"Cordial Participation" in Terms of Service 2.

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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One thing I would like to say is however the moderator(s) will moderate, please no double standard. In several occasions I found my content were censured deleted but pretty much the same content (even in higher degree than mine) made by someone who might have a closer relationship to the moderator were not.
Yes you hit the nail on the head I've sensed that on more than one occasion on this site. :cool:
Well versed there Tang!
BruceD
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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No. Moderators are not (or should not be) psychology counselors. Work to put the moderator out of business.
May be I missed your mark. Being smacked on the hand for being a bad boy is not psychology.
Carry on.
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Solypsa

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WBF has had a mostly pleasant tone, a somewhat diverse array of topics, and a fairly vigorous analog section. These are the reasons I read and post here.

Lately the tone has darkened a bit...I am guessing at the hand of a few rather than many. So I am not surprised by this post topic.

Somehow 'group' moderation may be more efficient than a singular authority ( a community response if you will...which suggests a shared standard) and yet I appreciate the efforts of those that do.

Just as free speech is not implied nor is membership...some fora run their course. I hope this one stays alive for a bit....
 
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Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
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I really don’t know what you are trying to say here.
That is okay its intentionally cryptc.
Edit :Sticking your head in the sand usually leaves your bitt in the air.
 
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treitz3

Super Moderator
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Dec 25, 2011
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<snip> If I were a moderator, I would only respond to specific complaints through the complaint function on the forum. <snip>
Hello and Good evening, Peter. Unless we run across something on the forum that is egregious? This is pretty much what we do. You would be surprised at how many complaints we have simply ignored over the years. Many of them are petty. So petty or irrelevant that they don't even warrant a response.

Specific complaints are immediately addressed or discussed behind the scenes as soon as they are seen.

Tom
 
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treitz3

Super Moderator
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One thing I would like to say is however the moderator(s) will moderate, please no double standard. In several occasions I found my content were censured deleted but pretty much the same content (even in higher degree than mine) made by someone who might have a closer relationship to the moderator were not.
This should not ever happen IMO. If it has, please accept our sincerest apologies. In my book, this is a severe moderation failure and one that needs improvement.

With that said, sometimes it is easier to just wipe out a page or two of posts that got derailed rather than sift through each post, figure out where it started, who threw the first stone, etc. (sometimes the first stone was thrown on a completely different thread). We do have a life and can't just stop what we are doing and devote 2 hours to figure out what's going on, sift through the good and just delete the bad, respond to complaints, follow through with removing censored quotes, discussing behind the scenes the best option moving forward.....and it goes on and on.

So we delete entire sections of a thread, pages of a thread or the entire thread itself. It's not censorship. It's commonly referred to in the admin/moderator world as "cleanup on isle 3". A quick cleanup and back to business.

So, basically what I am saying is that *sometimes* a post may be deleted that was perfectly good. It's not that we censored it, it's that we don't have the time to straighten everything out as much as we would like sometimes.

Tom
 

Al M.

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You would be surprised at how many complaints we have simply ignored over the years. Many of them are petty. So petty or irrelevant that they don't even warrant a response.

Yup, some men never grow up to be men.
 

Tango

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Yup, some men never grow up to be men.
Some over there. But over here no some but a lot. It is a trend for boys grow up to be women. We have no problem with that.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Moderator is a crappy job but someone has to do it. I appreciate Ron made this thread to get feeback from people whose comments were censured and also from those who are in favor of past censure ship. I hope he use these feedbacks well enough to strike a "balance" in future possible intervention. If Denying feedback right out it only means this thread not worth having.

One thing I would like to say is however the moderator(s) will moderate, please no double standard. In several occasions I found my content were censured deleted but pretty much the same content (even in higher degree than mine) made by someone who might have a closer relationship to the moderator were not.

Thank you very much for your thoughts, Tang.

We definitely want to do our very scrupulous best not to have any double standard.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Also, when a thread goes somewhat off topic, so what. It's called a conversation. There is too much whining around here about threads not staying on topic.

Thank you, Al.

We probably should've been explicit about this: We have an informal view that the "owners" of their own system threads can advise us on how much off topic discussion they want to see on their system threads. We have deferred strongly to individual member preferences regarding this issue on their own system threads.

The thinking here is that members take quite some time and quite some pride in their own system threads, and we are happy to oblige their personal preference regarding the quantity of off-topic posts they are comfortable with on their own system threads.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Nah, I'm not claiming how anyone thinks. My point is that if you accuse someone's logic of being dumb, you better know what you're talking about or don't say that. Or better still explain where the logic is flawed. If you cannot do that then don't make the claim.

If you can generate a logical fallacy then you can understand why it is one.

Dear Tim,

I respect the analysis about logic and properly considered replies. And in a Mensa meeting or on a high school debating team I think that makes sense. But in the real world, few people are sufficiently introspective or self-reflective to conduct the analysis you are suggesting.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Yes you hit the nail on the head I've sensed that on more than one occasion on this site. :cool:
Well versed there Tang!
BruceD

There is no doubt that a double standard has been a problem. We will be more careful in the future.
 
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Chop

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2020
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Ron, I appreciate your efforts to maintain standards of civil behaviour and forum culture. I also appreciate you welcoming the debate in this thread. Its difficult but we have to struggle with keeping the friendly and intelligent culture we have built here. I was reminded in a work context years ago of the adage that
"If you don't actively try to develop the culture, standards & behaviours you want, you will just end up with culture and standards you don't want. And then its even harder to fix".

All you the site co-owner can do is apply and maintain the standards you want as you best interpret them. Whether I or anyone else likes how you interpret those standards is pretty irrelevant. The trick is to maintain those standards in a consistent way so people can decide whether they want to be part of the group.

Like other posters in this thread have pointed out, the biggest challenge I have seen is that the standards are sometimes not applied consistently. I have seen the same well known people make blunt or opinionated statements about others which would get a post from a lesser known - or worse, a lesser valued - member deleted.

All I would say to you is well done and thanks for all your efforts. Just try to avoid falling into accepting statements from some people "just because its them and its how they are."
 

Al M.

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Thank you, Al.

We probably should've been explicit about this: We have an informal view that the "owners" of their own system threads can advise us on how much off topic discussion they want to see on their system threads. We have deferred strongly to individual member preferences regarding this issue on their own system threads.

The thinking here is that members take quite some time and quite some pride in their own system threads, and we are happy to oblige their personal preference regarding the quantity of off-topic posts they are comfortable with on their own system threads.

Sure, Ron, but this is not just about system threads. Some people get overly annoyed at any thread going "off topic". That's the natural progression of a conversation, that's life, folks.

As for their own system threads, people can moderate those themselves. I personally have let some tangential discussions run on my thread over a good number of posts before politely intervening. Others may have less patience, and they can moderate their system thread accordingly, as you also seem to imply.

Of course, if people make provocative statements on their own threads, they should not be surprised if the thread does not neatly go according to "plan".
 

andromedaaudio

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I bet this thread will turn into a cable thread conclusion , ...inconclusive .

Regarding people who think they "own " a thread afaik you own nothing in a public forum .
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Ron, I appreciate your efforts to maintain standards of civil behaviour and forum culture. I also appreciate you welcoming the debate in this thread. Its difficult but we have to struggle with keeping the friendly and intelligent culture we have built here. I was reminded in a work context years ago of the adage that
"If you don't actively try to develop the culture, standards & behaviours you want, you will just end up with culture and standards you don't want. And then its even harder to fix".

All you the site co-owner can do is apply and maintain the standards you want as you best interpret them. Whether I or anyone else likes how you interpret those standards is pretty irrelevant. The trick is to maintain those standards in a consistent way so people can decide whether they want to be part of the group.

Like other posters in this thread have pointed out, the biggest challenge I have seen is that the standards are sometimes not applied consistently. I have seen the same well known people make blunt or opinionated statements about others which would get a post from a lesser known - or worse, a lesser valued - member deleted.

All I would say to you is well done and thanks for all your efforts. Just try to avoid falling into accepting statements from some people "just because its them and its how they are."


Thank you, Chop! I appreciate your thoughts. I agree with your comments.
 
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