Coralstone Diamond on Koetsu arm

[Tango]

The opus is more dense in my system because has big mid and deep bass
Listening opus on bergmann and coral on td 124 with koetsu arm I prefer opus on bergmann but I never tried the 2 cartridge in same turntable
I will try
I like Atlas for his high also but I think is little less natural sound than opus and Coralstone

Today I had one hour, listening to Coralstone/SAT/AF1P with titanium platter and Opus1/SAT/Kronos Pro with Scps1, same music, jazz and vocal jazz, switching song by song, left right left.



With the Kronos combo. The resolution is higher. The presentation is in smaller scale but images of instrument are more dimensional and define..more 3D. A bit more space between instruments. Better energy swing and attack. A sudden sound of trumpet can really catch you off guard. Tighter bass. Just sounds liively.

Where as, the AF1 combo has larger presentation. Bigger sound. Width is left wall to right wall. More sense of depth too. Rounder and sounds more as a whole. This combo just sounds beautiful and delicious. You listen and it's like putting a spell on you.

Tone of the two combo is very natural. These two combos serve my purposes of having different tts and carts.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Today I had one hour, listening to Coralstone/SAT/AF1P with titanium platter and Opus1/SAT/Kronos Pro with Scps1, same music, jazz and vocal jazz, switching song by song, left right left.

View attachment 35596

With the Kronos combo. The resolution is higher. The presentation is in smaller scale but images of instrument are more dimensional and define..more 3D. A bit more space between instruments. Better energy swing and attack. A sudden sound of trumpet can really catch you off guard. Tighter bass. Just sounds liively.

Where as, the AF1 combo has larger presentation. Bigger sound. Width is left wall to right wall. More sense of depth too. Rounder and sounds more as a whole. This combo just sounds beautiful and delicious. You listen and it's like putting a spell on you.

Tone of the two combo is very natural. These two combos serve my purposes of having different tts and carts.

Kind regards,
Tang

GASP! GASP!

2 SAT's? 2 Coralstones?

after I get over the visuals of 2 SAT's w/2 Coralstones I must thank you for the excellent feedback on the difference between the two tt's. it's very clear on what each is doing with such top level arms and cartridges.

i'd say very useful feedback for others.

thank you Tang. well done and Bravo for the effort.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for this report! This is very interesting. What is the effective mass of the SAT tonearm?

You like the Coralstone on the SAT. Rockitman loves his Coralstone on the Graham Phantom Elite. Bruce B. loves his Coralstone on an SME Series V tonearm. Myles loved the Azule on a VPI tonearm.

Yet we often read that Koetsu cartridges sound best and have the best synergy with high effective mass, vintage tonearms. How do we reconcile this puzzle?

Would the audiophiles with modern tonearms who love their Koetsus like the sound of their Koetsus even more if they used high effective mass, vintage tonearms?

 

[ashandger]

Today I had one hour, listening to Coralstone/SAT/AF1P with titanium platter and Opus1/SAT/Kronos Pro with Scps1, same music, jazz and vocal jazz, switching song by song, left right left.

View attachment 35596

With the Kronos combo. The resolution is higher. The presentation is in smaller scale but images of instrument are more dimensional and define..more 3D. A bit more space between instruments. Better energy swing and attack. A sudden sound of trumpet can really catch you off guard. Tighter bass. Just sounds liively.

Where as, the AF1 combo has larger presentation. Bigger sound. Width is left wall to right wall. More sense of depth too. Rounder and sounds more as a whole. This combo just sounds beautiful and delicious. You listen and it's like putting a spell on you.

Tone of the two combo is very natural. These two combos serve my purposes of having different tts and carts.

Kind regards,
Tang

Many thanks for the fantastic feedback. SAT actually posted your image on their Facebook page today. Would it be possible for you expand on the difference in resolution between the 2 setups? You mentioned that Opus/SAT/Kronos had higher resolution so just interested in getting some additional feedback on this? Many thanks. Happy listening.

 

[gian60]

Incredible Tang
Congrats a lot

 

[MRJAZZ]

GASP! GASP!

2 SAT's? 2 Coralstones?

after I get over the visuals of 2 SAT's w/2 Coralstones I must thank you for the excellent feedback on the difference between the two tt's. it's very clear on what each is doing with such top level arms and cartridges.

i'd say very useful feedback for others.

thank you Tang. well done and Bravo for the effort.

Actually I believe, from what Mr Tang said, he has the Opus on the Kronos, and the Koetsu Coralstone on the AForce (with Sat's on both tables) ...However you slice it, two great vinyl playback systems.....
Cheers....

 

[Tango]

GASP! GASP!

2 SAT's? 2 Coralstones?

after I get over the visuals of 2 SAT's w/2 Coralstones I must thank you for the excellent feedback on the difference between the two tt's. it's very clear on what each is doing with such top level arms and cartridges.

i'd say very useful feedback for others.

thank you Tang. well done and Bravo for the effort.

Hello Mike,

I only have one Coralstone bought from Bonzo and now he wants it back..hahaha. He said it wasnt his cup of tea. Now he seems to think otherwise after he visited shakti.

The Opus is on the Kronos. I had it since first launched. But not until I put it on SAT that I really hear how good it could be. This cart is very quiet. With a system that is already very quiet it just brings out resolution like taking a picture with good camera. I read from Bonzo's blog about your system. You seem to like full extension of high and low not only mids. Your mids are probably already good so you like the GFS. I think the Opus would fit your system very well too. It is full body, very musical yet retains the extension of highs and lows. The Coralstone from what I heard in my system just sings beautifully in its own way with less true to source in my opinion (I might get nailed saying this.) The bass is not as tight as Opus for sure. I can say this while realizing that the SAT it's on is new and not broken in.

The sound of a wooden drum box that the musician sitting on using his hands pounding it just sound deep tight ending quick which is more real on the Opus. But with Coralstone, its not as tight and quick but more like a leather drum. This could improve over time. I dont know. Could be that my cart setup isnt as good as shakti...he seems to be super good at this. And it could be that the vintage high mass arm might be better match than with my SAT. But the Coralstone sure has its magic and quite addictive in my system.

My kid is up. I have to go. I will respond back more later.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Tango]

Would it be possible for you expand on the difference in resolution between the 2 setups? You mentioned that Opus/SAT/Kronos had higher resolution so just interested in getting some additional feedback on this? Many thanks. Happy listening.

I will try to put into words. But first lets be clear that we are not comparing apple to apple. I am only describing two different combos. The resolution I hear from the Kronos/Opus combo is almost tapelike (I have a Studer as reference too.) I was listening to Gary Goh's Anne Bisson 45. You can get the feeling she is singing into microphone. And the piano is place here, the drum there, etc. The sound is very clear not so rounding and lapping. You can sense the shape of voice and instrument more. You can hear into her voice, her breath, tounge movement. Saying this you have to have a very good system with very low noises whether it be electrical noises or other frequency interference noises, otherwise, i think it will sound mechanical and dry. The sound I hear is natural.

The AF1/Coralstone combo on the other hand sounds larger, fill up the room. Unlike microphone feed. Almost like it does its own interpretation of Anne's songs. Sound very very beautiful and smooth. She is right up front. Piano pops sweetly from behind. Other instruments layer nicely. Sounds are more round and overlap at the edge. Big coherent picture as one might say. It sounds very beautifully natural but less realistic in my opinion...like a picture that you use a photo aplication to arrange it more beautifully.

Other people may hear differently in their system. I like both interpretations from these two carts. They are different enough for me to keep.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Tango]

Incredible Tang
Congrats a lot

Gian, if we were neighbor, we would be having so much fun borrowing/lending equipments .

Tang

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Ron,
i heard in Munchen demonstration of Gryphon Kudo that are similar to Pendragon with their incredible bass tower
so consider also Opus 1 that has a incredible deep bass,better than all other cartridge,
bass will be wonderful and sound similar to Coralstone

Thank you, Gian. But if "Coralstone seems little better and natural on mid and on voice" then I would prefer the Coralstone.

(Interestingly, Albert Porter has the Coralstone and the Opus, and, while he said the same thing as you wrote about the midrange and the voice on the Coralstone, he also told me he listens to the Opus 80% to 90% of the time.)

 

[rockitman]

Well done Tang !!!

 

[bonzo75]

Just my thoughts - I heard 3 different Corals in 3 different systems, including on a Kuzma and an Ikeda, and did not like any of them at all. I also heard 2 RSPs, or RSP sigs, on SME 3012r and Reed and did not like them at all (Reed was ok, just another cart). They were also compared to other MCs they lost out brutally to

So, I was pretty disenchanted with Koetsu. In fact, I recently even texted Gian that the SPU a95 would be better than Koetsu for same goals - good body and flow, at the expense of some highs and details - at a lower price.

However, when I heard Koetsu Black upwards at Shakti's I realized that all those previous demos, I had not heard the Koetsu at all. So they were all invalid as far as I am concerned. And if you read what 853guy wrote on my Shakti thread, you will see there is an agreement in our thoughts that can be seen in our writings, because he too went through a process thinking Koetsu is not good enough until he heard it with with an FR on an idler.

So, what I am saying is, experiences are great to share, but for readers, you will never know until you hear, if Tang's and Albert's and Gian's system is optimized for Koetsu and/or Opus. If it's not for one or the other, the compare will mean nothing. As such, I doubt that the same arm being used for both carts can optimize playback of both carts.

When Ron texted me to ask how Koetsu compares to Zyx on highs, mids, and lows, I replied that I think Koetsu will lose out to all if you do an attribute by attribute comparison on highs, speed, detail, transparency, etc...however, what Shakti and I heard, and what 853guy seems to have emphasized too, and what Tang mentioned above, is the integrated whole. It needs to produce that front to back, side to side, dense integrated whole, where the highs, details, and speed are almost as good as your other MC cart - the highs, details, and speed will not be more but they will not less enough to make you reject the Koetsu, they will be there while you focus on the positive aspects of the Koetsu. This is what Shakti did with the titanium headshell on the FR, increasing details and highs to be sufficient.

As such, I do not think it is a cart for mids and vocals, but for that integrated whole, the flow, the density, the body, and the involvement. Actually, I like my vocals to be clear and transparent and soaring in the highs with good midbass chest. Examples of two compares, I preferred the highs of the Bernings to the Vitus on vocals, though I preferred the midbass fullness of the Vitus on the baritone. I preferred that Spectral made it seem the singer's mouth was wide open, as compared to the VTL which made it sound as if the singer's mouth was half shut (though had better harmonics). On the YG, the Winterreise Leider vocals sounded better on the colibri.

Another point - a Koetsu did come across as lethargic to me previously, but not so in an FR which seems to handle that energy well, possibly because of the lack of damping as Shakti described.

On Tang's reference to Mike's GFS and vocals, I think those vocals were just perfect - completely organic, magical, and well positioned and coming from the deep stage. Probably a combo of the arm and the cart again. But it is unfair to bring that system in because it is not a system for tradeoffs, it just excels on all attributes. I would be skeptical if a Koetsu would do well in his system unless he sets it up in some special way to tune in to the rest of his system, but then analog keeps surprising

 

[Tango]

Mr. Bonzo, the audio rating agency, summarizes it all.

Thank you
Tang

 

[bonzo75]

I really do not want to be the standard and poors that leads to a financial crisis - I heard the next one might be caused by audiophiles.

 

[ashandger]

I will try to put into words. But first lets be clear that we are not comparing apple to apple. I am only describing two different combos. The resolution I hear from the Kronos/Opus combo is almost tapelike (I have a Studer as reference too.) I was listening to Gary Goh's Anne Bisson 45. You can get the feeling she is singing into microphone. And the piano is place here, the drum there, etc. The sound is very clear not so rounding and lapping. You can sense the shape of voice and instrument more. You can hear into her voice, her breath, tounge movement. Saying this you have to have a very good system with very low noises whether it be electrical noises or other frequency interference noises, otherwise, i think it will sound mechanical and dry. The sound I hear is natural.

The AF1/Coralstone combo on the other hand sounds larger, fill up the room. Unlike microphone feed. Almost like it does its own interpretation of Anne's songs. Sound very very beautiful and smooth. She is right up front. Piano pops sweetly from behind. Other instruments layer nicely. Sounds are more round and overlap at the edge. Big coherent picture as one might say. It sounds very beautifully natural but less realistic in my opinion...like a picture that you use a photo aplication to arrange it more beautifully.

Other people may hear differently in their system. I like both interpretations from these two carts. They are different enough for me to keep.

Kind regards,
Tang

Hello Tang, many thanks for taking the time to provide great feedback. Wishing you many many hours of happy listening. Cheers. Ash

 

[advanced101]

This site is a bad influence. I ordered my Coralstone tonite. It will go on my Artisan 301, Ikeda 407 arm. Unsure on the headshell. I have the Schick carbon and an arche.

 

[DaveyF]

Just my thoughts - I heard 3 different Corals in 3 different systems, including on a Kuzma and an Ikeda, and did not like any of them at all. I also heard 2 RSPs, or RSP sigs, on SME 3012r and Reed and did not like them at all (Reed was ok, just another cart). They were also compared to other MCs they lost out brutally to

So, I was pretty disenchanted with Koetsu. In fact, I recently even texted Gian that the SPU a95 would be better than Koetsu for same goals - good body and flow, at the expense of some highs and details - at a lower price.

However, when I heard Koetsu Black upwards at Shakti's I realized that all those previous demos, I had not heard the Koetsu at all

When Ron texted me to ask how Koetsu compares to Zyx on highs, mids, and lows, I replied that I think Koetsu will lose out to all if you do an attribute by attribute comparison on highs, speed, detail, transparency, etc...however, what Shakti and I heard, and what 853guy seems to have emphasized too, and what Tang mentioned above, is the integrated whole. It needs to produce that front to back, side to side, dense integrated whole, where the highs, details, and speed are almost as good as your other MC cart - the highs, details, and speed will not be more but they will not less enough to make you reject the Koetsu, they will be there while you focus on the positive aspects of the Koetsu. This is what Shakti did with the titanium headshell on the FR, increasing details and highs to be sufficient.

As such, I do not think it is a cart for mids and vocals, but for that integrated whole, the flow, the density, the body, and the involvement. Actually, I like my vocals to be clear and transparent and soaring in the highs with good midbass chest. Examples of two compares, I preferred the highs of the Bernings to the Vitus on vocals, though I preferred the midbass fullness of the Vitus on the baritone. I preferred that Spectral made it seem the singer's mouth was wide open, as compared to the VTL which made it sound as if the singer's mouth was half shut (though had better harmonics). On the YG, the Winterreise Leider vocals sounded better on the colibri.

Another point - a Koetsu did come across as lethargic to me previously, but not so in an FR which seems to handle that energy well, possibly because of the lack of damping as Shakti described.

On Tang's reference to Mike's GFS and vocals, I think those vocals were just perfect - completely organic, magical, and well positioned and coming from the deep stage. Probably a combo of the arm and the cart again. But it is unfair to bring that system in because it is not a system for tradeoffs, it just excels on all attributes. I would be skeptical if a Koetsu would do well in his system unless he sets it up in some special way to tune in to the rest of his system, but then analog keeps surprising

Bonzo 75, as you are relating, there are many variables that can, and do, affect the sound of a particular cartridge..set up, phono stage compatibility, arm compatibility, age, climate, prior treatment ( if at all used), arm cable wiring, phono stage cabling, connector type at the headshell, and your mood, among others.
To say that a Koetsu doesn’t play great mids and vocals, but has a great integrated whole,is a little odd to me.
I have heard the same Koetsu model sound highly articulate and also highly veiled...depending entirely on one of the variables I mentioned above being a factor. Perhaps this is the issue you were hearing and failed to recognize?

 

[Ron Resnick]

This site is a bad influence. I ordered my Coralstone tonite. It will go on my Artisan 301, Ikeda 407 arm. Unsure on the headshell. I have the Schick carbon and an arche.

Congratulations! Now I can begin the interrogation!

Have you had any experience with Fidelity Research tonearms?

How/why did you chose the Coralstone over the Blue Lace?

What phono pre-amp dop you use?

Thank you!

 

[advanced101]

Haha.

No experience with FR. I was told that the Ikeda is the best new production arm for Koetsu. I don't doubt the FR 66 might sound better but haven't heard it. I had a Blue Lace on my Ikeda and can confidently say it was a good match. Also used it with an Arche headshell and Furutech silver leads.

I've owned a Blue Lace previously but stupidly sold it to help fund my Artisan Fidelity project. I would have just sold my other tables had I known that the 301 was going to end up being my favorite. I have heard that the blue lace is very similar with it being a bit more neutral than the Coral. I need a bit of extra texture and weight since my system is a tad lean.

I currently have an Ear 868PL (I love Ear) with a quad set of Amperex 7308s. I will move to the 912 next year.

 

[Tango]

Congratulations! Now I can begin the interrogation!

Have you had any experience with Fidelity Research tonearms.

When many people generalize Coralstone's sonic signature almost uniformly and then Bonzo and shakti said that when use together with the FR arm the combo could break the typical sonic signature of Coral, I cant escape to think this arm is not so neutral. The 3012 might be just a safer choice because David uses it for all carts he has meaning he must find it to be very neutral. When I choose an arm one of my top priority is neutrality sothat I can use with different carts.

Just a thought.
Tang