But you are also very high up there in that regardAnd the one field where you outshine us all Tango, you sense of humor
CS Port LFT1 turntable added to the system
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
LOL. you absolutely made the right decision. personally I find the Vyger ugly as sin.
The CS-Port - Japanese build quality, exquisite Japanese engineering in a smaller logical functional form factor.
no vacuum hold down makes listening to music so much more enjoyable imo.
This table will outlast you.
And it looks so much cooler!!
I want one
Curious, what do you mean by this? I’m using vacuum hold down for the first time and now can’t imagine having a table without it.
putting the record on, putting the record clamp on, pressing the vacuum on, start the table and finally listening - then reverse to take the record off. PITA if you ask me and the main reason why I have never considered the Air Force tables.
vs
put the record on the platter and listen.
my two Jap DD tables get to 33 in less than a second and my belt drive I leave spinning when listening.
ps, I have an ORB record flattener so no issue with dished/warped vinyl.
No requirement for vacuum or record weights - they all add their own coloration.
YMMV
So Mike, on the subject of vacuum hold down...all three of yr tts don't feature this. Do you feel you're missing out at all? Had you gone Vyger, you'd at least have had one tt w this function. Maybe you're not a fan.
either the above is true, or your comment below is true.....but not both.
no; those thin air films 'decouple' at higher frequencies. the granite plinth dampens lower frequencies.
their choice of the word 'integration' means that the plinth and platter integrate to reduce resonance. their tolerances and mirror image allow for thin air film for optimal effectiveness. the product of which is low noise. integration does not = coupling.
my money and ears tell me CS Port has it right. or....maybe.....i'm failing to understand your meaning. would not be the first time.
No Mike, both are true - the platter does not ring like a bell because it is acoustically coupled to plinth. The energy from the from the tap is drained to the plinth. My point is that the thin air film does not isolate, as we usually expect from air, but couples the platter to the plinth. And yes, it is the right way to dampen the platter!
in a perfect world you would have the minimalist aesthetic of the CS Port LFT1 including vacuum hold down. with the choice to not use vacuum without compromise.
it is not a perfect world, and adding vacuum compromises/complicates things. especially makes your air supply box more complicated and compromises the platter and air bearing. i prefer the precision and elegance of 'without'.
OTOH when looking at the Vyger i did like that it had vacuum, while thinking did that compromise things? how much better might it be without it? would it cause issues? feedback from owners was that it was a well worked out system.
i recognize that there are pressings where vacuum could offer an advantage. 8 years with the Rockport Sirius System III taught me that. but then when the NVS was sitting right next to it without it, i did not find that vacuum was essential.
so there is no simple answer. and would not quibble with any opposite viewpoint. i can make both cases.
I see... Maybe takes 2 sec to activate and deactivate the vacuum. No clamp on the AF. Platter is left spinning on record changes too. I also have the ORB flattener since warped vinyl drives me crazy, but there is no substitute for vacuum. The best feature ever IMHO.
Another way to dampen a platter is through mass. For instance, the AS2000 platter seems much heavier and it too is supported by a thin layer of air. I wonder if David thinks of the air bearing as a way to dampen the platter, or primarily as a way to reduce bearing noise, or something else.
When I think of "acoustically coupled", I think of some speaker/room boundary scenarios with front corners playing a role in bass reproduction.
I also think of the layer of air under linear tracking arm wands. I always thought of its primary function as reducing friction. Is it possible that it also acoustically couples the arm to the rail and dampens arm resonances? I'm just thinking out loud here and maybe just full of hot air.
Mike, no argument from me. My tt is so far removed from hold down concept, w lps sitting freely on pods, effectively 0.5" above platter surface. I was just intrigued if you felt you were missing out.
I can't believe i missed this thread. I didn't recognise the TT so didn't click on the thread. Congrats Mike. Looks great and I bet it sounds lovely too.
The choice of gasket material and its platter on a vacuum platter are so important as it has to an integral part of the platter design, the vacuum facility is only one factor to consider. The gasket has a sound of its own combined with the platter if one has a vacuum deck you can hear the vacuum on and off but one can also hear the removal of the gasket. Just the foreign material of the gasket makes even a bigger difference then the application of the Vacuum.
Even a slight imperfection the seal will result in an audible change is the sound. I have ripped many seals of of platters in the past and experimented with different rubbers. On the rockport one has a small neoprene washer at the centre of the platter this material has a significant impact on the sound even if the vacuum is off. Most of us think its only the vacuum application that is having an overall impact. It is the choice of materials relating to the vacuum system is as important hence why some vacuum systems have a bigger impact than others. Wrongly chosen materials will have a detramental effect on the performance of a turntable. The removal of a vacuum system is not always a compromise and in some instances a better solution, as implementation is so critical. One has to look the audible differences of matts and to lesser extent clamps. And why certain matts and clamps work better with certain platter materials.
Even a slight imperfection the seal will result in an audible change is the sound. I have ripped many seals of of platters in the past and experimented with different rubbers. On the rockport one has a small neoprene washer at the centre of the platter this material has a significant impact on the sound even if the vacuum is off. Most of us think its only the vacuum application that is having an overall impact. It is the choice of materials relating to the vacuum system is as important hence why some vacuum systems have a bigger impact than others. Wrongly chosen materials will have a detramental effect on the performance of a turntable. The removal of a vacuum system is not always a compromise and in some instances a better solution, as implementation is so critical. One has to look the audible differences of matts and to lesser extent clamps. And why certain matts and clamps work better with certain platter materials.
thank you Howie.
CS Port is very obscure, below most people's radar, as is their turntable. i'm sure many passed over the thread as not relevant.
and yes, it does sound lovely.
Mike
Probably both and something else!
IMHO the plinth is as critical as the platter and is tuned for that particular platter and interface.I am using the words in a more general sense - mechanically coupled in the audio band. And surely the air couples the arm to the rail - the first time I read about it was in a webpage from an linear tracking tonearm (I am not sure who, sorry). It is one of the reasons changing air pressure significantly modifies the sound. The idea that air bearings are completely isolated is an audio myth. I am sure David will chime on this subject!
Great deck Mr. Lavigne,
Personally I feel you miss little not having vacuum suck down,the CS Port is more of a refinement than an all out assault.
Ultimately the almost silent operation of the compressor must be very enjoyable?
Once more you push the envelope whilst stroking the Gregory,
Bravo Sir,kindest regards,G.
Personally I feel you miss little not having vacuum suck down,the CS Port is more of a refinement than an all out assault.
Ultimately the almost silent operation of the compressor must be very enjoyable?
Once more you push the envelope whilst stroking the Gregory,
Bravo Sir,kindest regards,G.
We do not need a SWOT analysis to know that we urgently need a member from Japan in WBF!
i've owned lots of turntables, some very complicated, over the years. i've never counted on any support for them. the only one that really needed much was the Rockport and i did have a few phone calls with Andy Payor over the years i owned it. but it's degree of complication dwarfed any other tt i've owned. once i understood how it worked i was ok going it on my own pretty much. not that i ever had the level of understanding about it that Mik has.
i will note that between my Basis 2500 and Sirius System III, for a year i owned a 'wounded' Sirius II SE. it had been 'abused'; not shipped correctly by a previous owner and the motor was compromised, and the arm had had to be repaired. i had to find solutions to problems to get it to work, which i did. that experience was interesting, but did not slow me down in terms of being intimidated by a complicated turntable. obviously i jumped right on the System III when it was there.
as far as the CS Port turntable and phono pre, i am very comfortable with the passion and commitment from the company CS Port, and have emailed with their principle Toshimichi Machino, and have zero concern about this issue. looking at the product in person, it's really well done and thought through.
And Mik has been ever available as my U.K. CS Port dealer extraordinaire, with amazing insights and coaching as to how to get the most from the CS Port. not sure it would be any better if he was on the East Coast or California.
can't say how other people might feel buying from out of country, but in this case for me i'm all good.
obviously anyone who might want to visit and see and hear the CS Port for themselves is welcome and they can observe whether this would be a concern for them. it's not for me.
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Mike, spoke to Mik recently, and his enthusiasm for the CS Port is infectious. He was also chatting about the development of the Rockport.
What was it about that 1990s apogee for analog technology? Fruition of world's greatest ever tt ie the Rockport, the Studer you own. For my part, Barco Cine 9 crt projector and take no prisoners Pioneer HLD X0 laserdisc player. The big McClaren supercar that many feel is more bleeding edge than the Veyron. Etc etc. We will never see these days of analog superiority again.
What was it about that 1990s apogee for analog technology? Fruition of world's greatest ever tt ie the Rockport, the Studer you own. For my part, Barco Cine 9 crt projector and take no prisoners Pioneer HLD X0 laserdisc player. The big McClaren supercar that many feel is more bleeding edge than the Veyron. Etc etc. We will never see these days of analog superiority again.
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