Daniele Cohen from Alsyvox visits Rhapsody.Audio

[Marcus]

What is the value add of having 2 external passive crossovers? How are these crossovers different than what is in the standard model? Why is there such a cost difference?

What does one gain sonically with external passive crossovers?

If one orders a standard model initially, is there flexibility to upgrade to the external passive crossovers later?

Here’s my impressions on external crossovers for the Botticelli.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/alsyvox-botticelli-with-external-crossovers.29632/

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Must be like a sport exhaust option in Porsche.

Got to be careful with that statement I have heard / seen "sport" exhaust options destroy the sound / performance / value of a car.
So actually in context, now that I think about it, the same could happen to an audio system.

 

[amadeus]

Daniel is a great Gentleman and even better speaker builder his speakers are awesome i have visited him in Spain Valencia and listened to his system the Botticelli s build inn and external crossovers when we switched to external crossovers it was in 20 seconds clear that this was a better version no way to go back....

 

[caesar]

Here’s my impressions on external crossovers for the Botticelli.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/alsyvox-botticelli-with-external-crossovers.29632/

Great read! Thank you for doing that.

 

[caesar]

>>>>

>>>>The Xovers take any of the Alsyvox to a different sonic level. They sound great without the external Xovers, but it's like night and day when you insert the external Xovers. MORE of everything. Better separation of instruments (transparency) better midrange, better bass, etc.

The circuit of the Xover is similar to the internal Xovers but the parts are all Mundorf and are large components and laid out differently.

When you pick one you realize that they are basically like buying a high level preamp. $15K each once you see what they do to the speaker seems VERY reasonable.

.

Sonically, this may be akin to a major Amplifier upgrade, not a preamp, though. Am I understanding correctly?

 

[caesar]

Rhapsody Audio and Taiko Audio,

I am grateful for the great replies - very informative.

Thanks for being on the bleeding edge of Best gear out there. And thanks for taking a business risk on a new, but obviously incredible brand.

Furthermore, thanks for contributing to WBF and making it the Best, the one go-to-place for the greatest this hobby can offer.

 

[caesar]

Installed external Xovers on a customer's Tintorettos today. Now they are Tintoretto X's.
View attachment 66758 View attachment 66759 View attachment 66760

Gorgeous!

Did I read somewhere that the speaker designer's wife is an industrial designer? She has done an amazing job also. Absolutely beautiful speaker.

Yet looking at the pictures, I'm surprised by no toe-in. Is toeing in recommended?

How does toeing in change the sound? How would it differ in a smaller vs. a larger room?

 

[caesar]

Valin was begging for a review, in one of his show reports. I wonder if the company owners will grant him his wish.

 

[Rhapsody]

Sonically, this may be akin to a major Amplifier upgrade, not a preamp, though. Am I understanding correctly?

I was just throwing an example out there, meaning the Xovers have a significant sonic uptick in performance, just as if you added or upgraded either a preamp or amp etc. Nothing specific intended.

 

[Rhapsody]

Gorgeous!

Did I read somewhere that the speaker designer's wife is an industrial designer? She has done an amazing job also. Absolutely beautiful speaker.

Yet looking at the pictures, I'm surprised by no toe-in. Is toeing in recommended?

How does toeing in change the sound? How would it differ in a smaller vs. a larger room?

Yes, Paola, Daniele's wife WAS a designer and works closely now with Daniele on the design of the speakers. There is toe-in recommended. The super tweeters/mid-tweeters should be facing at the listener's seating position.

In the pics above this owner actually sits off to the left side at his desk while he listens so the Tintorettos are set up in a fashion that works specifically for this listener in this room.

 

[Alrainbow]

Bob ,

Is that with tweeters to inside or outside ..?

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob ,

Is that with tweeters to inside or outside ..?

Tweeters are on the inside for the Tintoretto and Botticelli and on the outside for Caravaggio. Of course with possibly a unique room with odd shaped dimensions one might try the opposite (tweeters on the outside). I'm sure they will still sound good with tweeters on the outside, but the norm is as stated.

 

[caesar]

Gentlemen,
Great thread. Thank you again.

Can someone, who has heard both SS and tubes with this speaker, highlight the differences / tradeoffs between the types of amplifications?

Maybe to ask this in a different way, since this speaker can have tube amps drive it fairly easily, why would anyone want to drive it with SS? What would they get that tubes can't give them?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Caesar,

It is indeed a benign load to drive with single order crossovers and a fairly high sensitivity. And yes tubes, especially SE, do give you that "breath of life infusion" in the midrange, increased clarity of midrange tone and often a richer tonal colour palette. However good solid state has it perks too, increased low bass definition, control and slam, blacker backgrounds, overall lower "noise levels" and just more power. I find this to be especially noticeable on large scale orchestral pieces of which I'm personally a big fan. I also like movie soundtracks which can often be considered as large scale orchestral. Although you still do not need a lot of RMS/continuous power there are short term jumps, often just a few microseconds, where power requirements can easily jump to 200 watts or even more to accurately track the complexity and swell of the orchestra. This translates in keeping a better overview when things get complex/busy, you can track all individual instruments and both micro and macro dynamics are better rendered. I've used high power tube amps in the past like the Manley 440/500s and VTL 750s who pull that off too, but you do lose some of that special SE midrange magic with those and solid state has become a lot better. CAT amps pull that off too and I'm sure VAC does too and there are several other high power tube options. With all that said I do have a loaner Alieno "hybrid" amplifier here, it's not hybrid as in a tube stage followed by a solid state stage, but it applies a technology (I don't know how it works exactly) which was described to me as a 300B OTL providing the voltage gain and solid state providing the current gain. Maybe the 300Bs drive the base of the transistors, but I'm just guessing here, I really don't know and I'm not going to open it up to retrace the circuit design. At any rate it's a 300B OTL with 250 watts of output power. It does do large scale orchestra really well, keeps the full overview, never "falls apart" nor fails to "climax" all the way to the peak of the performance. And it does have that special SE quality in the midrange at the same time. It only falls short of what my Audionet Stern/Heisenbergs can do on ultimate sound stage size / immersion / envelopment and it does not have the absolute silent and black backgrounds, does not dig as deep and does not exert the same iron fisted control over deep bass, BUT completely compensates for that by that "reach out and touch" midrange quality. I could happily live with these and never look back.

So to sum up, if you're asking me, by all means get those tubes if you're all about jazz, blues, smaller scale classical and midrange purity/clarity and tone is all that matters to you, yes 6 or 8 watts is plenty for these purposes in a RTC 0.6-1.0 room, for RTC 0.4-0.5 I would sooner opt for 20-60 watts. But if large scale orchestra is your thing, you are going to miss out on some of what makes it large.

All IMHO

 

[caesar]

WoW! What an excellent reply! Thank you!

 

[christoph]

Hi Caesar,

It is indeed a benign load to drive with single order crossovers and a fairly high sensitivity. And yes tubes, especially SE, do give you that "breath of life infusion" in the midrange, increased clarity of midrange tone and often a richer tonal colour palette. However good solid state has it perks too, increased low bass definition, control and slam, blacker backgrounds, overall lower "noise levels" and just more power. I find this to be especially noticeable on large scale orchestral pieces of which I'm personally a big fan. I also like movie soundtracks which can often be considered as large scale orchestral. Although you still do not need a lot of RMS/continuous power there are short term jumps, often just a few microseconds, where power requirements can easily jump to 200 watts or even more to accurately track the complexity and swell of the orchestra. This translates in keeping a better overview when things get complex/busy, you can track all individual instruments and both micro and macro dynamics are better rendered. I've used high power tube amps in the past like the Manley 440/500s and VTL 750s who pull that off too, but you do lose some of that special SE midrange magic with those and solid state has become a lot better. CAT amps pull that off too and I'm sure VAC does too and there are several other high power tube options. With all that said I do have a loaner Alieno "hybrid" amplifier here, it's not hybrid as in a tube stage followed by a solid state stage, but it applies a technology (I don't know how it works exactly) which was described to me as a 300B OTL providing the voltage gain and solid state providing the current gain. Maybe the 300Bs drive the base of the transistors, but I'm just guessing here, I really don't know and I'm not going to open it up to retrace the circuit design. At any rate it's a 300B OTL with 250 watts of output power. It does do large scale orchestra really well, keeps the full overview, never "falls apart" nor fails to "climax" all the way to the peak of the performance. And it does have that special SE quality in the midrange at the same time. It only falls short of what my Audionet Stern/Heisenbergs can do on ultimate sound stage size / immersion / envelopment and it does not have the absolute silent and black backgrounds, does not dig as deep and does not exert the same iron fisted control over deep bass, BUT completely compensates for that by that "reach out and touch" midrange quality. I could happily live with these and never look back.

So to sum up, if you're asking me, by all means get those tubes if you're all about jazz, blues, smaller scale classical and midrange purity/clarity and tone is all that matters to you, yes 6 or 8 watts is plenty for these purposes in a RTC 0.6-1.0 room, for RTC 0.4-0.5 I would sooner opt for 20-60 watts. But if large scale orchestra is your thing, you are going to miss out on some of what makes it large.

All IMHO

I would LOOOVE to hear AlsyVoxes driven by KR Audio Kronzillas

 

[gds7368]

Hi Caesar,

It is indeed a benign load to drive with single order crossovers and a fairly high sensitivity. And yes tubes, especially SE, do give you that "breath of life infusion" in the midrange, increased clarity of midrange tone and often a richer tonal colour palette. However good solid state has it perks too, increased low bass definition, control and slam, blacker backgrounds, overall lower "noise levels" and just more power. I find this to be especially noticeable on large scale orchestral pieces of which I'm personally a big fan. I also like movie soundtracks which can often be considered as large scale orchestral. Although you still do not need a lot of RMS/continuous power there are short term jumps, often just a few microseconds, where power requirements can easily jump to 200 watts or even more to accurately track the complexity and swell of the orchestra. This translates in keeping a better overview when things get complex/busy, you can track all individual instruments and both micro and macro dynamics are better rendered. I've used high power tube amps in the past like the Manley 440/500s and VTL 750s who pull that off too, but you do lose some of that special SE midrange magic with those and solid state has become a lot better. CAT amps pull that off too and I'm sure VAC does too and there are several other high power tube options. With all that said I do have a loaner Alieno "hybrid" amplifier here, it's not hybrid as in a tube stage followed by a solid state stage, but it applies a technology (I don't know how it works exactly) which was described to me as a 300B OTL providing the voltage gain and solid state providing the current gain. Maybe the 300Bs drive the base of the transistors, but I'm just guessing here, I really don't know and I'm not going to open it up to retrace the circuit design. At any rate it's a 300B OTL with 250 watts of output power. It does do large scale orchestra really well, keeps the full overview, never "falls apart" nor fails to "climax" all the way to the peak of the performance. And it does have that special SE quality in the midrange at the same time. It only falls short of what my Audionet Stern/Heisenbergs can do on ultimate sound stage size / immersion / envelopment and it does not have the absolute silent and black backgrounds, does not dig as deep and does not exert the same iron fisted control over deep bass, BUT completely compensates for that by that "reach out and touch" midrange quality. I could happily live with these and never look back.

So to sum up, if you're asking me, by all means get those tubes if you're all about jazz, blues, smaller scale classical and midrange purity/clarity and tone is all that matters to you, yes 6 or 8 watts is plenty for these purposes in a RTC 0.6-1.0 room, for RTC 0.4-0.5 I would sooner opt for 20-60 watts. But if large scale orchestra is your thing, you are going to miss out on some of what makes it large.

All IMHO

Fantastic review! How do they sound with rock music?

 

[Rhapsody]

Fantastic review! How do they sound with rock music?

BIG SCALE sound, room encompassing, powerful/dynamic bass, great soundstaging. They ROCK.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Fantastic review! How do they sound with rock music?

Bob covered the speakers, I'll comment on the Alieno amp. It is actually really good for rock music as it emphasizes the upper bass to the higher midrange a bit increasing apparent midrange dynamic swing/energy and upper bass slam/impact. I'm thinking awesome for some AC/DC right now and have a 30 minute break, BBL

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob covered the speakers, I'll comment on the Alieno amp. It is actually really good for rock music as it emphasizes the upper bass to the higher midrange a bit increasing apparent midrange dynamic swing/energy and upper bass slam/impact. I'm thinking awesome for some AC/DC right now and have a 30 minute break, BBL

I really don't know of any music that doesn't sound great on any of the Alsyvox. Full scale orchestra, Rock/hip-hop/pop, jazz, folk/vocals, opera. All sound VG.