Dereneville - linear scanning of the grooves

Jan 26, 2014
84
9
8
Milano Italy
#43
I listened the first combination in Munich MOC 2018 with Tedeska cartridge.
Difference between the Derenville and SME was important even if on SME a more expensive cartridge was used.
:)
 
Jul 24, 2014
126
7
18
Oxfordshire
#44
Delighted to see this.
As an old bloke who worked on engineering record players in the 1970s but stopped to work in F1 racing I have found it depressing to read about "advances" on tone arms which have actually been variations on same-old, normally using static parameters for a dynamic device :(
This is a proper modern bit of engineering to do the right thing. I have been using a Goldmund T3f for over 20 years and this is the first arm I have seen which makes sense to me since production of the T3f stopped, and all this newer technology which wasn't available before.
Bravo! €30k looks good value compared to a lot of what I see.
 

Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
74
123
33
Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
#46
Thanks for the pictures Bob.

That was in Munich at the High End show 2018
Together with Thöress Amplifiers and Tedeska Pickups it was a very successful event.
Michael Fremer also visited us on the first day. He was visibly impressed. :)

P1150745.JPG-k.JPG

kind regards, Rainer
 

AdamZ

New Member
Mar 23, 2017
15
4
3
Germanny
#47
Maybe it should have a Changing Magazin like a
CNC Machine. That means
you chose another Pickup an the Arm pick it up from the magazin.
Elektronic changes setup. Thats it.
(Call me Jules Verne)
 
Likes: Derainer

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,103
336
83
Northern NY
#49
A fantastic feat of engineering it appears. I would be too nervous and stressed using a complicated and fragile aerospace arm instrument such as this. I'm sticking wih my simple SME's 3012R's and a few Grahams. I can't wait to hear the reports from future owners.
 
Likes: Tango

Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
74
123
33
Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
#50
Oh, I can reassure you. It's very easy to use and really stable enough. It's all tried and tested components.
I think that some rotary tonearms are more sensitive and can fail faster.

Another good thing is that it is completely maintenance-free. There is nothing to pay attention to.

I have an older customer who can see very badly. He can no longer see the grooves on the record.
With my linear tonearm he is very happy again. And he is sure that he will not damage his vinyl.

So no reason to shy away.:) You can believe me. Once the tonearm is calibrated, you can't do anything wrong.

Rainer
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2014
126
7
18
Oxfordshire
#52
A fantastic feat of engineering it appears. I would be too nervous and stressed using a complicated and fragile aerospace arm instrument such as this. I'm sticking wih my simple SME's 3012R's and a few Grahams. I can't wait to hear the reports from future owners.
I have been using a similar concept of arm but much older engineering without mishap for nearly 30 years.
This with its much more modern control system should be fine. I have plenty of pivoting arms (I was involved in the business in the 1970s) and none of them are as safe to use as this will be.
I can understand a reluctance to buy because of the cost though...
 

Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
74
123
33
Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
#53
Thanks for asking, Bob.

I personally deliver each tonearm and record player to the customer.
After the calibration (12-10-7 inch, left + center) I do a little training with the customer
until everything is perfect and he is safe. That also explains the price.

After that the customer doesn't need me anymore*. Also not for changing the pickup.
*Unless he wants to share a good whisky, or a glass wine with me. ;)

Cheers,
Rainer
 

Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
74
123
33
Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
#55
Hi E.
Our LT arm is actively controlled. The ones you mentioned are passive arms.
With all these passive LT-arms the small filigree needle has to do all the work of the feed.
It has to push the masses of the tonearm and all the tubes and cables.
The cables are made very thin to reduce the resistance. However, this can lead to radio interference.

Our tonearm, on the other hand, has shielded balanced high-end audio cables with XLR connectors.
The tonearm is basically built like a rotary tonearm. The pivot point is actively guided and driven along.

The high precision distance laser monitors the 90 degree angle 100 times per second.
It permanently reports to the electronic control, which monitors the angle of rotation
always remains constant with 90°.

The filigree needle lies in the groove only with the specified support weight.
There is no lateral force at all on the groove flanks.

Please have a look at the graphic in my 2nd article.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/dereneville-linear-scanning-of-the-grooves.28801/

With our principle of active linear scanning we can give the tonearm itself sufficient mass.
An MC system with low compliance can get all the information out of the groove - even the deepest bass in music.

I miss this excellent sampling of the very low frequencies in many passive LT systems.
They can't reproduce this because they have too little mass due to their construction.

I hope I was able to answer your question satisfactorily.

regards Rainer
 
Last edited:

airbearing

Active Member
May 2, 2012
171
28
28
Munich - Germany
#56
Thanks Rainer,
It is true that with the passive arms you might have radio interference if you do not take care on shielding etc.
On the other hand with the active arms you have a lot of active parts having impact on the arm tube and on the needle (energy transfer).
I remember the Goldmund arm, which was really insufficient. I had it and sold it.
Active arms control one aspect of the scanning but maybe also opening a handful of other issues on tracking.
How many times have we seen the Thales improving it’s design? It is always a compromise.
Nevertheless your design is very interesting.

Best
E.

www.audiocirc.com
 

Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
74
123
33
Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
#57
.....with the active arms you have a lot of active parts having impact on the arm tube and on the needle (energy transfer).
......
Active arms control one aspect of the scanning but maybe also opening a handful of other issues on tracking.
Yeah, you're right, we know all these problems.
But we have all solved them perfectly. And it took almost five years for development.
I also wrote that in my story.

Today we are happy to present an active LT arm that plays far away from Goldmund and other LT arms.
To date we have five very satisfied customers. And there will be more.
But we only build six of these LT arms a year. And we have limited them to 24 pieces.

And once again: the operation is really child's play.
All components are also used in industry and have proven themselves many times over.
So there is no reason to shy away from it.
When the new LT arm is ready I will make a short video to show how easy it is.

You live in Munich - why don't you take a flight to Paderborn and visit me - I cordially invite you here.
I will also pick you up at the airport, if you wish. Afterwards you can honestly report to the users here.

kind regards, Rainer
 
Likes: NorthStar
Feb 8, 2011
21,909
594
113
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
#60
Quite impressive that video above. Some romance is missing in that industrial robotic world ...
And from 4:44 with the two humans being turned upside down and around; headache and stomachache. They need to cut down on noise too.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing