DAC comparison and recommendation request
- Thread starter vermaxis
- Start date
Hi @Cellcbern ,
out of curiousity I would like to ask you if you got this DAC and if you like to share some impressions.
Thank you
I bought a pre-owned Mk 2 which arrived a couple of days ago. It is currently breaking in, connected to my recently purchased PS Audio Perfectwave SACD transport via a Pink Faun I2S HDMI cable. I only use physical media. Bought this combo to ultimately replace my aging Modwright modified Marantz SA8005 SACD player, since it appears there will be no more modified disc spinners coming from Modwright. Right out of the box it is close to the tubed Modwright player/power supply in terms of liquidity, naturalness of timbre, etc. (all of the tube-related attributes that I bought the Modwright for). So my biggest concern will not be an issue. CD playback is superior to the Modwright in all parameters. SACD playback is too close to call so far. I will report back once the combo is broken in, placed in the rack, connected to my top tier cables, etc.
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DAC was lightly used. Audio-GD says at least 300 hours for a new one, with improvements in sound quality up to 1000 hours. Not sure how many hours on the demo PS Audio Perfectwave SACD Transport. I2S cable is brand new (and can’t be burned in on any other device). So yes, I choose to burn them in.
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Have tried many DAC's over the years. Favorites are Ayre and Bricasti, current (and probably last) DAC is Ayre QX5. I favor small, USA companies wit great service. solid engineering and build quality. These two qualify and have great sonics and features to my ear.
Yes.
IMO the MPD-8 is the clear winner, I've owned one for five years. Agree with everything in this video.
Reconfiguration complete, burn-in continues: Large, heavy Audio-GD R7 HE Mk. 2 DAC on bottom shelf behind Pathos amp sits on Dalby Audio Lignum Vitae feet and Sound Mechanics isolation platform; Bybee Wire Dark Matter Stealth Power Purifer on the right; PS Audio Perfectwave SACD Transport on top shelf sits on ASI Topline feet and Townshend Seismic Sink air platform. Plan to upgrade the isolation platforms to Wellfloat in the near future.
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And how does it sound? Is this a discrete R2R DAC or does it have a chip(s)? Nice Pathos TT amp but what are the speakers?
Prefer the sound of R2R ladder DAC's, and Ayre and Bricasti don't have I2S HDMI inputs and can't convert native DSD from an SACD (my priority) directly to analogue (although I see that Bricasti recently announced that I2S inputs will be optional on future DAC's). The Playback Design products also lack this capability. Note that having an I2S HDMI input does not automatically mean that the native DSD bitstream can be converted directly to analogue. Bryston for example offers a DAC that accepts the DSD bitstream from an SACD via HDMI, but converts it to PCM for playback. Other than the 2X the cost PS Audio DAC (which sounded too SS for my tastes) I had only a few choices with I2S HDMI input and conversion of native DSD directly to analogue - all Chinese (Audio-GD, Denafrips, Holo Audio).
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Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Wonderful, even with new (not broken in) cables and fuses. Significantly better CD playback (spatially, tonally, etc.) than my fully tricked out Modwright modified Marantz SA8005 SACD player. The Audio-GD is a discrete R2R ladder design with a built in power regenerator. Links to design details and a review (which is spot on) below. SACD playback is also improved dynamically and spatially over the Modwright Marantz player. It is a bigger, more resolved presentation that seems less tethered to the speakers. Critically for my tastes, the all SS PSA/AGD combo gives up little if anything to the Modwright's analogue tube (5687) output stage and tube (Sophia blue 274B) rectified power supply, when it comes to liquidity and naturalness of timbre and tonality. My Pathos TT as I've reported previously has been extensively modified/upgraded in consultation with the factory. Speakers are a custom upgrade (rare, exotic Fostex FT96-EX2 tweeters, top of the line Eton woofers, upgraded crossover and wiring, custom bamboo cabinet, etc.) by Greg Belman of Bache Audio, based on his augmented wide band (4" driver covers 500hz - 10khz) Metro 001 model. I will have more to say once everything is broken in and I've done more extensive head to head comparisons with the Modwight unit.
FYI: http://www.audio-gd.com/HE/R7HEMK2/R7HE_MK2EN.htm
FYI: https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-66-audio-gd-r7he-mk2-da-processor
Excerpt:
".....I'm telling about the Mola Mola and May DACs because Audio-GD's R7HE MK2 presents music in a manner that I think combines the solid, understated intensity of the May with the uber-clear dynamism of the Tambaqui. The result is digital playback that materializes what's buried in the bits in a manner I find intoxicating....".
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Note that the Audio-GD R7 HE Mk. 2 comes with specialized ACSS (current drive) output connectors designed specifically for use with Krell CAST.
FYI: https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1206krell/index.html
That’s cool though my Krell Duo 300 XD doesn’t have a Cast inputs. Used to have and enjoy using CAST with my old FPB 300cx and KCT preamp. That was magical.
OK! This post has been months in the making but I'm finally there. I didn't intend for it to be this long but, well, it just is 
First I want to send a heartfelt thank you to everyone who has recommended and helped on this journey. My situation is unique and I appreciate everyone taking the time to recommend what you think that I would need rather than just a generic recommendation.
I also want to thank the many amazing retailers who helped on my journey: The Music Room, Atelier13 and Alma Audio to name a few. All wonderful to deal with.
With that out of the way, here are my impressions. I realize now more than ever that these are my unique impressions based on my unique circumstances. So if you disagree, I totally understand. But if there's someone out there in similar situation, hopefully this helps!
aqua La Scala MKII Optologic - based on my price range I know I should have been listening to the Formula but I had a chance to audition this so I jumped at it. I agree with the reputation for it being 'analog' and it had one unique quality - it had absolutely zero harshness up top. As in, I threw sibilant and hot recordings at it that normally have a peaky quality that makes me wince and *voila* it was gone. Like all the sharp edges had been filed down smooth. Really amazing. However... I found this a bit boring and lacking the toe tap factor. It was easy to listen to, sure, but not very involving to me.
Less Loss Echo's End Reference - I never even knew about this until I got a recommendation from @Republicoftexas69. Konstantin from Atelier13 was awesome to work with and he really knows his stuff. This was certainly the most unique DAC I've ever had in my system! Beautiful Panzerholz enclosure and about as barebones as it gets feature-wise. Not even a power button! I felt that this had a similar zero harshness character to the aqua but just way better all around. And it had one amazing quality that I still think about to this day. The bass. Oh that bass. I'm a sucker for the low end and this had the deepest yet most articulate bass I've ever heard. Not bloated. Just clean and powerful. It was intoxicating. However... I felt similarly that this was a bit reserved and was again missing the involvement I was looking for. I told Konstantin that I felt it sounded 'dark' and we had a great conversation about how he believes that, as a frequent listener of live music in Nashville, that this 'dark' quality is actually more like how real music sounds and we have been trained to expect splash and sparkle that isn't actually there. I totally respect that point of view. It just wasn't enough to make me want to keep it. But oh how I still think about that bass...
MSB Premier - I really wanted to love this for non-sonic reasons. I love the form factor, it has a dimmable display that doesn't come on when the volume is changed, I like the remote, the Digital Director is an option for future upgrades. I don't know, I just like what MSB is doing. Ultimately this one was hard to pin down opinion-wise. It sounded fine. Quite analog-like. But it didn't have any special qualities. It didn't have the absolute smoothness of the aqua. It didn't have the heavenly bass of the Less Loss. It didn't have the soundstage of the Tambaqui or the Rossini APEX. It just... kind of did its own thing which was neither great or bad to me. It was just kinda there.
Playback Designs MPD-8 - Now we're getting somewhere. When I first auditioned this, I liked it a lot. It was non-fatiguing though not quite as smooth as the aqua. It had great bass but not as good as the Less Loss (alas). It had a very nice soundstage though not as good as the Tambaqui or Rossini APEX. It just did a lot really well without being the king of anything. Except!... that toe tap factor. After three DACs in a row that I found a bit uninvolving, I was wondering if something had changed either with me or my system. And then *bam* there it was. Immediately I found myself nodding along with the beats, tapping to the rhythm and just generally into it. I thought to myself that this was a very intriguing option. Because I'm a sick audiophile, and I wasn't absolutely smitten with the MPD-8, I couldn't be content as I wanted to try a few more options. I wanted to see if anything else would wow me. So I moved on.
Nagra HD DAC X - I didn't have any intention of going down this route but got an amazing opportunity to try this so I jumped at it. My summary is that this is quite simply the most technically accomplished DAC I've ever had in my system. I've experienced a wider soundstage many times but this DAC made the soundstage more 3-D in front of me. It stretched further into my back wall and I've never heard anything like it. It also excelled in micro details and I heard things like echoes of Carolin No's voice on "Crystal Ball" lasting longer and going further into the background than ever before. Super cool. I had lots of these experiences and it was eye-opening and fun. I also loved the form factor of the DAC/power supply and thought it looked great. But it had two fatal flaws for me. One was lack of deep bass. I tried a lot of things including cables, preamp swapping, etc. and just couldn't get the deepest bass compared to even the DAC inside the Classe Delta Pre. It was missing some bottom end weight which is really important to me. The other was that damn toe tap factor. It was missing again. As much technical fun as I was having listening to music, I just wasn't as into it as I was with the Playback. Someone I talked to described this DAC as "polite" and I couldn't agree more. So I decided I couldn't live with it. I really wanted to. But I just couldn't. At the same time, I also decided something else...
Playback Designs MPD-8 part 2 - I couldn't stop thinking about this DAC. And after a discussion where I found out I could swing a good package deal, I decided I had to pull the trigger. I didn't know if this was *the one*, but I didn't want to let it slip by me considering its rarity on the used market, wait times for new stock, etc. So I bought it. And because I'm a sick audiophile, I kept going as there were just a few more I wanted to cross off my list...
totaldac D-1 Unity - I have to lead off here with the fact that I'm an idiot. I contacted Vincent about purchasing and he was great to work with. There was a payment snafu which was my fault and the payment processor was dragging their feet with a resolution. I intended on paying again as soon as the situation was rectified but it kept dragging on and on. Finally, it was resolved, but in the meantime I found something else that I was looking for so I purchased those and ultimately never repurchased the totaldac. Sorry Vincent
Lampizator Horizon - Well, you guys were very vocal that I should try Lampizator and I was looking at the Pacific for a while trying to make a decision. Then I saw the post about the Poseidon and I was really intrigued. I was having conversations about just diving in and buying one of the first units and then a Horizon came up for sale. I just had to go for it. This one ended up being very straightforward. I was hoping to use it as a preamp but even on the lowest volume setting of "1" it was near my normal listening volume so there was no headroom and that was out. I tried it with my existing preamp and found the sound to be uninspiring and the soundstage quite small. I was surprised but tried it several different times and it was always the same. I didn't want to get into tube rolling to change the sound so I gave up. Sorry everyone. But there was a good reason! Because it turns out there was something else I had that I loved...
First I want to send a heartfelt thank you to everyone who has recommended and helped on this journey. My situation is unique and I appreciate everyone taking the time to recommend what you think that I would need rather than just a generic recommendation.
I also want to thank the many amazing retailers who helped on my journey: The Music Room, Atelier13 and Alma Audio to name a few. All wonderful to deal with.
With that out of the way, here are my impressions. I realize now more than ever that these are my unique impressions based on my unique circumstances. So if you disagree, I totally understand. But if there's someone out there in similar situation, hopefully this helps!
aqua La Scala MKII Optologic - based on my price range I know I should have been listening to the Formula but I had a chance to audition this so I jumped at it. I agree with the reputation for it being 'analog' and it had one unique quality - it had absolutely zero harshness up top. As in, I threw sibilant and hot recordings at it that normally have a peaky quality that makes me wince and *voila* it was gone. Like all the sharp edges had been filed down smooth. Really amazing. However... I found this a bit boring and lacking the toe tap factor. It was easy to listen to, sure, but not very involving to me.
Less Loss Echo's End Reference - I never even knew about this until I got a recommendation from @Republicoftexas69. Konstantin from Atelier13 was awesome to work with and he really knows his stuff. This was certainly the most unique DAC I've ever had in my system! Beautiful Panzerholz enclosure and about as barebones as it gets feature-wise. Not even a power button! I felt that this had a similar zero harshness character to the aqua but just way better all around. And it had one amazing quality that I still think about to this day. The bass. Oh that bass. I'm a sucker for the low end and this had the deepest yet most articulate bass I've ever heard. Not bloated. Just clean and powerful. It was intoxicating. However... I felt similarly that this was a bit reserved and was again missing the involvement I was looking for. I told Konstantin that I felt it sounded 'dark' and we had a great conversation about how he believes that, as a frequent listener of live music in Nashville, that this 'dark' quality is actually more like how real music sounds and we have been trained to expect splash and sparkle that isn't actually there. I totally respect that point of view. It just wasn't enough to make me want to keep it. But oh how I still think about that bass...
MSB Premier - I really wanted to love this for non-sonic reasons. I love the form factor, it has a dimmable display that doesn't come on when the volume is changed, I like the remote, the Digital Director is an option for future upgrades. I don't know, I just like what MSB is doing. Ultimately this one was hard to pin down opinion-wise. It sounded fine. Quite analog-like. But it didn't have any special qualities. It didn't have the absolute smoothness of the aqua. It didn't have the heavenly bass of the Less Loss. It didn't have the soundstage of the Tambaqui or the Rossini APEX. It just... kind of did its own thing which was neither great or bad to me. It was just kinda there.
Playback Designs MPD-8 - Now we're getting somewhere. When I first auditioned this, I liked it a lot. It was non-fatiguing though not quite as smooth as the aqua. It had great bass but not as good as the Less Loss (alas). It had a very nice soundstage though not as good as the Tambaqui or Rossini APEX. It just did a lot really well without being the king of anything. Except!... that toe tap factor. After three DACs in a row that I found a bit uninvolving, I was wondering if something had changed either with me or my system. And then *bam* there it was. Immediately I found myself nodding along with the beats, tapping to the rhythm and just generally into it. I thought to myself that this was a very intriguing option. Because I'm a sick audiophile, and I wasn't absolutely smitten with the MPD-8, I couldn't be content as I wanted to try a few more options. I wanted to see if anything else would wow me. So I moved on.
Nagra HD DAC X - I didn't have any intention of going down this route but got an amazing opportunity to try this so I jumped at it. My summary is that this is quite simply the most technically accomplished DAC I've ever had in my system. I've experienced a wider soundstage many times but this DAC made the soundstage more 3-D in front of me. It stretched further into my back wall and I've never heard anything like it. It also excelled in micro details and I heard things like echoes of Carolin No's voice on "Crystal Ball" lasting longer and going further into the background than ever before. Super cool. I had lots of these experiences and it was eye-opening and fun. I also loved the form factor of the DAC/power supply and thought it looked great. But it had two fatal flaws for me. One was lack of deep bass. I tried a lot of things including cables, preamp swapping, etc. and just couldn't get the deepest bass compared to even the DAC inside the Classe Delta Pre. It was missing some bottom end weight which is really important to me. The other was that damn toe tap factor. It was missing again. As much technical fun as I was having listening to music, I just wasn't as into it as I was with the Playback. Someone I talked to described this DAC as "polite" and I couldn't agree more. So I decided I couldn't live with it. I really wanted to. But I just couldn't. At the same time, I also decided something else...
Playback Designs MPD-8 part 2 - I couldn't stop thinking about this DAC. And after a discussion where I found out I could swing a good package deal, I decided I had to pull the trigger. I didn't know if this was *the one*, but I didn't want to let it slip by me considering its rarity on the used market, wait times for new stock, etc. So I bought it. And because I'm a sick audiophile, I kept going as there were just a few more I wanted to cross off my list...
totaldac D-1 Unity - I have to lead off here with the fact that I'm an idiot. I contacted Vincent about purchasing and he was great to work with. There was a payment snafu which was my fault and the payment processor was dragging their feet with a resolution. I intended on paying again as soon as the situation was rectified but it kept dragging on and on. Finally, it was resolved, but in the meantime I found something else that I was looking for so I purchased those and ultimately never repurchased the totaldac. Sorry Vincent
Lampizator Horizon - Well, you guys were very vocal that I should try Lampizator and I was looking at the Pacific for a while trying to make a decision. Then I saw the post about the Poseidon and I was really intrigued. I was having conversations about just diving in and buying one of the first units and then a Horizon came up for sale. I just had to go for it. This one ended up being very straightforward. I was hoping to use it as a preamp but even on the lowest volume setting of "1" it was near my normal listening volume so there was no headroom and that was out. I tried it with my existing preamp and found the sound to be uninspiring and the soundstage quite small. I was surprised but tried it several different times and it was always the same. I didn't want to get into tube rolling to change the sound so I gave up. Sorry everyone. But there was a good reason! Because it turns out there was something else I had that I loved...
Aries Cerat Kassandra II - At the same time I was able to pick up a Kassandra and was trying it out. I liked it much more than the Horizon so it made it easy to let that go. The Kassandra is by far the most unique sounding DAC I've owned. It is, in a word, intoxicating. All other DACs just did a little something to the songs I listened to. "Oh hey, I've never heard that sound effect before." "Oh wow, I've never heard the bassline like that before." "Oh those echoes seem to go on forever." Stuff like that. The Kassandra though, it's just totally different. It was as if I was listening to remixed versions of well-known tracks. Someone I talked to referred to the Kassandra's characteristic as "tonal density" and that must be where the magic is. It's not a warm sounding DAC exactly, but it has the characteristics of warmth. Thick without being slow. Dense without being heavy or muddy. Enveloping. And across a variety of music genres, everything just sounded great. Electronic/Dance was especially wonderful. And it had that PRAT toe tap factor! I nodded along with everything. If there was one drawback, it was a lack of low bass like the Nagra. I did everything I could and just couldn't solve it. It just didn't go as low as the MPD-8. But was it such a joy to listen to in its own way! What to do???
So, in the end, it was about compromise. I know there's no 'perfect' DAC. I was just hoping to be blown away by something. "This is it" kind of thing. But that never happened. The closest was the MPD-8 and I snapped that up. And I loved so much about the Kassandra. Which one would I keep? I started having visions of keeping both. They're so different that I could see firing up one on one day and another on another day and being totally happy. But space, practicality and financial considerations made that a non-starter. Incidentally, I do know someone that has both. I wondered when I saw them why he had two high end DACs? I get it now!
Final decision time. Which could I happily live with? I finally decided on the Playback Designs MPD-8. In my opinion, and I don't mean this to be harsh, I think it's a jack of all trades, master of none based on my experience. Soundstage, bass, articulation, speed, etc. have individually been done better by separate DACs. But this DAC does all of those things at 80-90%+ of those individual qualities but all together. And I can't think of a single real weakness it has. Additionally, with FPGA architecture Andreas can introduce firmware improvements down the line which is a plus. And I can always add the X-4 USB interface (which I will) to improve things. Ultimately I felt like this DAC could be a cornerstone for my system and I could build around that. So I'm done!
Whew. Now I'll look into some more power amp options and do some research on speakers. Why? Because I'm sick and this never ends. But at least it's fun!
Apologies again to Vincent once more. Sorry for the hassle and I wish I could have tried totaldac but the timing just didn't work out.
If you've read to the end, thanks again for coming on this journey with me!
So, in the end, it was about compromise. I know there's no 'perfect' DAC. I was just hoping to be blown away by something. "This is it" kind of thing. But that never happened. The closest was the MPD-8 and I snapped that up. And I loved so much about the Kassandra. Which one would I keep? I started having visions of keeping both. They're so different that I could see firing up one on one day and another on another day and being totally happy. But space, practicality and financial considerations made that a non-starter. Incidentally, I do know someone that has both. I wondered when I saw them why he had two high end DACs? I get it now!
Final decision time. Which could I happily live with? I finally decided on the Playback Designs MPD-8. In my opinion, and I don't mean this to be harsh, I think it's a jack of all trades, master of none based on my experience. Soundstage, bass, articulation, speed, etc. have individually been done better by separate DACs. But this DAC does all of those things at 80-90%+ of those individual qualities but all together. And I can't think of a single real weakness it has. Additionally, with FPGA architecture Andreas can introduce firmware improvements down the line which is a plus. And I can always add the X-4 USB interface (which I will) to improve things. Ultimately I felt like this DAC could be a cornerstone for my system and I could build around that. So I'm done!
Whew. Now I'll look into some more power amp options and do some research on speakers. Why? Because I'm sick and this never ends. But at least it's fun!
Apologies again to Vincent once more. Sorry for the hassle and I wish I could have tried totaldac but the timing just didn't work out.
If you've read to the end, thanks again for coming on this journey with me!
I very much enjoyed reading your post(s) and applaud your diligence , I am presuming that you tried out a few different E280F triodes in the output stage of the Kassandra ?
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