DAC comparison and recommendation request

[Zappadaddy]

Aries Cerat Kassandra II - At the same time I was able to pick up a Kassandra and was trying it out. I liked it much more than the Horizon so it made it easy to let that go. The Kassandra is by far the most unique sounding DAC I've owned. It is, in a word, intoxicating. All other DACs just did a little something to the songs I listened to. "Oh hey, I've never heard that sound effect before." "Oh wow, I've never heard the bassline like that before." "Oh those echoes seem to go on forever." Stuff like that. The Kassandra though, it's just totally different. It was as if I was listening to remixed versions of well-known tracks. Someone I talked to referred to the Kassandra's characteristic as "tonal density" and that must be where the magic is. It's not a warm sounding DAC exactly, but it has the characteristics of warmth. Thick without being slow. Dense without being heavy or muddy. Enveloping. And across a variety of music genres, everything just sounded great. Electronic/Dance was especially wonderful. And it had that PRAT toe tap factor! I nodded along with everything. If there was one drawback, it was a lack of low bass like the Nagra. I did everything I could and just couldn't solve it. It just didn't go as low as the MPD-8. But was it such a joy to listen to in its own way! What to do???

So, in the end, it was about compromise. I know there's no 'perfect' DAC. I was just hoping to be blown away by something. "This is it" kind of thing. But that never happened. The closest was the MPD-8 and I snapped that up. And I loved so much about the Kassandra. Which one would I keep? I started having visions of keeping both. They're so different that I could see firing up one on one day and another on another day and being totally happy. But space, practicality and financial considerations made that a non-starter. Incidentally, I do know someone that has both. I wondered when I saw them why he had two high end DACs? I get it now!

Final decision time. Which could I happily live with? I finally decided on the Playback Designs MPD-8. In my opinion, and I don't mean this to be harsh, I think it's a jack of all trades, master of none based on my experience. Soundstage, bass, articulation, speed, etc. have individually been done better by separate DACs. But this DAC does all of those things at 80-90%+ of those individual qualities but all together. And I can't think of a single real weakness it has. Additionally, with FPGA architecture Andreas can introduce firmware improvements down the line which is a plus. And I can always add the X-4 USB interface (which I will) to improve things. Ultimately I felt like this DAC could be a cornerstone for my system and I could build around that. So I'm done!

Whew. Now I'll look into some more power amp options and do some research on speakers. Why? Because I'm sick and this never ends. But at least it's fun!

Apologies again to Vincent once more. Sorry for the hassle and I wish I could have tried totaldac but the timing just didn't work out.

If you've read to the end, thanks again for coming on this journey with me!

Great story of your path with dacs. Maybe should try Kassandra Signature?

 

[RaChiK]

Excellent write up. Glad you went through the journey yourself without relying on hear say. I got exact same feeling when I heard Aries cerat Kassandra reference. It was just intoxicating and engaging too. In my system, I have plenty of bass, and Kassandra was just perfect all rounder. It just brings out “music” without going analytical. Yes, it just gives tonal density or magic which is unlike anything else and hard to describe and explain to anybody who has not listened to it. I have not listened to MPd-8 but happy that you did it yourself and came to that conclusion.

 

[Tapatrick]

Great story, that just popped up in my inbox.

Just thought I’d let you know that after 10 years of trying to solve my irritation with digital music, I have searched and tried all the fashionable and tweak trends, (too many to list here). I have now settled on the EC designs NL, SX DAC.

This innovative DAC /Amp with high sensitivity full range speakers, has convinced me that the problem with digital music is the DAC all along and all the tweaking is unnecessary. This solution is even source independent which is heresy to suggest in the audiophile world with folks willing to buy $40,000 music servers. In my opinion the SQ from this DAC from EC Designs is no contest compared to other solutions.
YMMV of course but suggest you do not ignore their offerings if you are seriously looking for audio satisfaction.

I am not affiliated to them in any way.

 

[Rexp]

Great story, that just popped up in my inbox.

Just thought I’d let you know that after 10 years of trying to solve my irritation with digital music, I have searched and tried all the fashionable and tweak trends, (too many to list here). I have now settled on the EC designs NL, SX DAC.

This innovative DAC /Amp with high sensitivity full range speakers, has convinced me that the problem with digital music is the DAC all along and all the tweaking is unnecessary. This solution is even source independent which is heresy to suggest in the audiophile world with folks willing to buy $40,000 music servers. In my opinion the SQ from this DAC from EC Designs is no contest compared to other solutions.
YMMV of course but suggest you do not ignore their offerings if you are seriously looking for audio satisfaction.

I am not affiliated to them in any way.

What is your transport? I use a laptop and even the change from Wifi via router to wifi via mobile phone hotspot dramatically effects the sound of streaming.

 

[Tapatrick]

What is your transport? I use a laptop and even the change from Wifi via router to wifi via mobile phone hotspot dramatically effects the sound of streaming.

Now I use a MacBook Pro to stream Tidal (and an Audiolab 6000 CD player). Feeding the EC Designs SX straight into Omega Super Alnicos. Dead simple, sweet, dynamic, transparent and sublime.

In the past 10 years I’ve tried Antipodes EX music server, a Laufer memory player, fanless NUCs with audio Linux and Paul Hynes power supplies.

I’ve switched different ram chips, endless cable tweaks, different capacitors and customised power supplies, and I even had a lengthy period of playing around with Ian Canada boards, reclocking, special crystals and DIY customised SD card players.

I’ve tried PSAudio Junior and Aqua DACs plus others. It was all a lovely (expensive) and fun journey but none of this matters now with the EC Designs NL SX DAC. The problems with digital has always been to do with the DAC conversion.

You will probably not believe me but just letting you know if you are fed up with the never ending journey.

 

[Rexp]

Now I use a MacBook Pro to stream Tidal (and an Audiolab 6000 CD player). Feeding the EC Designs SX straight into Omega Super Alnicos. Dead simple, sweet, dynamic, transparent and sublime.

In the past 10 years I’ve tried Antipodes EX music server, a Laufer memory player, fanless NUCs with audio Linux and Paul Hynes power supplies.

I’ve switched different ram chips, endless cable tweaks, different capacitors and customised power supplies, and I even had a lengthy period of playing around with Ian Canada boards, reclocking, special crystals and DIY customised SD card players.

I’ve tried PSAudio Junior and Aqua DACs plus others. It was all a lovely (expensive) and fun journey but none of this matters now with the EC Designs NL SX DAC. The problems with digital has always been to do with the DAC conversion.

You will probably not believe me but just letting you know if you are fed up with the never ending journey.

I never doubt people's hearing experience. How are you connecting the Mac to DAC? Are you running the Mac off battery or mains?

 

[hopkins]

You will probably not believe me but just letting you know if you are fed up with the never ending journey.

Then he won't believe me either

 

[Tapatrick]

I never doubt people's hearing experience. How are you connecting the Mac to DAC? Are you running the Mac off battery or mains?

The MacBook Pro is connected to mains and with a toslink cable into a 3 way splitter, then one cable into the DAC. However as I’ve said it doesn’t make any difference what source I use now or how it’s connected. This has not been the case before, that’s why I had kept changing, tweaking and searching - then eventually settled on the Laufer memory Player. Now it’s obsolete and I prefer ease of use. The EC Designs SX Dac/amp is truly ground breaking.

 

[Rexp]

The MacBook Pro is connected to mains and with a toslink cable into a 3 way splitter, then one cable into the DAC. However as I’ve said it doesn’t make any difference what source I use now or how it’s connected. This has not been the case before, that’s why I had kept changing, tweaking and searching - then eventually settled on the Laufer memory Player. Now it’s obsolete and I prefer ease of use. The EC Designs SX Dac/amp is truly ground breaking.

FYI Mac doesn't play Tidal bit perfect unless you set the output to match the file you're playing:

 

[hopkins]

FYI Mac doesn't play Tidal bit perfect unless you set the output to match the file you're playing:

Wrong. Check out the comments section of the video.



Note: in his tests, he is only checking for the fact that the tracks are not being re-sampled, which is not sufficient to claim it is "bit perfect". Some may see this as a technicality, but I still wanted to point it out

 

[Tapatrick]

FYI Mac doesn't play Tidal bit perfect unless you set the output to match the file you're playing:

Hmmm.. apparently not.

 

[vermaxis]

To everyone who followed this post and contributed, I just thought I'd let you know that I started an power amp post.

Would appreciate your recommendations here as well!

Neutral power amp recommendations?

 

[ctsooner]

I missed what you got for your DAC.

 

[thedudeabides]

Great story of your path with dacs. Maybe should try Kassandra Signature?

Hi Zappa,

Love your site name. No critism intended but I think the OP has gone above and beyond in auditioning the various options, is probably exhausted by his efforts and just wants to listen to music. I do applaud his diligence and am happy that he found a product that addresses the majority of his listening biases. Best.

 

[Ugc]

Hello ,
I want to upgrade my dac that I am currently using ( Totaldac d1-seven). There is a good opportunity for the msb reference model. Do you think this will be a big difference?
Has anyone compared the two models?

 

[vermaxis]

I missed what you got for your DAC.

I went with the Playback Designs MPD-8

 

[Nuforce]

FYI: This is what I plan to get: Audio-GD R7 HE MK 3 - R2R, built in power regeneration, I2S via HDMI input, "transmits audio signals in the current rather than voltage domain"......etc. Link to review:

Gramophone Dreams #66: Audio-GD R7HE MK2 D/A processor

Whenever I install a new, in-for-review DAC, after some amount of spaced-out not-listening listening I find myself just sitting there, being happy I got the damn thing working. Once I recover from the stress of installation, my brain begins, without prompting, to examine the character of sound...

www.stereophile.com

Excerpt:

".....I'm telling about the Mola Mola and May DACs because Audio-GD's R7HE MK2 presents music in a manner that I think combines the solid, understated intensity of the May with the uberclear dynamism of the Tambaqui. The result is digital playback that materializes what's buried in the bits in a manner I find intoxicating....".

Note that there is now a MK. III version.

I've owned the Mk2 of this and whilst initially it really impressed, eventually it became apparent that the sound had a tiny smidge of artificality to it. Not glare, it just didn't sound that 2% more natural than my Acuhorn R2R T with EML 45 mesh globes.

I sold the AGD and still have the Acuhorn. You can't beat a triode output stage IMO.

Just to add, the AGD was used with a highly accurate -118dBc @ 1Hz master clock, but the Acuhorn still sounded better.

 

[Cellcbern]

I've owned the Mk2 of this and whilst initially it really impressed, eventually it became apparent that the sound had a tiny smidge of artificality to it. Not glare, it just didn't sound that 2% more natural than my Acuhorn R2R T with EML 45 mesh globes.

I sold the AGD and still have the Acuhorn. You can't beat a triode output stage IMO.

Just to add, the AGD was used with a highly accurate -118dBc @ 1Hz master clock, but the Acuhorn still sounde

I would love to have a DAC with a triode output stage that also accepted DSD from an SACD and converted it directly to analogue the way the AGD does (I bought a used MK, 2). Not aware of any including the the Acuhorn R2R T which, if I am understanding what's on he website, converts DSD ro PCM before converting the signal to analogue.

 

[Nuforce]

I would love to have a DAC with a triode output stage that also accepted DSD from an SACD and converted it directly to analogue the way the AGD does (I bought a used MK, 2). Not aware of any including the the Acuhorn R2R T which, if I am understanding what's on he website, converts DSD ro PCM before converting the signal to analogue.

Not an expert on DSD but doesn't Lampizator do what you suggest?

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Yes.

IMO the MPD-8 is the clear winner, I've owned one for five years. Agree with everything in this video.

Having owned the Playback Design for just over 4 years, I previously had the Merlot before transitioning to the MPD-8 Dreams Series. I utilized it alongside the MPT 8 SACD Player, connecting both via the Plink Connector. I used to actively discuss on various forums how this DAC handled music sweetly and fatigue-free, preferring it over the various MSB DACs I had owned during my time as an MSB Distributor. The Playback Design DAC rekindled my enjoyment of digital music with its all-encompassing performance.

Despite the excellence of the Playback Design DAC, I eventually upgraded to the Aries Cerat Kassandra, which, in my opinion, sounded even better. I have now placed an order for the Aries Cerat Ithaka DAC, although I acknowledge that this may exceed most people's budgets. Currently, the Kassandra Ref MK2 resides in my room, priced similarly to the Playback Design. I can confidently affirm that this transition led me to use my digital setup more frequently than my vinyl system. While both DACs are exceptional, the Aries Cerat offers a heightened sense of emotional engagement and musicality.

Before transitioning to the PD system a few years ago, I extensively compared MSB to Playback Design DACs. Even now, I can assert with confidence that within the realm of solid-state DACs, Playback Design remains my favourite over MSB or DCS, as I find the latter a bit too digitized for my preferences.