CS Port LFT1 turntable added to the system

[Lagonda]

Lagonda man. Mike is in a total different league from me. He's been there done that on all fronts especially with tts. I am just a newbie frog leaping learning process with helps from friends with tremendous experience in different areas of audio.

What he cant match me is stupidity. He is smart.

Tang

And the one field where you outshine us all Tango, your sense of humor

 

[jazdoc]

On the base of the turntable, we use 40 kg of 500 million year old granite (granite).
Random vibrations transmitted from the floor surface will be suppressed by the weight and vibration damping characteristics of granite. Granite is used as a reference for making the mother machine (machine tool) as a stone surface plate. In addition, it is processed to the highest grade, JIS 0 ,grade flatness of 5 microns, and a distance of several microns. While keeping the floating platters are spinning.

Hmm. Everyone knows that free range, 489 million year old granite really is the sweet spot for audiophile granite....

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hmm. Everyone knows that free range, 489 million year old granite really is the sweet spot for audiophile granite....

 

[spiritofmusic]

Almost as old as Keith Richards and Mick Jagger.

 

[spiritofmusic]

500 million yrs old granite in the tt.
How long has the oil been around to go into making the vinyl played on it?

 

[jazdoc]

Getting this back on track....

I was lucky enough to have a short audition this weekend. The photographs don't do the table and preamp justice...they are beautiful. Really enjoyed the system sound with the Goldfinger. I emphasize 'system' because we didn't have enough time or long enough cables (great joke here) to try and isolate the individual contributions to the sound.

Congrats Mike and enjoy in good health.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Congratulations Mike. You have a nice combination of drive typologies.

thank you Peter.

you always ask the questions that go deep and have to wait 'till later' when i have time to craft a worthy response. and i enjoy you pushing me to think a little.

a year ago i was considering that i had really pushed my digital to the bleeding edge, and added a 3rd Studer A-820, my overall system performance was satisfying, but i had not really pushed my vinyl as much. i had almost bought the AS-2000 but realized that my NVS had areas that i would miss if i got rid of it to afford the AS-2000. i knew if i spent the money on the AS-2000 that would be it for my vinyl. so i passed. i wanted what the NVS did.....too. i knew i still had interest in owning a top tier belt driven turntable, and spend time with it. so my radar was activated. i wanted a very top level performer. quite a few did cross my view that i'm not going to mention, but eventually i caught wind of the CS Port tt.

How did you settle on the CS Port over some other high mass belt/thread drive tables?How did you settle on the CS Port over some other high mass belt/thread drive tables? Was it the linear tracking arm? I now have to go back to re-reading Mik's synopsis of the various tables he likes.

i'd known Mik since my early Rockport days, 2004-2005, and so i reached out to him and we did discuss the CS Port. his feedback was similar to what we've read on the forum. it was a turntable that had this special sort of sound, with a quality and style to match. and he knew i was enough of a tweaker and possessed the linear tracking feel to be able to get it to perform.

as far as other choices, i'd say i had some information, but also i put my trust in Mik on that score. i'd like to tell you i've had extensive listening time with all the choices but that's not true. unless you are Ked, how to you hear enough tt's in a helpful context to know what is doing what? answer; you really can't. there is an element of the 'eye' test involved where you look to see how a design 'feels' and whether it makes sense and the dots connect. even observe who built it and how that looks. not sure how to define it more. it was not only Mik, it was also just observing and seeing what looked right.

Mik and i do share our Rockport time, and he has plenty of turntables there that he has talked about in relation to the CS Port. and the things he related to me about the CS Port is exacly what i'm hearing so far.

Do you have plans to eventually compare the two phono stages?

sure. already have.....but too soon to really get into that. the CS Port phono was relatively modest in price, and Mik was quite impressed with it's performance for value. and he has many phono stages there to compare with.

i think he is right.

I'm also curious about the effect of the two different top shelves under your three turntables.

all three have the same Adona Zero GTX granite over cherry top plate, one supporting the Tana shelf. the CS Port has hard footers directly on the granite. CS Port offers a similar granite top plate and it's what it was voiced using. i'm very impressed with the frequency balance and natural flow i'm hearing.

the Saskia II uses built-in integral Stillpoint-like chassis interfaces, and again, the presentation really sparkles as it is. two weeks ago when my third Adona rack arrived and i had to tear apart my system (i had to move the other 2 racks 15" forward in the room to fit the 3rd rack), and at the same time my dart 458's were being shipped out to their new owner, i had a spare Tana TS-140 to try under the Saskia. so we tried it. i turned it on so the idler wheel was turning; i saw noise on the side readout of the Tana, then when i engaged the idler wheel and the platter started turning much more noise showing up on the screen. even when the platter got up to speed there was still lots of noise. so the Saskia is not a candidate for active. btw; zero noise on the NVS........ZERO.

and i have written extensively on the NVS on it's Tana on top of the granite.

You have many variables now to explore optimization for each LP.

yes, i do, don't i.

 

[microstrip]

Just noticed that the tonearm is an separate box - it seems unexpected for a belt turntable.

BTW, what is the retail price of this combo in the UK?

A great sentence from the CSport site:

"If you support the platter with one point and hit it, you will hear a metal sound, but if it floats due to air pressure it will produce a weird sound. By damping with the air film, integration with the base becomes possible, and unnecessary vibration do not follow. " (end of quote)

Thin films of compressed air acoustically couple the platter to the plinth - IMHO perhaps the most interesting aspect of air bearing turntables.

 

[XV-1]

Just noticed that the tonearm is an separate box - it seems unexpected for a belt turntable.

BTW, what is the retail price of this combo in the UK?

48K, but that includes the 20% VAT
Obviously a lot cheaper in Japan.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/04/cs-port-lft1-turntable.html?m=1

 

[Mike Lavigne]

48K, but that includes the 20% VAT
Obviously a lot cheaper in Japan.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/04/cs-port-lft1-turntable.html?m=1

current (yesterday) U.K price including the VAT is 52,000 UK Pounds.

USA list price for USA delivery from the UK dealer;

$57,995 USD plus $1000 for shipping.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Just noticed that the tonearm is an separate box - it seems unexpected for a belt turntable.

there are alternatives. however; the separate box is part of what takes things to the next level. attaching arms to the plinth is a (very slight) performance compromise. you can also use a 20mm soft material spacer (Sorbathane) between arm box and plinth to maintain distance precisely when your rack or floor are less than solid. or you tend to bump it.

A great sentence from the CSport site:

"If you support the platter with one point and hit it, you will hear a metal sound, but if it floats due to air pressure it will produce a weird sound. By damping with the air film, integration with the base becomes possible, and unnecessary vibration do not follow. " (end of quote)

Thin films of compressed air acoustically couple the platter to the plinth - IMHO perhaps the most interesting aspect of air bearing turntables.

the combination of a granite plinth, this particular air bearing design, and stainless platter is magic for the music.

the plinth and platter are ground to a very high tolerance to match and are essentially mated to each other. i vacuumed and wiped down those surfaces with alcohol to get the proper perfect air bearing action.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, further to yr sub-optimal situation running Saskia on yr active Tana, because of noise issues.

When I was testing the Kuraka active (Herzan equivalent choice) under my rim drive tt, it was certainly an impvt on what I had been doing. I really wasn't minded to try anything else. I relented, and took a punt on the passive Stacore Advanced, and was truly astonished it was a clear impvt over the active Kuraka, easily audible and across the board.

My guess is there was a two-fold reason. One, the Stacore is a purpose-built audio-oriented solution using a mixture of materials and pneumatics to produce it's stellar outcome.

But also the passive solution is more suited to tts producing vibrations, idlers and rim drives clearly in this category.

Mike, my guess is my outcome on passive far outperforming active on my rim drive may well be directly mirrored in yr situation. That is, yr Saskia not suited to Tana, but better suited maybe to Daiza, Stacore or any other well-engineered passive solution you will come up with.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, further to yr sub-optimal situation running Saskia on yr active Tana, because of noise issues.

When I was testing the Kuraka active (Herzan equivalent choice) under my rim drive tt, it was certainly an impvt on what I had been doing. I really wasn't minded to try anything else. I relented, and took a punt on the passive Stacore Advanced, and was truly astonished it was a clear impvt over the active Kuraka, easily audible and across the board.

My guess is there was a two-fold reason. One, the Stacore is a purpose-built audio-oriented solution using a mixture of materials and pneumatics to produce it's stellar outcome.

But also the passive solution is more suited to tts producing vibrations, idlers and rim drives clearly in this category.

Mike, my guess is my outcome on passive far outperforming active on my rim drive may well be directly mirrored in yr situation. That is, yr Saskia not suited to Tana, but better suited maybe to Daiza, Stacore or any other well-engineered passive solution you will come up with.

agree completely. the dots all connect.

what might be interesting is to investigate how many tt's have no measurable noise through their footers. maybe not many.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Kuraka also has LEDs indicating noise/vibrations. And these were never still as my Salvation played. The fascinating thing is that my tt sounded totally refreshed on the active Kuraka compared to it's normal home. But on the Stacore, that improved Kuraka presentation shown to be almost a euphonic presentation, w fuzzier bass and fatter mids. Warmth in audio is nice, but not when it's a colouration or synergy mismatch outcome. Going passive initially felt wrong as that warm fuzziness was stripped out. But confidence returned as disc after disc sounded different and individual on the Stacore.

Mike, I guess you could leave Saskia as is. It's Stillpoints on inert stand are doing their job. You could add a Daiza in there. Etc etc.

 

[Tango]

Dear Mike,

If you were to let me spend your money , I would stimulate you to try a Red Sparrow on the CS LT arm after you got a grip of things on the new tt. I think the RS would play to your system's advantage just like the GFS/NVS and may be more. I am pretty sure the RS can do your warp 11 without any knee shake. We have seen the RS not perform at its fullest in many systems, but with LT arm, fullest is more likely.

I can always learn something reading your adventurous journey. Your threads are fun and interesting...and very so often has a twist of controversy popping up along the line .

Kindest regards,
Tang

 

[Ron Resnick]

Mike, I totally understand your desire for a belt drive + linear tracking tonearm topology, and you bravely were willing to proceed with a new and expensive turntable without local designer or dealer support. Are you able to give us any insight into why you chose the CS over the VYGER, which also solves for the belt drive + linear tracking tonearm equation?

 

[djsina2]

Obviously a lot cheaper in Japan.

Looks like retail in Japan for the entire package with all the options is $35,200 USD.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A great sentence from the CSport site:

"If you support the platter with one point and hit it, you will hear a metal sound, but if it floats due to air pressure it will produce a weird sound. By damping with the air film, integration with the base becomes possible, and unnecessary vibration do not follow. " (end of quote)

either the above is true, or your comment below is true.....but not both.

Thin films of compressed air acoustically couple the platter to the plinth

no; those thin air films 'decouple' at higher frequencies. the granite plinth dampens lower frequencies.

their choice of the word 'integration' means that the plinth and platter integrate to reduce resonance. their tolerances and mirror image allow for thin air film for optimal effectiveness. the product of which is low noise. integration does not = coupling.

my money and ears tell me CS Port has it right. or....maybe.....i'm failing to understand your meaning. would not be the first time.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I totally understand your desire for a belt drive + linear tracking tonearm topology, and you bravely were willing to proceed with a new and expensive turntable without local designer or dealer support. Are you able to give us any insight into why you chose the CS over the VYGER, which also solves for the belt drive + linear tracking tonearm equation?

ok. 2 posts and now 3 PM's all asking me why not the Vyger? i guess that it's not going away, especially if i ignore it.

the Vyger came in second place. price was not a factor. i personally have only heard the Vyger at shows some years back a few times but honestly never paid close attention when i did. and had never heard the CS Port. so this was not about what i heard. it was the usual collection of small things and a feel for what i would prefer.

so i am not going to strongly defend my decision at this point, just acknowledge that the Vyger deserved to be strongly considered, and it was.

if CS Port had not run that ad in the September Stereophile this thread could have easily been about the Vyger. and i would still personally recommend the Vyger strongly based on my investigations. i have no illusions that that will satisfy the assembled masses on this issue. but i reserve the right to not comment further about it. not wanting to cast any negativity on any fine product i did not choose. and there are many.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Dear Mike,

If you were to let me spend your money , I would stimulate you to try a Red Sparrow on the CS LT arm after you got a grip of things on the new tt. I think the RS would play to your system's advantage just like the GFS/NVS and may be more. I am pretty sure the RS can do your warp 11 without any knee shake. We have seen the RS not perform at its fullest in many systems, but with LT arm, fullest is more likely.

I can always learn something reading your adventurous journey. Your threads are fun and interesting...and very so often has a twist of controversy popping up along the line .

Kindest regards,
Tang

Mik has mentioned the Red Sparrow as a cartridge he has had particularly positive results with on the CS Port. it did require considerably tweaking to attain that. lots of energy and uber detail.

so it is on my short list.

my piggy bank needs to recover first before another cart is a reality, which will be a bit of time. i did this tt + phono, and went to catch my breath and the dart 458 -> 468 thing fell out of the sky into my lap. so that pretty much broke poor piggy. but i'm a happy pauper in any case.