"Delusional Nice People" - Kessler still on a rampage

I don't think so, the title is "Delusional Nice People" who make expensive audio gear. IMO there's a lot of questionable logic behind holding this point of view.

This is, after all, the same writer who devotes a thousand words to a device that if used as intended, will reduce your life span by several years and your wallet by €1 million, ending the article by saying "Suffice it to say, the designers have redefined the borders of excess; I don't even smoke and I want an Emperador." (Italics mine.)

And why? Because a cigar humidor costing €1 million would never be made by "delusional nice people" like the ones who make the cables and cartridges Kessler's so distraught by, but instead by the two founders whose philosophy was "to innovate, enrich and amaze by bringing to life objects imagined in their wildest dreams, to conceive the inconceivable, to achieve the unachievable", which is of course, completely different, and a much more noble and worthy pursuit than hand-winding tiny coils around tiny magnets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/smoking-hot-the-worlds-most-advanced-cigar-case/

853guy
 
Ked,

Sorry, I missed your post.

I expect disagreement from you. You center your audio valuation in short time direct comparison, that I consider misleading. In technical terms you love differentiation, I prefer integration. :)

And singular cases from the people you met at Munich are illustrative of existence, but nothing else. Our main question is where you see a lot, I see a few. Considering this is a subjective hobby, it is expected.

And no, IMHO people belief that properly spent, as most of the time, higher price returns better performance, and act accordingly. They are wise, IMHO.

Actually, no. I seldom, if ever, use things like Munich. They are based on listening to same components across various systems and rooms, in different configurations, to bring out consistencies. Consistencies both on components and set up styles. Things like Munich are show reports I don't care much for and is exactly like what the caveat on my show report says.

If speaker A does not strike me as good in 5 different rooms set up by 5 different people, and if it has the same issues each time, well, it's a duck. You need time to set up something, not to evaluate something that is already set up
 
This is, after all, the same writer who devotes a thousand words to a device that if used as intended, will reduce your life span by several years and your wallet by €1 million, ending the article by saying "Suffice it to say, the designers have redefined the borders of excess; I don't even smoke and I want an Emperador." (Italics mine.)

And why? Because a cigar humidor costing €1 million would never be made by "delusional nice people" like the ones who make the cables and cartridges Kessler's so distraught by, but instead by the two founders whose philosophy was "to innovate, enrich and amaze by bringing to life objects imagined in their wildest dreams, to conceive the inconceivable, to achieve the unachievable", which is of course, completely different, and a much more noble and worthy pursuit than hand-winding tiny coils around tiny magnets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/smoking-hot-the-worlds-most-advanced-cigar-case/

853guy

Hard to top that one 853guy. Great find.
 
Do you think that Boulder can provide the liquidity that D'Agostino has?

Can't say. I have heard boulder sound good and bad. Elberoth posted somewhere that his friend preferred the Dags in a compare in his system. I see both as different sounds and hence preferences. Vitus is a third type of sound. I like all
 
"For me, the saddest aspect of the entire pricing issue is that the people involved with the worst transgressions are actually decent human beings. I simply don’t understand how they have managed, like politicians, to convince themselves -- let alone consumers -- that a length of wire or MC cartridge can have the same price, let alone worth, as an SUV. I no longer discuss it with them. It’s like talking to the wall.

...like it or not, we audiophiles are not plentiful enough to keep the industry going. Even if my dream came true, in which half the hi-fi manufacturers on this planet simply vanished, we’d still have too many makers to support. But listen closely: If you’re selling amplifiers for $100,000 or cables for $20,000, your competition isn’t the other guy doing the same. No way: Your competition has names like BMW and Audemars Piguet and Cartier. And if you think otherwise, then you are, indeed, delusional."
- Ken Kessler

How old is Mr. Ken Kessler, 66? Is it a crisis age period?

I asked because audio psychology has various phase periods over one's audiophile sojourn here on planet earth. He's an experienced writer for many many years, and he's good @ it. We all choose our own life's destiny, we fight the elements...nature, humans, science, beliefs...
The choices we make; living with the ones we wish and love and respect as our own closest families and circles of friends, the jobs we perform to put food on the table and clothes over our skin, the hobbies we pursue with passion and dedication, the perturbations, tumults and obstructions we faced every single day, the normal audio struggles that come with the price we pay, the search for the holy grail of audio nirvana, the conscience, the dignity, the affinity, the affirmation, the adjudication and deliberation of our actions and audio decisions are our own choices for ourselves, and not for others.

Andre, R.I.P., "Live and let live."

We keep rotating, our planet, and along with it we keep turning in circles with advancing vices and disillusions.
Ken Kessler has stepped out for a brief moment with that latest article, and he should be back after his time's crisis...whatever phase age he's going through.

That's my opinion, because I don't see things changing anytime soon. It's very hard to make the right choices when you have to survive in order to stay alive.
It's a way of speech. We need to remain focus, in control of our own destiny, without anyone else affecting the ultimate outcome. It's our time, now, it's our lives.

I was going to share some more on Dolby Vision, but after reading on what people are truly interested here in my circle of friends .... for now.
 
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This is, after all, the same writer who devotes a thousand words to a device that if used as intended, will reduce your life span by several years and your wallet by €1 million, ending the article by saying "Suffice it to say, the designers have redefined the borders of excess; I don't even smoke and I want an Emperador." (Italics mine.)

And why? Because a cigar humidor costing €1 million would never be made by "delusional nice people" like the ones who make the cables and cartridges Kessler's so distraught by, but instead by the two founders whose philosophy was "to innovate, enrich and amaze by bringing to life objects imagined in their wildest dreams, to conceive the inconceivable, to achieve the unachievable", which is of course, completely different, and a much more noble and worthy pursuit than hand-winding tiny coils around tiny magnets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/smoking-hot-the-worlds-most-advanced-cigar-case/

853guy

That's pretty funny. :D
 
I can see Kessler's point especially in the digital age. Pro Audio doesn't price their equipment as luxury items or have all this embellished equipment and the sound product has always been technically superior music. So why have 30K preamps,75K amplifiers,or 50K wires,I can see a need for a good monitor,but a 100K speaker is not the norm. Anyway anybody can spend their money as they see fit,but you get what you pay for doesn't fit high end audio necessarily anymore.
 
Anyway anybody can spend their money as they see fit,but you get what you pay for doesn't fit high end audio necessarily anymore.

Aah, but that raises the question: what does the term "high end audio" even mean these days? ;)
 
Caesar,
Do you have experience with the Ayre MRX twenty's?

Not direct. I mostly heard it at shows and demos, I believe, either driving Vivids or Wilsons. Interestingly, I did have the previous model of MXR in my house driving my Soundlab system, but preferred the CJ 350 to the Ayre.
 
Hi Dave,

Is Kessler entitled to his opinion? Of course. Do I begrudge him articulating it in the way he has? Not really, he’s a writer covering high-end audio and watches. And to his credit, he did write even he struggles to explain why he can justify certain purchases (watches) but finds others an affront to his sensibilities (expensive socks and hipster coffees). He also writes that though the Bugatti Chiron may not be “worth” its purchase price, having visited the factory, he finds it much easier to explain why it might be worth $2 million versus why any cable might be worth $20K, though he omits to say whether the cable manufacturers he might be talking about also received factory visits from himself. He goes on to say the justification for the purchase of luxury items like classic and/or high performance cars, watches and wine comes down mostly to what he believes goes into them (wine less so), and the reality that in those particular cases, those same luxury items tend to appreciate over time (ignoring the fact the materiality of all three does not change, only their rarity value which is a different thing again).

Those are salient points.

But the ultimate value of a car, a watch or a bottle of wine - despite the utility value of each differing greatly - is inherently no different to that of a cartridge or a cable: To bring pleasure and enjoyment to the owner. No piece of wood framed stretched canvas and acrylic is worth more than its materiality. But if perceived as “art”, becomes almost infinitely valuable, such that it can command prices way above those of any luxury car, despite a much greater investment of time, energy and resources into the car. What is the purpose of a high-end audio system? To reproduce art. Therefore, its materiality comes second to its ability to bring enjoyment to the subject, because unlike live music, sculpture, ballet, and the work of Dürer, it is impossible to appreciate the art form of prerecorded music without an intermediary mechanism.

That Kessler’s articulated his world-view - for that’s all it is - is for me, no more or less of a reason to care what other people think of the purchases I make. And it’s certainly no reason to ask other people to adopt his.



Hi Caesar,

No, I think he’s saying more than that. He’s says “…this has to change”. And he’s not saying he has to, he’s saying the high-end does, and mostly, because of how it’s perceived by others who scorn his purchases. While I accept many may care about how they’re perceived because of the car they drive, the wine they drink or the watch they wear, or in Kessler’s case, the audio system he’s purchased, I do not.

High-end audio is an experiential pursuit, I agree. But I think society is pretty okay with spending money on ephemeral experiences if the consumption of food, alcohol and overseas travel is anything to go by. Certainly, for wine as Kessler writes, it turns to urine within twenty four hours. His justification for wine is that it appreciates in value, but in fact, once it’s been drunk, it turns to s***, and the value of a bottle of wine is immediately diminished to zero. A high end audio system is fundamentally, as you say, a mechanism by which we experience prerecorded music, and as I mention above, is essential, as we can’t experience prerecorded music without an intermediary mechanism (of whatever cost). The difference is, it will continue to provide value beyond a single album, and in some cases, can provide enjoyment for future generations as many tape-decks and turntables are now doing.

In my perspective, mostly all Kessler is doing it justifying some luxury pursuits and then asking for high-end audio to be taken as seriously because other people consider high-end audio in-and-of-itself to be non-justifiable, though he offers no solutions beyond greater justification for prices he himself cannot justify. Again, obviously what other people think of something he can justify but they cannot and vice versa is a problem for Kessler, but like I say, not for myself. If Kessler hopes his perspective to be adopted, he needs to do more than the arguments he puts forth in the two most recent articles he’s penned, the problem being that rather than Kessler’s perspective being too narrow, it’s actually not narrow enough, and his over-generalising across experiences, materiality and utility value, and failure to take into account longevity of experience/enjoyment, undermines his argument, and for me, only confirms a world-view that holds the problem is always someone or something else, allowing him to continue to hold onto his, despite its many contradictions.

Be well, gentlemen.

853guy

853, Great thoughts! I think that most of us in the thread have already accepted that high end audio is a luxury, while many of audiophiles, dealers, and manufacturers haven't. This is a big part of the delusion Kessler is writing about.
 
853, Great thoughts! I think that most of us in the thread have already accepted that high end audio is a luxury, while many of audiophiles, dealers, and manufacturers haven't. This is a big part of the delusion Kessler is writing about.

Who's delusional here? If you think the high end is a luxury market....then the high end is dead. The proof is the low attendance at shows,where most people here already have systems that for the most part are satisfactory. The customer base in America is from 50 to 65, young people can't even leave home. The reality is it's a niche market that grows smaller everyday. Asia might be the exception,but even there the market is select.
 
I always thought that high end audio is the incessant passionate pursuit of musical satisfaction, the soul liberator, the ultimate peace provider, the sensual lover for the eyes and ears. ...The orgasmic galaxy of the higher dimension, the third dimension.

And when you are @ that level the universe is the limit. Man is free to travel intellectually, economically, socially, artistically, humanly and equally.
For the last hundred years we're still circling the same old things, for the next hundred years might as well be prepared to do the exact same thing.
...Turntables with deluxe looks will still be made and the internet music playing in coffee houses.

Today in Canada they just raised the internet rates. We have to pay for our adds and feed the families of the people selling products.
There is no control, everything is for sale, ideas, everything has a price, even ....

Today is a lovely day, it's sunny outside, kids are playing, horses are running, people are posting pics of audio gear, ...it is a day in the life, active and live.
We are lucky to be alive and well. We are lucky to have access @ some of the nicest gear in the last hundred years.
We are lucky to have the internet and the basic essential services. We are lucky to get higher knowledge and make this world a better one for everyone.
Today is a lovely day, the sun is shinning and the birds singing.
 
Kessler misses the point that some of us are OCD. What would we all do if our systems could no longer improve...probably buy some more. The "fix" is in.

Yes, great point. The hobby of high end audio involves music, which generates spellbinding emotions. Anything that has the potential to increase those emotions - at whatever cost we can afford - will likely buy better gear to get to the next level of realism, which can possibly generate even more of those emotions...
 
Who's delusional here? If you think the high end is a luxury market....then the high end is dead. The proof is the low attendance at shows,where most people here already have systems that for the most part are satisfactory. The customer base in America is from 50 to 65, young people can't even leave home. The reality is it's a niche market that grows smaller everyday. Asia might be the exception,but even there the market is select.

Yes, I think that's the point that Kessler is trying to make...
 
Yes, great point. The hobby of high end audio involves music, which generates spellbinding emotions. Anything that has the potential to increase those emotions - at whatever cost we can afford - will likely buy better gear to get to the next level of realism, which can possibly generate even more of those emotions...

Caesar, If anybody owns the "anti high end" system it's me. I haven't bought a major piece of equipment in 27 years and 35+ also. Is my system capable of high end sound,i think it qualifies. Not a cut on anybody who spends to improve their systems. I just think there is a road less traveled if one chooses to take that path.
 
Who's delusional here? If you think the high end is a luxury market....then the high end is dead. The proof is the low attendance at shows,where most people here already have systems that for the most part are satisfactory. The customer base in America is from 50 to 65, young people can't even leave home. The reality is it's a niche market that grows smaller everyday. Asia might be the exception,but even there the market is select.

Not in Europe. Recent shows in several countries were a success, crowded rooms including many young people.
 
Caesar, If anybody owns the "anti high end" system it's me. I haven't bought a major piece of equipment in 27 years and 35+ also. Is my system capable of high end sound,i think it qualifies. Not a cut on anybody who spends to improve their systems. I just think there is a road less traveled if one chooses to take that path.

Amen,
I think we all want to know more about that path...And I also think that beyond the uber-expensive, if one likes the sound of a Wilson, Magico, Vivid, MBL, etc., there is a cheaper model that those in upper-middle class can afford or realistically aspire to afford...
 

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