silver-plated OFC, solid core conductor. The QKORE Wire can be terminated with the following connectors: spade, banana, male-XLR, female-XLR, BNC and RCA (further termination options.”
Buy what ever you want but a good large stranded copper cable available on eBay for $40 is all you need.
Notice now the big rage now is big cables,which I have said for years. I use 00 cable.
 
Last edited:

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,753
944
208
Hong Kong
#6

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,753
944
208
Hong Kong
#7
The following is an interesting and detailed review on Telos GNR 3.1 Mini and QNR 3.1 Mini.
It's on a famous Taiwan hifi webzine.

Pls see if you can understand it with Google Translate.
The several photos on it are quite tale-telling already.

https://review.u-audio.com.tw/reviewdetail.asp?reviewid=1514
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,155
263
283
#8
Hi Marty, The thread Tripoint Troy Signature SE (dated 2013) has a number of comments from fans of Entreq and Tripoint. I have compared early generations of both and like (and use) both. After years of using them, i would say for outright clarity, Tripoint dollar for dollar is the winner. By contrast for rhythm and lower mid/upper bass purity of tone, Entreq is special, super special. I think you CAN get that with a change up in wires attached to Tripoint. But what the Entreq system did with one particular track in syncopated deep house electronic deep bass rhythm I have found hard to replicate since. However, overall for my tastes and system at that time (and today), that outright clarity was most welcome of all. BTW, BOTH systems get the sense of 'grunge' out of the way, increase 'ease' and 'naturalness'...and seem to make ALL musical signal more 'dense' as if you get more of the note through the system.

My comment from that thread is below fwiw. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...grounding-device&highlight=tripoint+troy+LL21 (Mine below is Post #77)

Tripoint v Entreq: And the winner is...

Actually, the winner is anyone who has good grounding in their system! Both designers make great products, and I have learned something about grounding, removing grunge from system. It simply makes the system sound less mechanical, and also allows all manner of microdynamic, low level information to surface easily. So that a long violin crescendo is no longer a straight line...you hear super super subtle ways the violinist actually paused or held back just a shade while driving the crescendo...as if to say, I am STILL going higher...and higher...and...even...a...little bit...HIGHERRR!!!. And that is music to me.

But back to the Shootout: Conclusion? I have bought the Tripoint Troy SE with Thor Power cable.

Entreq Silver Tellus: 100
Entreq Sillver Tellus + Atlantis Box: 115
Entreq Silver Tellus + Atlantis Box + Atlantis Cables: 155

Tripoint Troy SE + Thor PC (standard Tripoint grounding cables): 180 and rising still

I unfortunately did not have time to allow the Atlantis Box and Cables to settle in for more than a short while...but in the same period of time, the Tripoint had already surpassed the mighty Entreq system.

The Troy SE is beautiful workmanship, in 1 box (vs 2) and totally shielded so I can place it close to components and keep the equipment together. This is a personal choice...any of the above are absolutely great...I happen to have a strong favourite. And as for price, adding up the various Entreq elements and boxes, I realized the price was about the same.

Hope that is helpful. While I have made a choice, and shoot-outs are fun...I hope people take away from this my enthusiasm for good grounding and more importantly the designs these two companies are making which (for me) have been a great ear opener.
 
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gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
1,929
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148
#9
Kuro will do a very special ground box,at top level, where you can connect the ground of the amp and pre like others and you can also connect the ground pf the power that bring dirty in the system
The best system you can do for the earth is to do a big hole in the garden and put a bar of copper 2 mt down to the ground and around a Faraday cage,ecc,ecc and for who cannot do in this ground box you can connect the ground of the power and can have a similar result.

In his new power cable,he leaves out a cable to connect to this ground box

This box is separated in 3 part,one part for power earth,one for digital and one for analog ground.

After 2 months will be ready
Also the bolt will be in copper,and nothing is solder so the signal go directly in the copper plus also other special component

We see when will be ready
 

heihei

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
159
95
33
#10
I've compared Entreq and CAD, and they both performed exactly the same.....no impact!
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
#11
Lloyd has touched on a design difference between different single point grounding devices. A sink and a direct connection back to panel ground. One is more efficient than the other, but I think I the difference can be overcome by using a lower resistance cable. These two types can certainly produce the same results if you understand the grounding basics and engineering used in recording studios throughout the world.
The end result is always the same provided the single point grounding system is fully optimized.
Rudolf,
Sorry for the late reply. Last minute business trip to California. The break in has begun...At first, the dynamics and power seem like my amps had a major power boost. Really powerful detailed bass but always maintaining the ease and serenity as the volume goes up. I told Miguel I thought my walls had vanished. My room isn’t ideal but it sounded endless. I had a full day with this glorious sound and then I started noticing a more fatiguing sound. The bass lost definition and power and had an edgy sound to it. This cable is amazing and such a tease. So good at first but now the roller coaster has begun. My wife has been playing music as I’ve been gone and I’m excited to get home to hear it again. Miguel says it will all come back in time like you’ve mentioned. The Emperor MKII is special, I immediately heard something profound and know it will continue to get better.

Dave
Congratulations Dave, you are well on your way to the best grounding can deliver. A soundstage to infinity and a increase in volume are signs of extreme grounding which I have talked about for quite a while. I hope you like orchestral music, because you will get the feeling of a life size event. That may take some getting use to, but I became addicted to such realism. It took my parallel circuit a year to fully settle, but your system probably a month or two. Enjoy and you will learn to listen differently.
Yes, all sonic benefits will return and eventually in even more glory. However, you have to be (very, very) patient. My 10 feet ‘LA Emperor mk ii ground cables’ took approximately 500 playing hours to fully settle. You are using a much shorter length and as a consequence your burning in period will definately be (much) shorter. Don’t despair the next few weeks: you will experience some really nasty moments that will last many hours, days or even maybe a full week or so. But in the end you will be rewarded with a musical presentation you have never thought possible. I am sure even (very) experienced audiophiles / WBF members cannot fully grasp what we are talking about untill they have experienced Miguel’s awesome ground cables for themselves.



Hi Marty, The thread Tripoint Troy Signature SE (dated 2013) has a number of comments from fans of Entreq and Tripoint. I have compared early generations of both and like (and use) both. After years of using them, i would say for outright clarity, Tripoint dollar for dollar is the winner. By contrast for rhythm and lower mid/upper bass purity of tone, Entreq is special, super special. I think you CAN get that with a change up in wires attached to Tripoint. But what the Entreq system did with one particular track in syncopated deep house electronic deep bass rhythm I have found hard to replicate since. However, overall for my tastes and system at that time (and today), that outright clarity was most welcome of all. BTW, BOTH systems get the sense of 'grunge' out of the way, increase 'ease' and 'naturalness'...and seem to make ALL musical signal more 'dense' as if you get more of the note through the system.

My comment from that thread is below fwiw. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...grounding-device&highlight=tripoint+troy+LL21 (Mine below is Post #77)
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,155
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283
#12
Man, RogerD, you are a grounding guru!
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
#14
Man, RogerD, you are a grounding guru!
Thanks Lloyd and Bob. All I do is to tell fellow enthusiasts of what I have learned from my experience and experimentation. It is indeed nice to see others comment on very similar experiences. Grounding is a wonderful part of this hobby...I just put on a London phase 4 recording of Stanley Black and Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue...wow so emotional. Carry on with your journey to Nirvana..god has blessed us all.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,155
263
283
#15
Thanks Lloyd and Bob. All I do is to tell fellow enthusiasts of what I have learned from my experience and experimentation. It is indeed nice to see others comment on very similar experiences. Grounding is a wonderful part of this hobby...I just put on a London phase 4 recording of Stanley Black and Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue...wow so emotional. Carry on with your journey to Nirvana..god has blessed us all.
Amen to that!
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,114
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Northern NY
#16
I have experience only with Entreq. I’m undecided on what I am hearing with it in my case...a nominal effect. My Entreq gear is currently out of the system. If you want to delve into this stuff, I would recommend trying the Nordost system first. The cables seem economical too compared to Entreq and especially Tripoint. If you buy it from musicdirect, you get a 30 day return period. That right there is a good reason to try the Nordost unless you can get a no obligation demo from the other stuff.
 
May 30, 2010
16,306
1,258
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Portugal
#17
As long as people go on speaking about resistance it is just voodoo. Signals and noise are AC with an extremely large bandwidth - what matters is impedance, a much more complex subject.

The more expensive devices are electromechanical "grounding" devices - even less easy to understand.
 
May 30, 2010
16,306
1,258
420
Portugal
#18
View attachment 42798
Marty,
These are all single point grounding systems. The only thing that matters is the resistance of the ground wire or as I have said the size of the pathway...the lower the better. From Nordost....

“In order to complete this comprehensive grounding system, Nordost has also designed a designated QKORE Wire, which is constructed to provide the path of least resistance to ground, for the stray, high-frequency, low-voltage potentials that can affect the performance of your sound system. The QKORE Wire is a mechanically tuned cable that utilizes Nordost’s patented Micro Mono-Filament technology, combined with extruded FEP insulation, and constructed with a 16 AWG, silver-plated OFC, solid core conductor. The QKORE Wire can be terminated with the following connectors: spade, banana, male-XLR, female-XLR, BNC and RCA (further termination options.”
Buy what ever you want but a good large stranded copper cable available on eBay for $40 is all you need.
Notice now the big rage now is big cables,which I have said for years. I use 00 cable.
The Qkore cables are not big at all, on the contrary - according to Nordost what is critical is shape, conductor material and insulator. I tried some alternative much thicker cables while waiting for more QKore cables and they do not perform the same action.
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
#19
As long as people go on speaking about resistance it is just voodoo. Signals and noise are AC with an extremely large bandwidth - what matters is impedance, a much more complex subject.

The more expensive devices are electromechanical "grounding" devices - even less easy to understand.
Yes larger wire gauge has lower impedance.
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,636
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BiggestLittleCity
#20
The Qkore cables are not big at all, on the contrary - according to Nordost what is critical is shape, conductor material and insulator. I tried some alternative much thicker cables while waiting for more QKore cables and they do not perform the same action.
Micro does the Qkore system interface with the audio signal? Or does the wiring bond with other chassis by a chassis connection?
 

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